Pharaoh Tutankhamun, Akhenaten and Amenhotep III were R1b

[Knovas]

Ok, it seems the information is truly reliable.

 

[LeBrok]

The question is this: how did Pharaoh Tutankhamun end up with that Y-haplogroup?!

It's intriguing at least. I don't know much about Egyptian history, but I looked up some references and this is what I found.

Tutankhamun (Nebkheperure) 1334 - 1325 - King Tut BC

Around 1500BC there was a big change in Egypt, and be important enough to start a new era called New Kingdom:

THE NEW KINGDOM


EIGHTEENTH DYNASTY
Ahmose (Nebpehtyre) 1539 - 1514 BC
Amenhotep I (Djeserkare) 1514 - 1493 BC
Thutmose I (Akheperkare) 1493 - 1481 BC
Thutmose II (Akheperenre) 1491 - 1479 BC
Hatshepsut (Maatkare) 1473 - 1458 BC
Thutmose III (Menkheperre) 1504 - 1450 BC
Amenhotep II (Akheperure) 1427 - 1392 BC
Thutmose IV (Menkheperure) 1419 - 1386 BC
Amenhotep III (Nebmaatre) 1382 - 1344 BC
Amenhotep IV / Akhenaten 1350 - 1334 BC
Smenkhkare (Ankhkheperure) 1336-1334 BC
Tutankhamun (Nebkheperure) 1334 - 1325 - King Tut BC
Ay (Kheperkheperure) 1325 - 1321 BC
Horemheb (Djeserkheperure) 1323 - 1295 BC

http://www.lost-civilizations.net/ancient-egypt-egyptian-dynasties.html



Expansion of IE were connected with extensive use of horses and chariots.

The chariot, together with the horse itself, was introduced to Egypt by the Hyksos invaders in the 16th century BC and undoubtedly contributed to their military success. In the remains of Egyptian and Assyrian art there are numerous representations of chariots, from which it may be seen with what richness they were sometimes ornamented. The chariots of the Egyptians and Assyrians, with whom the bow was the principal arm of attack, were richly mounted with quivers full of arrows. The Egyptians invented the yoke saddle for their chariot horses in c. 1500 BC. The best preserved examples of Egyptian chariots are the four specimens from the tomb of Tutankhamun.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chariot

Who were the Hyksos that introduced chariots to Egypt?

Traditionally,[who?] only the Fifteenth Dynasty rulers are called Hyksos. The Greek name "Hyksos" was coined by Manetho to identify the Fifteenth Dynasty of Asiatic rulers of northern Egypt. In Egyptian Hyksos means "ruler(s) of foreign countries", however, Manetho mistranslated Hyksos as "Shepherd Kings".


It has been claimed,[12] that new revolutionary methods of warfare ensured the Hyksos the ascendancy in their influx into the new emporia being established in Egypt's delta and at Thebes in support of the Red Sea trade. Herbert E. Winlock describes new military hardware, such as the composite bow, as well as the improved recurve bow and most importantly the horse-drawn war chariot, as well as improved arrowheads, various kinds of swords and daggers, a new type of shield, mailed shirts, and the metal helmet.[12]

I've learned that New Kingdom started at the time when Hyksos were expelled actually. Surprisingly there is no change in royal linage.

There was no distinct break in the line of the royal family between the 17th and 18th dynasties. The historian Manetho, writing much later during the Ptolemaic dynasty, considered the final expulsion of the Hyksos after nearly a century and the restoration of native Egyptian rule over the whole country a significant enough event to warrant the start of a new dynasty.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmose_I

I know it doesn't prove anything, but I hope it has some entertaining value.

 

[Knovas]

Oh, I revised Dienekes' blog and found this post:

iGENEA's King Tut claims

iGENEA is a Swiss ancestry analysis company which I had deservedly mocked a couple of years ago because of its ridiculous claims. In my experience, commercial ancestry analysis outfits are often plagued by either of two problems:

1. They offer too little value, such as a breakdown of an individual into the categories of "Europe", "Asia", and "Africa".
2. They pretend to offer too much value, such as the ability to connect one's Y-chromosome with Old Testament priests, numerous ancient "tribes", or to break down one's genome to a very fine detail that is not commensurate with the power of the DNA evidence they collect (e.g., with the CODIS markers)

iGENEA is a great example of #2.

Now, they have done it again, pretending to be able to link men with a particular R1b1a2haplotype with King Tut. Note that the Y-chromosome of King Tut has never been published, and speculation about it is based on some screencaps from a Discovery Channel documentary that may or may not belong to the Pharaoh:

iGENEA was able to reconstruct the Y-DNA profile of Tutankhamun, his father Akhenaten and his grandfather Amenhotep III with the help of a recording of the Discovery Channel. The astonishing result:
​

Indeed, the whole business of mummy DNA is highly suspect, as Jo Marchant has covered quite comprehensively in Nature News; see also King Tut's DNA in doubt.

The original paper in the JAMA was remarkable for its non-publishing of crucial data necessary to validate the claims within it. This is yet another argument against the flawed peer-review system whose main objective, it seems, is to take in money for journals and dole out prestige to authors, and not to do actual science.

Personally, I'm against most regulation of personal genetics products, unless there is a clear and present medical danger arising from their use: I don't trust government bureaucrats and paternalistic know-it-all scientists to tell us what deserves to be marketed and what does not.

On the other hand, the absence of regulation makes the community's responsibility to speak out against bad products all the more important: such products can only be identified if there is an active and broad group of informed individuals willing to put out the relevant facts out there, and let potential customers decide for themselves.


I don't know what to think now. ¿Was it really clear for you, sparkey, that Tut's Y-DNA it's typical in Europe?

 

[sparkey]

I don't know what to think now. ¿Was it really clear for you, sparkey, that Tut's Y-DNA it's typical in Europe?

I don't know what to think, either, to be honest. Good job finding that Dienekes post, Knovas. I guess I shouldn't assume that iGENEA actually credibly has so many of King Tut's markers. Maciamo did point out earlier, though, that three of the markers actually were published, including DYS393=13. We would expect 12 there if it was the "Armenian modal haplotype" as I had suggested it might be, with 13 usually reflecting European-type R1b. Still, we need to be cautious.

 

[Goga]

Incredible!

I believe that R1b is very tough, talented and adventurous haplogroup.

But I don't understand 1 thing. Why are (were) most South European kings (Spain and France) G2a and Nordic kings R1b. Because in south(west) Europe there's more hg R1b than in north(east) Europe.

 

[koni]

Goga, you must be right, Pharaoh came from the north, see


bsecher.pagesperso-orange.fr/genetique/Busby_R1b%28xL11%29.jpg

Its a map showing the more ancient R1b in europe the L11 distribution. We can see a link from north to south along the amber trade route.

 

[Sennevini]

But I don't understand 1 thing. Why are (were) most South European kings (Spain and France) G2a and Nordic kings R1b. Because in south(west) Europe there's more hg R1b than in north(east) Europe.

Goga, I hope you know that the French and Spanish royal houses are descended
from the Capet dynasty, starting with Hugh Capet, a Frank, and that most other
European royal dynasties also have their origin in Germany?
Therefore it is not recommandable to compare the royal dynasty-DNA to that of the
country which they rule.

 

[bradmichaellittle]

Pharaoh Tutankamun Y-DNA pattern has a significant correlation to "Wettin Man".
This is an amazing discovery!!!
I had discovered that the Y-DNA 16 marker pattern is documented on the iGENEA website.
I then compared it against Wettin Man ..... here is the result. There is a GD = 9 between the two samples (using only 16 markers) ..... however it is actually a lot closer than this as just two markers are responsible for GD = 5 i.e. DYS456 = 15 for King Tut vs 18 for Wettin Man and DYS458 = 16 for King Tut vs 18 for Wettin Man.
These two markers have very high mutation rates ..... so there being a large GD between these two samples for these two markers is fully consistent noting that King Tut ruled in 1332BC vs Wettin Man who is alive today.
Additionally King Tut is R1b1a2 whereas Wettin Man is R1b1a2a1a1a.
The next steps here need to be to have a deeper dive with King Tut's Y-DNA to increase the markers up to 67 markers and get a Deep Clade test as well - so that the comparison between the ancient Wettin line (which dates from Dedi in 950 AD) and King Tut can be fully confirmed.
Importantly, the same Y-DNA result was also found for King Tut's father King Akhenaten and his grandfather King Amenhotep III. Also they had red hair, tufts still exist on the mummified bodies.
More details about Wettin Man are on my webpage and associated facebook account.
Thank you,
Brad (the-kings-son.com)

 

[epoch]

Egypt's 18th dynasty inaugurated the New Kingdom after the Second Intermediate period, when the Hyksos ("foreign rulers") took over power between 1650 and 1570 BCE. It is very possible that the 18th Dynasty was of Hyksos origin, which could be Hittite or of other Indo-European origin. The Hyksos were described as bowmen and cavalrymen wearing the cloaks of many colors associated with the mercenary Mitanni. This strongly suggest an Indo-European origin indeed, as the steppe people were mounted archers, and the Mitanni are of proven IE origin.

Also, the Hyksos worshipped a storm god associated with the Egyptian god Seth. As far as I understand storm and especially thunder gods are strongly associated with Indo-European beliefs.

The Egyptians, according to a papyrus, hated the Hyksos for their worship of this thunder god because Seth is the killer of Osiris in Egyptian mythology and as such wasn't a loved god.

 

[adamo]

The "Hyksos" where middle eastern invaders who would end up as far south as the gates of Egypt (Sinai peninsula), they would have been pre-cursors to the Hittites.

 

[Ike]

The Egyptians have tested autosomal and Y-DNA markers of three Pharaohs of the 18th dynasty : Amenhotep III, his son Akhenaten and grandson Tutankhamun. The aim was to determine the cause of death of Tutankhamun, who died at age 19. It appears to have been malaria.

New, interesting theory.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sidesho...in-a-chariot-crash--scientists-171906351.html

 

[Angela]

New, interesting theory.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sidesho...in-a-chariot-crash--scientists-171906351.html

Thanks for that...the funny comments following the story are great...

 

[Ike]

Yes, some of them very creative

 

[Vedun]

Also, the Hyksos worshipped a storm god associated with the Egyptian god Seth. As far as I understand storm and especially thunder gods are strongly associated with Indo-European beliefs.

The Egyptians, according to a papyrus, hated the Hyksos for their worship of this thunder god because Seth is the killer of Osiris in Egyptian mythology and as such wasn't a loved god.

Seth was nothing else than Osiris himself or Osiris's (opposite) Astral brother in the realm called Nuv or Nut... And Nut is Norse NiflHeim or Slavic NAV (Hell, Astral realm, realm of shadows)... praNav ("OMkara") in Vedas. Osiris was Aser or Vedic Asura ("against Surya"), lord of the Underworld, enemy of Devas (gods)...

His cult was originally almost insignificant as was the cult of Seth (later Satan in Bible), before the original Vedic Egyptian Trinity of Raa (Rama) - Heru (Scythian & Slavic god Hors or Horo) & Hathor (Ostara/Mokosh/Astarte/Ishtar/Semele,...) still at the time of pharaoh "Scorpion". Consequently his father became "Geb", which was a occult transliteration of Vedic Shiva (Geb; Djeb; Djev; Jiva; Shiva) which represents "Light" and his "mother" called Nuv or Nut (read my notes above it), which was representing "Darkness"...

Moses himself was a priest of Osiris. (all so called "Biblical stories about his 'royal egyptian' origin, his life as a mathematician are occult lies, perverted truth; to hide the real truth about the whole stuff behind this "curtain")
http://www.reshafim.org.il/ad/egypt/manetho_hyksos.htm

his real (Egyptian) name was Asarseb (the Greek transliteration became "Osarsiph"), which means OSIRIS's "father" (light, carrier); "devoted to Osiris" (note that the official explanation about "Geb" being ""lame one" is false, to hide his real background). Moses was literally one of the earliest "apostles" to the inverted BRahmanic (=Abrahamic) religions which came from Egypt in many new cults; Christianity, Judaism and Islam (as Christian derivative, invented in Vatican for "pagan" arabs" (already worshiping Allah - allah is much older god than several brainwashed Abrahamic preachers think) (Sabeans(another "offspring" of the people of Shiva, worshiping Asuras ), Meccans, - and as a plan B if the Christianity wouldn't be successful in Russia & Ukraine...) So Nuv (transliteration of Nav; Nifl-Heim; from which also derived later occult form about "Nephilims" (Navins) and Rephaims (=occult version of Vedic Ravanas ("Raphael angel", etc, etc)) and Geb (Shiva) with the snake's head were both rulers over the realm called Patala (Nagaloka) in Vedic scriptures...
Shiva's phallus called Lingashtakam became the Osiris's chopped phallus and consequently the center of the Vatican city at "saint peter's square"

[TABLE="class: gt-baf-table"]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Circumcism in Abrahamic religions is nothing else than an inverted remain of the ancient Shiva's cult...[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

This includes the Islamic "Kaaba" (Cube), where people go around it in inverted direction than Hindus...

So this is the place, where your Abrahamic cults came from... Egypt was nothing else than "Old Jerusalem", this was the place where the Christianity was created out of the cult of "Horus & Osiris", also known as Egyptian KRST; KRST became the new KRSTOS (Χριστός) or "Kristos" (Christ) - Shiva (inverted Osiris (Asura)), human parasite, a demon from the realm of inverted "Duat" (Devet; девять Deus; "Ninth" land of Yggdrasil, realm of gods... taking over the original pantheons and demanding human victims as any Mayan, Aztec reptilian 'gods' of human sacrifice...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped....jpg/1024px-View_from_Pyramide_de_la_luna.jpg

This is the god (Bacchus/Osiris/Asura).. He was born approximatelly 14 500 years ago in Sri Lanka according to some Roman sources (about the origin of Bacchus/Osiris), which was in Vedas described as the land of king & demon "Ravana" (Ramayana story)), before his arrival to India and Egypt...

 

[Tomenable]

Maciamo's Opening Post contains a misinformation - namely a claim that the 18th Dynasty was of Hyksos origin.

This is false, the 18th Dynasty was of native Egyptian origin, the 15th Dynasty were the Hyksos:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifteenth_Dynasty_of_Egypt

The first pharaoh of the 18th Dynasty - Ahmose I - was actually the one who expelled (!) foreign Hyksos rulers:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eighteenth_Dynasty_of_Egypt#Early_Dynasty_XVIII

So if Tutankhamun really had R1b-M269, then it is actually a point against Indo-European origins of this marker.

==================

As for the ethnic identity of the Hyksos who established the 15th Dynasty:

They were either just Semitic-speakers alone, or a multi-ethnic mix of Semites and Hurrians.

Their ruling class could be Indo-Iranian, but evidence for this is very scarce (unlike in case of Hurrian Mitanni).

 

[Angela]

Wow, what brought back this blast from the past?

The last I heard is that the screen shot could have been just a demo. Until the samples are tested by a few labs around the world we're just speculating.

If he was R1b I would think V-88 would be a much better bet, but who knows? I do, however, find it a bit suspicious that Hawass refused to release the results for Tut, but released the ones for Ramesses III.

If the Hyksos of the Fifteenth Dynasty did carry some forms of R1b, why isn't it possible that they sired some descendants who moved up the ranks and eventually emerged as Pharaohs in a later dynasty? That happened a lot in Egypt. Ramesses I, the founder of the great 19th dynasty, was just a military commander, actually born near the Hyksos capital, and rose to be Pharaoh. Who knows what ydna he carried? We can be sure, however, that all these people were probably autosomally Egyptian; just look at their sculptures.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramesses_I

Or, look at Somerled. Isn't the consensus that he was R1a? Yet he's the great "Celtic" hero against the Norse. The real world is messy and complicated in terms of genetics. People in the past didn't identify with their yDna. Well, most people today don't identify with it either. They identify with their culture. The Norse people could have been moving into the area for quite a while. People mate, and not always in the culturally permitted or "legal" ways. Things happen. Look at the mess in the English medieval royal lines. Lots of changes in yDna. Which is the "legitimate" one?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somerled

Anyway, by the 20th dynasty Ramses III was ydna "E1a". Things change.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_haplogroups_of_historic_people#Tutankhamun

 

[RobertColumbia]

Ok, 3 related mummies with same Y-DNA branch found by different archeologist kind off discard dandruff hypotheses as not likely...So, question is how did R1b branch that now exist in Europe only manage to become genetics of ruling elite in Egypt...

is there anything in ancient history like between 3500BC and 1500 BC about foreign people (not necessarily from Europe) actually conquering Egypt? ("sea people" were later and never managed to conquer Egypt, but perhaps someoone before them did)

Yes, there is. The Hyksos are reported by some writers as being a "foreign" group of people who conquered Egypt for some time.

 

[Brennos]

==================

As for the ethnic identity of the Hyksos who established the 15th Dynasty:

They were either just Semitic-speakers alone, or a multi-ethnic mix of Semites and Hurrians.

Their ruling class could be Indo-Iranian, but evidence for this is very scarce (unlike in case of Hurrian Mitanni).

I don't know why scholars think that a ruling class having Indo-aryan names must therefore be Indo-aryan in origin, even if the people belonged to another ethnicity.
If only those scholars had studied some genealogy applied to history in the Italian Peninsula!

I put an example: in the place from where my family came from, there were two forms of nobility, the landed one, and the civic one. The former was the nobility brought by Germanic invaders, so the new ?lite, the latter is the aboriginal nobility from the decurional institution of Roman municipia. Well, if we rely only on the names of the nobles of the Middle Ages from that part of Italy, then, we will say without any doubt that the landed nobility was composed by Latin and/or Italic aboriginal dudes, and that civic nobility was composed by Germanic invaders. Indeed, thanks to a rich documental sources, we are able to know a lot of genealogies of many families: I studied the phenomenon, and I saw that noble families of Germanic origins gave their sons latin and byblical names for 70% (e.g.: Johannes, Balthazar/Balzar/Balzarius, Petrus, Laurentius, etc...). On the contrary, many civic nobles gave their sons Germanic names, even if their origins are cleared as local (e.g.: Beltraminus, Bernardus, Lanfranchus, Odo, Ubertus, Sigismundus, etc...). When it comes to names, fashion is the rule, not ethnicity: civic nobles adopted the fashion to copy the original names of landed nobility... and the landed nobility wanted the names they read on the product of the more advanced Roman civilization.

 

[D.L.M]

Interesting.

 

[firetown]

There is no denying the evidence, the paternal origin of the Egyptian pharaohs is Iberian. It is good that one would like genetics, but is very bad form to use only interested. http://www.bajaryoutube.com/videos/king-tut-unwrapped-king-tuts-dna-r1b-royal-blood-bytid-bNmZQJsRjrc.html It is hiding the truth, the position of Egypt I think children in many countries have had foreign kings, nothing happens Egypt, tells the truth goes the world!, Oh my God! some can not handle the truth.

Iberian as in...? Basque? Catalan? Sorry, but there is nothing on your link.