Origin and DNA of Turks

[Sile]

The name of the tribe of Mo-tu(3th-2th centuries BC), the founder of the Xiongnu Hunnic state, is described as "Tu-ku (T’u-ko)" in ancient Chinese documents. "Tu-ku (T’u-ko)" is equal to the word "Turk", it means that this shows that the fact is that Huns are of Turkish origin. Also another very solid fact is the content of an ancient Persian source in the year 420 AD, whom describes the Altaic populations of around Central Asia as "Türk Hun". Also it is a fact that Efrâsiyâb(=Alp Er Tunga) the founder of the Scythian/Sakha state is of Turkish origin. Also nowadays Yakutia/Sakha Republic is a modern fact that Scythians are of Turkish origin. Look at the Divani Lugati Türk written in the 11th century by Mahmood Kashgari that confirms that Efrâsiyâb(Iranian-Turanian khan) is of Turkish origin. Also when you read the writings of Priscus(5th century AD)(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priscus), he constantly describes the Huns as "Scythian", he also names other populations as "Scythian". This shows that there are a lot of other nations during the 5th centuries whom are of Turkish Scythian origin.

Read the contents of the ancient sources provided at the following link to see that i am right: http://www.islamansiklopedisi.info/dia/pdf/c41/c410268.pdf




This statement obviously proofs that you are commiting a hate crime against Turks, and are not providing any kind of historical fact based on real historical sources. If you look at modern Anatolian village names, you see that most of them have their origins in 4th-5th century Hunnic tribes, that migrated and settled within the East Roman empire, and became later Christians. A majority of modern Anatolian "Rum's"(Roman citizens), are of Hunnic origin, and these populations have allied with the Selcukids. All in all, Turks were in Anatolia already in 4th-5th century AD. And not to forget about the Sumerians that spoke a Turkish language, this is almost 8000 years ago from now, so Turks lived in Türkiye 8000 years ago!

And know that the British and their slaves were not tired or exhausted after the WW1, they got beated by us Turks, and run away from Anatolian lands like cowards.

Look at what William David Upshaw says about Atatürk at this link http://www.turktoresi.com/viewtopic.php?f=139&t=7187:



In short he says that Mustafa Kemal Atatürk has dictated his terms at the threaty of Lausanne to the British, so strong and smart as Timur and Genghis Khan. It means that the War of Independence was a huge and first lost of the British empire that was ended in the supreme victory of the Turks.

your a dreamer, the indigenous people of anatolia where not turks , the hittities, lycians, lidians, trojans, and the rest are not turkic

the 4th and 5th century you speak of was the arrival of the turkmen into eastern iran, they still did not reach modern Turkey until the 10th century AD.

whatever one speaks does not designate ethnicity..................you are speaking to me in English, are your English!!!!

 

[Aberdeen]

Repeat the same propaganda to young students for years, and it becomes the only "truth" in their heads. What Isbara says seems so ridiculous to the rest of the world, but it is the only "logical" understanding in his head. These views are easily reinforced and greatly potentiated by our nationalistic nature.
Now, is it possible to even plant a seed of a doubt in his hard head?

It's unlikely we can plant a seed of doubt in the mind of a true believer who has spent years absorbing a comprehensive belief system and who has no doubt been warned against having an open mind. But other people who haven't been brainwashed might read what such a person writes and, if they haven't read much archeology, history or linguistics, might believe the nonsense that was created for purposes of hypernationalism. If we can point out the flaws in the propaganda so that innocent people don't accept it uncritically but instead decide to do their own reading in order to decide for themselves who's right about the issue, we haven't wasted our time in conversing with someone whose mind is already made up. I think that warning other people to ask questions about what someone is saying is all we can accomplish in such cases.

 

[isbara]

In mean time you ignored scientific consensus of modern researchers claiming that Summer is a language isolate, not related to other existing languages.

What i can say is that you did not read my posts, therefore, you are not to be taken serious, you yourself cannot come with any logical argument, all you can do is to comment insults. The truth will not be ignored by disrespectful people that want to manipulate the truth because of the hate crime they are trying to provoke. I gave an example of modern researcher Muazzez İlmiye Çığ, her book is published in 2013, she has an experience of almost 80 years on Sumerian history, she is a respected internationally known Sumerolog. She herself said that the Sumerians are linguistically proven to be of Turkish origin, and that the Sumerians called theirselves Kenger, and that the word "Sumer" was used in later times. Kenger is a medieval name that is used by Turkish tribes from Central Asia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muazzez_İlmiye_Çığ

We would have a different discussion if you came here and said " Hey guys, I found this german scientist, who claim that Sumerian was a Turkish language, I think it probably was". It would be a typical statement of curious open mind. Instead you came here and claimed "It is the Truth, because a german scientist said that".

I tell you something, you and people like(Turk haters) you are obviously not GOD, so the truth is the truth, i have written several arguments whom are defending my points, you could not write counter arguments, instead you choose to make disrespectful comments, and send me a private message in which you gave me an infraction. Is this your way of finding the truth? Ban and punish the comments of populations you hate? This could only be concluded as a simple hate crime, in which you are changing the subject by making the discussion more personal, i find it very pathetic.

 

[isbara]

Did you read this latest paper on IE language? What do you think?

Again you did not read my previous post, and dont know about the content of the link you have written in your own post.
Go to the link you mentioned, http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...007#post449007, in here you will find the paper you mentioned at this link: http://www.annualreviews.org/doi/full/10.1146/annurev-linguist-030514-124812.

In my previous post #38 i was obviously quoting on a couple of texts written in that article, based on that i asked you two questions, but you seem to not know the contents of your own suggested article. I think this discussion is going to a lower level, because it is not about the subject anymore, please dont waste my time with unnecessary comments.

 

[isbara]

your a dreamer, the indigenous people of anatolia where not turks , the hittities, lycians, lidians, trojans, and the rest are not turkic

Read the text at the following link: http://www.astroset.com/bireysel_gelisim/ancient/a31.htm

In order to show the connection between Hittite and the Altaic languages we need concrete examples obtained from written original texts. There is a book published in 1980 by Ahmet Unal discussing some Hittite phrases (4). We find many Sumerian words in these sentences, which could either be borrowed from the ancient Sumerian language of Mesopotamia or could also be independently related to the Asiatic Proto-language. Here is one example:

Dingir-lim : My God. “Dingir” meaning “God” in Sumerian, already discussed in chapter 22, Egyptian Deities. “-lim” is a suffix still used in Turkish as a possessive pronoun.

Kililu = Gilim : Wreath or Headdress. “Kyl” means “hair” or rather a single thread of hair in Turkish. But “kylly” means “mixed with threads of hair” (-ly is already mentioned above) and therefore the Hittite word Kililu or Gilim is an appropriate definition for a wreath worn on the head.

Lu-Sang-a: To the holy priest. The first syllable stands for “holy” and is found in Turkish as “ulu”, already mentioned in Chapter 29, The bird symbolism. Sang means “respectful, important person” and is found in Japanese as “san” and in Turkish as “sayın”. The same meaning is found in “saint”. The suffix “-a” meaning “to the” is still used in Turkish. Therefore, Lusanga means “to the saint”.

We see that Hittite is an agglutinant language similar to Altaic languages containing several suffixes still existing in modern Turkish. Such a sentence formation is not found in most Indo-European languages. These three words above are enough to explain an original sentence obtained from a Hittite text:

the 4th and 5th century you speak of was the arrival of the turkmen into eastern iran, they still did not reach modern Turkey until the 10th century AD.

You obviously have limited knowledge about Turkish history. The history of Turkmens starts during the time of the Selcukid(11th-13th centuries), and maybe a century earlier(10th century) during the Oghuz Yabgu state. The 4th and 5th centuries are about the Western Huns that migrated heavily into Western Eurasia. First read the texts written in the 5th century Roman diplomat about Western Huns, and then come discuss this subject with me.

http://www.academia.edu/7733887/The_Fragmentary_History_of_Priscus_Attila_the_Huns_and_the_Romans
http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/5190547.Priscus
http://www.amazon.com/The-Fragmentary-History-Priscus-Christian/dp/1935228145

whatever one speaks does not designate ethnicity..................you are speaking to me in English, are your English!!!!

I did not understand this comment, please explain what you mean.

 

[isbara]

It's unlikely we can plant a seed of doubt in the mind of a true believer who has spent years absorbing a comprehensive belief system and who has no doubt been warned against having an open mind. But other people who haven't been brainwashed might read what such a person writes and, if they haven't read much archeology, history or linguistics, might believe the nonsense that was created for purposes of hypernationalism. If we can point out the flaws in the propaganda so that innocent people don't accept it uncritically but instead decide to do their own reading in order to decide for themselves who's right about the issue, we haven't wasted our time in conversing with someone whose mind is already made up. I think that warning other people to ask questions about what someone is saying is all we can accomplish in such cases.

Like i said earlier, again your post consists off text which is not related to the subject we are discussing about. Talking about other side effects and insulting me wont give you any kind of positive bargain in the discussion. It will only prove to outside readers that you dont have the knowledge to discuss the situation with me. You cannot convince anyone like this, i tell you this in a friendly manner.

 

[LeBrok]

I tell you something, you and people like(Turk haters) you are obviously not GOD, so the truth is the truth, i have written several arguments whom are defending my points, you could not write counter arguments, instead you choose to make disrespectful comments, and send me a private message in which you gave me an infraction. Is this your way of finding the truth? Ban and punish the comments of populations you hate? This could only be concluded as a simple hate crime, in which you are changing the subject by making the discussion more personal, i find it very pathetic.

This is the post you got infraction for:

PKK could not even defend Aynel Arab(Kobani), and your terrorist militants ran away like 5 year old girls from ISIS, and guess what the Turkish Army accepted and defended these cowards into our borders. Tell me something, how can a terrorist group that cannot even defend a village, manage such a big country. To do this, you need to have an ancient tradition of managing a state. Is there even one independent Kurdish state in the last 1000 years? And how can you trust the US that used Saddam that killed thousands of Kurds(Halabja chemical attack)? The US is using the Kurds and will throw them into the trash clan after they are finished using you guys.

Poor innocent you and I am the one full of hate, lol.

 

[LeBrok]

Again you did not read my previous post, and dont know about the content of the link you have written in your own post.
Go to the link you mentioned, http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...007#post449007, in here you will find the paper you mentioned at this link: http://www.annualreviews.org/doi/full/10.1146/annurev-linguist-030514-124812.

In my previous post #38 i was obviously quoting on a couple of texts written in that article, based on that i asked you two questions, but you seem to not know the contents of your own suggested article. I think this discussion is going to a lower level, because it is not about the subject anymore, please dont waste my time with unnecessary comments.

Sorry, I wasn't too precise expressing my thoughts. What do you think about IE and PIE language family now? Is it real?

 

[isbara]

This is the post you got infraction for:
Poor innocent you and I am the one full of hate, lol.

PKK is a terrorist organization created by the US state that killed 30.000 of our people(including Kurds) since the 1980's, they can only cowardly wait and ambush people in the back. These are all truth i have written. So what youre doing is openly supporting an international terrorist organization, is this your way of finding the truth or discussing the truth by banning forum members because they tell the truth about internationally acknowledged terrorist people that dont hesitate to kill babies and innocent women and kill soldiers in the back? Now everyone who reads this topic, understand what kind of monster lies behind your mask. Even if you delete my messages, i am going to publish this discussion on my own forum, dont worry about that, people need to see this kind of non scientific terrorist supporters. The PKK could not defend the Aynel Arab village, and sought help of the Turkish soldiers whom they dont hesitate to kill in the back. Again, this situation shows that how noble the Turkish Army is, for defending the enemy if they ask for help. Yes, the US is using the PKK and like i said earlier, Saddam was also a puppet of the US, and the US intelligence CIA was the real owner of the massacre done on Kurds in 1988. Kurds need to understand this, you cannot trust the US, they are using you, and if they are finished with you or even think a bit they dont need you a bit, they will throw you away, i was trying to warn my Kurdish brothers not be a fool and stop being a slave and pion of the US CIA.

 

[isbara]

Sorry, I wasn't too precise expressing my thoughts. What do you think about IE and PIE language family now? Is it real?

read post #38

 

[LeBrok]

read post #38

Nothing answering my question. I remember few posts earlier you were doubtful about existence of common IE language in the past, or even existence of IE family of languages. What do you think now after reading this article?

 

[LeBrok]

What i can say is that you did not read my posts, therefore, you are not to be taken serious, you yourself cannot come with any logical argument, all you can do is to comment insults. The truth will not be ignored by disrespectful people that want to manipulate the truth because of the hate crime they are trying to provoke. I gave an example of modern researcher Muazzez İlmiye Çığ, her book is published in 2013, she has an experience of almost 80 years on Sumerian history, she is a respected internationally known Sumerolog. She herself said that the Sumerians are linguistically proven to be of Turkish origin, and that the Sumerians called theirselves Kenger, and that the word "Sumer" was used in later times. Kenger is a medieval name that is used by Turkish tribes from Central Asia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muazzez_İlmiye_Çığ

As I suspected, the two writers live in Turkey and hard to consider them objective. I don't have time to read their works, so my point of view will be based on scientific consensus that Sumerian is a language isolate.

Anyway it doesn't even matter if Sumerian was kind of Turkic language or not. There is no direct connection and ascendancy of Turks from Sumerians. Sumerians existed 4 thousand years before Turks showed up on a map. There is no known continuity between them both. On top of it we have direct written and archeological evidence about movement and conquest of Turks, who came from Central Asia.

What do you think about this investigation done by your own countryman:
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...atures-and-admixture-is-high?highlight=turkey

 

[isbara]

Nothing answering my question. I remember few posts earlier you were doubtful about existence of common IE language in the past, or even existence of IE family of languages. What do you think now after reading this article?

then you have problems in the interpreting and understanding. Its ridiculous to repeat myself, you text is there, if you are interested read or else not read it.

 

[LeBrok]

PKK is a terrorist organization created by the US state that killed 30.000 of our people(including Kurds) since the 1980's, they can only cowardly wait and ambush people in the back. These are all truth i have written. So what youre doing is openly supporting an international terrorist organization, is this your way of finding the truth or discussing the truth by banning forum members because they tell the truth about internationally acknowledged terrorist people that dont hesitate to kill babies and innocent women and kill soldiers in the back? Now everyone who reads this topic, understand what kind of monster lies behind your mask. Even if you delete my messages, i am going to publish this discussion on my own forum, dont worry about that, people need to see this kind of non scientific terrorist supporters. The PKK could not defend the Aynel Arab village, and sought help of the Turkish soldiers whom they dont hesitate to kill in the back. Again, this situation shows that how noble the Turkish Army is, for defending the enemy if they ask for help. Yes, the US is using the PKK and like i said earlier, Saddam was also a puppet of the US, and the US intelligence CIA was the real owner of the massacre done on Kurds in 1988. Kurds need to understand this, you cannot trust the US, they are using you, and if they are finished with you or even think a bit they dont need you a bit, they will throw you away, i was trying to warn my Kurdish brothers not be a fool and stop being a slave and pion of the US CIA.

And of course you must have your scientific proofs to support that. Keep up your hyper-nationalistic attitude and degrading other ethnicities and you will have just your blog to tell your "truths" to the world.

 

[LeBrok]

then you have problems in the interpreting and understanding. Its ridiculous to repeat myself, you text is there, if you are interested read or else not read it.

I want your opinion not the cited text. Perhaps you should ask first ministry of turkish propaganda what to think about this new information. We already noticed that critical thinking wasn't your forte. However, you excelled in the mantra of recycled propaganda, the beacon of turkish nationalistic truth.

 

[isbara]

As I suspected, the two writers live in Turkey and hard to consider them objective. I don't have time to read their works, so my point of view will be based on scientific consensus that Sumerian is a language isolate.

Anyway it doesn't even matter if Sumerian was kind of Turkic language or not. There is no direct connection and ascendancy of Turks from Sumerians. Sumerians existed 4 thousand years before Turks showed up on a map. There is no known continuity between them both. On top of it we have direct written and archeological evidence about movement and conquest of Turks, who came from Central Asia.

What do you think about this investigation done by your own countryman:
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...atures-and-admixture-is-high?highlight=turkey

1. Sumerians lived from around 5500 and 4000 BC until around 2300 BC.

2. We know that the Hitites are the descendents of the Sumerians/Kengers. Hitites lived from around 1600 BC until around 900 BC.

3. Huns(200 BC) and Scythians lived from around 900 BC until today(modern Turks).

4. Professor Hommel determines that the Sumerians migrated from Central Asia to Anatolian regions about 5000 BC. Read the text at the following link for detailed information: http://www.turktoresi.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2392

Eski Önasya Tarihi uzmanlarından Fr. Hommel, Sümerler'i tamamıyla bir Türk kavmi olarak kabul etmekte, Orta Asya'dan M.Ö. 5000'lerde kopan Türk gruplarının Önasya'ya geldiklerini ve Sümerler'i teşkil ettiklerini ileri sürmektedir. Sümer dilinden 350 kelimeyi Türkçe ile açıklayan Fr. Hommel'in bu iddialı tezine karşı V. Christian ile Benno Landsberger daha ihtiyatlı davranmakta, Sümerce'de Türkçe ile birlikte diğer Ural-Altay kavimlerinin de dil hatıraları olduğunu kabul etmektedirler.

5. All modern Eurasian cultures are derived from the Sumerian civilization. For example, why do you think the The double-headed eagle is used in the flags of the Huns, Romans, Germans, and other Eurasian ancient nations? Because they have their root all in the Sumerians. And the Sumerians spoke obviously a Turkish(or Hunnish or Scythian/Sakha, whatever you like to call it) language. So, Turks are the ancestors of all modern Eurasian nations! I advise you to also read the book of Gene D. Matlock called "What Strange Mystery Unites the Turkish Nations, India, Catholicism, and Mexico?: A Concise But Detailed History of Things Divine and Earthly"
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/...Turkish_Nations_India_Catholicism_and_Mexico_
http://www.scribd.com/doc/28325924/...-Detailed-History-of-Things-Divine-and#scribd
http://www.amazon.com/Strange-Mystery-Turkish-Nations-Catholicism/dp/0595394469

And please read the text at this page: http://viewzone2.com/ancientturksx.html

THE SUMERIANS WERE TURKS.

Many people find it difficult to accept that even the Akkad or Sumerians were Turkish. The Akkads (Sumerians) were Phoenicians. known also as Kads, Khatti, etc., Originally, they were a Turkish (Kur, Tur, Tul, Tol, etc.) people from what our Bible calls Eden, the Akkadian word for the Steppes (Central Asia). Before the Great Flood, the Steppes or Eden was regarded as an earthly paradise. However, when the Great Flood inundated what are now the Altai, Tannu (Tiva, Teva, or Tuva), and Khakassia Turkish republics, the survivors had to build their civilization all over again. Many fled to what is now India, becoming Indians themselves, joining the eastern part of the Northern and southern hemisphere as a single nation.

Gene D. Matlock, is also not Turkish and his book dates 2006.

 

[isbara]

I want your opinion not the cited text. Perhaps you should ask first ministry of turkish propaganda what to think about this new information. We already noticed that critical thinking wasn't your forte. However, you excelled in the mantra of recycled propaganda, the beacon of turkish nationalistic truth.

My opinion is written in that post, and it is obvious that you are a CIA propagandist, and we know how the US killed more than 2 millions in Iraq and Afghanistan during the past 13 years(2003-2015). So, you keep on performing your CIA propaganda, i will keep on telling the truth!

 

[LeBrok]

1. Sumerians lived from around 5500 and 4000 BC until around 2300 BC.

2. We know that the Hitites are the descendents of the Sumerians/Kengers. Hitites lived from around 1600 BC until around 900 BC.

Garbage. Hittites were Indo-Europeans, Sumerians were not. In both cases we can read their scribbles and we know they were not talking the same language, not even close.

3. Huns(200 BC) and Scythians lived from around 900 BC until today(modern Turks).

Scythians were Indo-Europeans again, precisely East Iranian tribe. Hun's language is not attested, so we don't have a clue. Perhaps they were from Scythian confederation. Definitely moved from Central Asia into Europe. Later this term was used to describe Mongolians, either by Europeans or Chinese. The last time we hear about Scythians in records is at the end of Roman Empire and onset of Dark Ages.

4. Professor Hommel determines that the Sumerians migrated from Central Asia to Anatolian regions about 5000 BC. Read the text at the following link for detailed information: http://www.turktoresi.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2392

It doesn't matter if they did or not. They didn't speak Indo-European language, therefore couldn't influence Hittite language. There is also a big temporal divide between them too.

Sumerians spoke obviously a Turkish

Whatever, lets say they did, it still doesn't prove direct connection to Sumerian. Why not Kipchak or Khazars, we know they spoke Turkic?

(or Hunnish or Scythian/Sakha, whatever you like to call it) again Scythian language is IE. Turkic is not. I'm yet to hear about Scythians living in Anatolia.

You are jumping through thousands of years, vast territory and many different cultures and languages as it is nothing. You grab snippets of whatever pleases you from every historical point and this give you a big picture of the great Turkish past. The worst part is your assurance in your arguments, not doubt, no hesitation. Dude, it doesn't work this way.

So, Turks are the ancestors of all modern Eurasian nations!

Again, hyper nationalistic propaganda and your emotions are blinding you.

I advise you to also read the book

I advise you to open your eyes.

Turkic tribes before invading Anatolia.

 

[LeBrok]

My opinion is written in that post, and it is obvious that you are a CIA propagandist, and we know how the US killed more than 2 millions in Iraq and Afghanistan during the past 13 years(2003-2015). So, you keep on performing your CIA propaganda, i will keep on telling the truth!

Sure, I've already informed CIA office in Holland to keep an eye on you. Take care.

 

[motzart]

You're CIA? What a coincidence I'm batman