OFFTOPIC: Kurds as Indo-Europeans & Indo-European haplogroups

Templar said:
The phenotype of East Slavs isn't East Asian at all. All the supposed Mongoloid facial features are the result of Indo-European ancestry. Indo-Europeans had wide cheeks, and roundish faces. But they probably didn't have the Mongoloid eyelids. Who else is exactly like this? Balts, Slavs, and Celts.
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There is mongoloid influence in eastern slavS, you can see that in their phenotypes. However this is mostly in the east-baltid type phenotype.
 
Templar said:
The phenotype of East Slavs isn't East Asian at all. All the supposed Mongoloid facial features are the result of Indo-European ancestry. Indo-Europeans had wide cheeks, and roundish faces. But they probably didn't have the Mongoloid eyelids. Who else is exactly like this? Balts, Slavs, and Celts.
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About which proto-IE-ans are you talking about? They found some proto-Slavic (Russian) human remnants in Eastern Russian, but nobody is saying that they were proto-Indo-Europeans. Some Balts even don't speak an Indo-European language, lol. But a Finno-Ugric language. That those folks are the real Indo-European is the biggest joke ever, lol! I mean they don't even speak an Indo-European language... :rolleyes: :LOL:
 
Goga said:
About which proto-IE are you talking about? They found some proto-Slavic human remnants in Eastern Russian, but nobody is saying that they were proto-Indo-Europeans. Some Balts even don't speak an Indo-European language, lol. But a Finno-Ugric language. That those folks are the real Indo-European is the biggest joke ever, lol! I mean they don't even speak an Indo-European language... :rolleyes: :LOL:
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Very true.
 
Lol Kurds aren't all hairy and aren't gracile like their neighbours. Alot of Kurds are actually robust. In Northern Kurdistan(Turkey) Kurds are mostly of Alpnie or Irano-Alpine stock, usually fairer skinned but darker haired and eyed. In the southern-eastern and eastern part of Kurdistan(Iranian), usually Kurds there are more persistantly Iranid and generally slightly taller than their neighbours. They also have higher frequencies of light eyes and hair.
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You are using outdated terminology like "Iranid", and "Aplid". They were created within the context of racist Germanic superiority theories. Yes Kurds do have some Indo-European traits, but not nearly as much Europeans do. The Middle East was highly populated, an invasion by nomads could not have changed the phenotype of the native people as much as it could in a place like Europe (where hunter-gatherers mostly lived).
 
Templar said:
You are using outdated terminology like "Iranid", and "Aplid". They were created within the context of racist Germanic superiority theories. Yes Kurds do have some Indo-European traits, but not nearly as much Europeans do. The Middle East was highly populated, an invasion by nomads could not have changed the phenotype of the native people as much as it could in a place like Europe (where hunter-gatherers mostly lived).
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Alpine and Iranid isn't "out-dated", Iranid(dolicephalic, hooked nosed, Meduim to tall in height, eastern Iranids usually refined, whilst western Iranids generally more robust). If it is outdated it doesn't explain why it is present in the middle-east. And Alpines are common all over Europe(Short faced, brachephalic, concave nosed).
 
About which proto-IE are you talking about? They found some proto-Slavic human remnants in Eastern Russian, but nobody is saying that they were proto-Indo-Europeans. Some Balts even don't speak an Indo-European language, lol. But a Finno-Ugric language. That those folks are the real Indo-European is the biggest joke ever, lol! I mean they don't even speak an Indo-European language...
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What are you talking about? Mongoloid eyelids are very rare among Balts and Slavs. Have you ever visited Belarus, Poland, Lithuania, etc?
 
Templar said:
You are using outdated terminology like "Iranid", and "Aplid". They were created within the context of racist Germanic superiority theories. Yes Kurds do have some Indo-European traits, but not nearly as much Europeans do. The Middle East was highly populated, an invasion by nomads could not have changed the phenotype of the native people as much as it could in a place like Europe (where hunter-gatherers mostly lived).
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No, modern North European DNA is very close to ancient native North European DNA, close to native paleolithic Europeans (who were partly Mongoloid).

Do not believe everything what racist Turks, Arabs, Assyrians, Armenians write about Kurds. They hate Kurds, spread propaganda about them and deny their existence. They clame Kurdish homeland and if Kurds don't exist it's esier for them to grab that
 
Alpine and Iranid isn't "out-dated", Iranid(dolicephalic, hooked nosed, Meduim to tall in height, eastern Iranids usually refined, whilst western Iranids generally more robust). If it is outdated it doesn't explain why it is present in the middle-east. And Alpines are common all over Europe(Short faced, brachephalic, concave nosed).
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The terms were recruited before the advent of genetics. Now we know why groups have certain features and others don't

Middle Eastern people have a phenotype suited to living in arid conditions (long nose, tanned skin, hairiness (to keep you warm during the desert nights), etc). Indo-Europeans had wide cheeks and short stature to retain heat in their cold surroundings, a small nose to avoid frost-bite, and a lack of body hair so that the hairs don't freeze.
 
Do not believe everything what racist Turks, Arabs, Assyrians, Armenians write about Kurds. They hate Kurds, spread propaganda about them and deny their existence.
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I haven't read any of that, i'm only looking at the evidence present.

No, modern North European DNA is very close to ancient native North European DNA, close to native paleolithic Europeans (who were partly Mongoloid).
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Cro-Magnons were NOT part Mongoloid. There was no Mongoloid influence in Europe 30,000 years ago. It is relatively recent. All the evidence shows that the Mongoloid component in Fins and the surrounding people, is relatively recent.
 
Templar said:
I haven't read any of that, i'm only looking at the evidence present.


Cro-Magnons were NOT part Mongoloid. There was no Mongoloid influence in Europe 30,000 years ago. It is relatively recent. All the evidence shows that the Mongoloid component in Fins and the surrounding people, is relatively recent.
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Please, show me your evidence on proto-IE speakers. I want to see it. Please share it with me. :rolleyes:

No, Mongoloid / East Asian DNA in NorthEuropeans is very old.

http://dienekes.blogspot.nl/2012/11/alder-estimates-of-east-eurasian.html

http://dienekes.blogspot.nl/2012/10/the-indo-european-invasion-of-baltic.html
 
This is from a research article about the ethnogenesis of Finns:
According to the traditional migration theory basedprimarily on the linguists’ family tree model and estimated dates
of linguistic divergences, the Finno-Ugrians (the Baltic-Finns
and Saami/Lapps) arrived in the Baltic region only about three
thousand years ago from the Proto-Uralic homeland in the east
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Templar said:
The terms were recruited before the advent of genetics. Now we know why groups have certain features and others don't

Middle Eastern people have a phenotype suited to living in arid conditions (long nose, tanned skin, hairiness (to keep you warm during the desert nights), etc). Indo-Europeans had wide cheeks and short stature to retain heat in their cold surroundings, a small nose to avoid frost-bite, and a lack of body hair so that the hairs don't freeze.
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Your using "Middle-easterner" as a single racial term. Which is just silly. That is like lumping all Europeans the same. Well we do have some general ideas why phenotypes and how they could of formed, no one is stating it is a result of genetics. Haplogroups aren't something that should dictate that.
If you have been to the west asia or Kurdistan you will realise there are very diverse phenotypes, but mostly Iranids are quite persistant. Highlander Kurds are usually depigmented Iranids, they developed hook noses and deep set eyes due to the cold temparture in the winter. And the Medes probably did possess light types aswell, so that contributed. Funnily enough long high ridged noses develop because of the cold, that is why alot of Kurds from my clan possess this feature.
 
No, Mongoloid / East Asian DNA in NorthEuropeans is very old.
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Your link doesn't prove anything.
 
Funnily enough long high ridged noses develop because of the cold, that is why alot of Kurds from my clan possess this feature.
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Then how come nearly every people on the planet who live in a cold environment, have small snub noses?

Your using "Middle-easterner" as a single racial term. Which is just silly. That is like lumping all Europeans the same.
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The Middle-East was diverse before the agricultural revolution. The few groups that first developed it, overwhelmed their hunter-gather neighbors, and this resulted in a fairly uniform one ethnic appearance.

Highlander Kurds are usually depigmented Iranids
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They are depigmented due to admixture with Indo-Europeans (who are pale).
 
Templar said:
The phenotype of East Slavs isn't East Asian at all. All the supposed Mongoloid facial features are the result of Indo-European ancestry. Indo-Europeans had wide cheeks, and roundish faces. But they probably didn't have the Mongoloid eyelids. Who else is exactly like this? Balts, Slavs, and Celts.
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are you sure?

Tocharian mummies the opposite,

I think you connecting the alpine race, which also had straight hair, with IE,
although the mummies and the tombs show another phenotype, curly (not grape) hair, and thin faces, and no wide cheeks,
 
This is what I got from m dodecad results:
0.10% Siberian
0.47% Amerindian
0.00% West_African
0.00% Palaeo_African
18.90% Southwest_Asian
0.17% East_Asian
19.75% Mediterranean
0.72% Australasian
0.57% Arctic
48.93% West_Asian
4.15% North_European
5.66% South_Asian
0.58% East_African
 
Templar said:
Your link doesn't prove anything.
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Hg. N1c1 in NorthEast Europe is native to that region. In most places there it's more than 40%. And it's not really an early proto-Indo-European marker, isn't it? Another FACT.

Once agian, please show me FACTS!
 
Highlander Kurds are usually depigmented Iranids
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I am actually. I think that what people call "Alpines" and "East Balts" are actually both Indo-Europeans.

although the mummies and the tombs show another phenotype, light curly hair, and thin faces, and no wide cheeks,
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Actually I heard they had "somewhat Mongoloid" (which could be a reference to their wide faces) features. I will try to find the link to where I read that.

But even if they did have thin faces and curly hair, it could have been from mixing with Middle-Easterners on their way East?
 
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