Politics Should Crimea be an independent country? (Russian-Ukrainian conflict)

Officially? To do what? What would be NATO's purpose in Ukraine? Why don't they go Malawi, I bet they would be officially invited there too. No, they headed for Ukraine.
Now you're saying that Ukrainians are dumb and have to be told what to do? The alternative is very exciting, lol, join Russia. A friend you can trust...who gives and takes at will.

So, why do you protest then? That's exactly what happened?
I'm not protesting. I'm talking to friends to find out what they think about this, and sometimes we argue. :)


You know exactly that the naval base was not in stake. Ukraine and Russia had bilateral agreement on that.
Never heard of, explain please.


you're too much into political correctness. You have a major problem of not wanting to call things what they are. And once again, no one ever said that Ukrainians as a people are fascists. It would be especially stupid from Putin as a Russian, as they are almost the same people.
Again, nobody argues that Nazi groups took part in manifestations. However, branding all Ukraine and its government Nazi is not fair, to say the least.


That wouldn't surprise me. Those two totalitarian regimes do not differ much.
Congratulation on your skills in geopolitics and objectivity. I'm not sure if you are trying to be mean and hurt me or you can't control your exaggeration and prejudice again, perhaps both.
 
Right, that's why you posted 20 pictures with only depicting Nazi demonstrating in Kiev.

Yes, and as I've stated before it is just because I find that part of the Ukrainian problem most disturbing. Yes, there is probably at least 90% of protesters that are not Nazi, and there are probably many more disgusting or criminal things happening there - people get beaten, shot, molested, raped etc. but those are all things that Ukrainian police can handle themselves, and it won't affect much the situation in the region. On the other hand, simply because of the fact that one 20 year old armed Nazi is more effective then 9 ordinary citizens, has given them the opportunity to take the leading role in these protests and to take it all undesirable direction.

We had that kind of protests here in Yugoslavia, when people shout one thing, and then small groups of hooligans consisted of drunken, vandals, ex-convicts, criminals of all sorts, etc, step in and take it over in crucial moments. Then they lead attacks on government buildings and police station. I have a lot of first hand experience on that subject.


You might be right on this one.
Exactly. If I'm not right it's not a big deal, but if I am it means big problems.

Now you're saying that Ukrainians are dumb and have to be told what to do? The alternative is very exciting, lol, join Russia. A friend you can trust...who gives and takes at will.

It's not to join Russia, it's to become Russia again. Because that's what they are, and were before.
Anyways, I think that Ukraine would have been safe from Moscow interests, and that Western politics is what pushed Russia into actions like these:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty...entation_and_claimed_violations_of_the_treaty

Never heard of, explain please.
Something like this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Kharkiv_Pact

There were many agreements, and none of it sorted out the situation in Crimea and Sevastopol. Even proclaims like these:
http://www.nytimes.com/1993/07/10/w...-a-claim-to-ukrainian-port-of-sevastopol.html

Anyway, it will be all outdated very soon:
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/world/2014-03/28/c_126330344.htm


Again, nobody argues that Nazi groups took part in manifestations. However, branding all Ukraine and its government Nazi is not fair, to say the least.
For the 4th time, who said anything alike? If all Ukrainians thought alike ( Nazi, Buddhist, or whichever option) then there would be no problems in government institutions or on the streets. All Ukraine being Nazi would mean united Ukraine and problems for surrounding countries. The current situation in Ukraine is opposite. How many times do I have to tell you that not all Ukrainians are Nazi? :D

The plain fact that there is fight in Kiev suggests that there are two groups - one side and the other side. We know that there are policemen on the other side, so the question is who is on the other side? Peaceful protesters, students, workers, women and children? I don't think so. If it was like that, it would be no problem for the police to end it in 24 hours.

Congratulation on your skills in geopolitics and objectivity. I'm not sure if you are trying to be mean and hurt me or you can't control your exaggeration and prejudice again, perhaps both.
You really believe that there is difference? You really think Americans are free? One day you will see the light I hope.
 
Check the definition of blackmail dude. It is not a secret, no blackmail then, call it punishment or sanctions instead.

No, it is blackmail aimed on achieving of political and geopolitical goals. I bet Ukranian oligarchs together with Yanukovych himself got messages kinda: "Support the revolutionaries by your capital or your bank accounts will be frozen" or "Do not use force against the thugs of Maidan or your property here will be confiscated" etc... it could be the same even if the property was acquired legally. I am can't consider it as sanctions to fight corruption since west itself is corrupted

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/03/us-eu-corruption-idUSBREA120KN20140203

West vs corruption it's like bees vs mead
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At some point in the past collapse of Soviet Union was unrealizable too. And then poof...

More than realizable, since Soviet communists were dogmatic fanatics (dealt with with some 80 years "Soviet" professor) just like many westerners poisoned by neo-liberal ideology today.

Really?, where is the source of the news?!!! Did Putin tell you?

That's what yanks say themselves
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the words of U.S. Assistant Secretary is not a proof for you? I bet no, since you are a total advocate of americans in everything

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpweM36L7Tw
 
I wonder how long it will take for Russia to join EU and maybe NATO too? When China become 10 times economically and militarily stronger than Russia in 20 years? What if China becomes democratic and joins NATO before Russia?

lol Russia joins NATO just after Turkey joins EU & Canada the Warsaw pact
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http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/03/us-eu-corruption-idUSBREA120KN20140203

West vs corruption it's like bees vs mead
laughing.gif


It accounts for far less than 1% of 17 billion economy. Hower corruption in Russia accounts for 20% GDP!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_Russia
Get your house in order before you teach others.

More than realizable, since Soviet communists were dogmatic fanatics (dealt with with some 80 years "Soviet" professor) just like many westerners poisoned by neo-liberal ideology today.
And that's why they ended communism, lol.

That's what yanks say themselves
laughing.gif
the words of U.S. Assistant Secretary is not a proof for you? I bet no, since you are a total advocate of americans in everything
Show the world how to be prosperous and free and I will advocate Russian way. So, get busy, you have a world to catch.
 
Get your house in order before you teach others.


Well it's you who wanna teach the whole world how to live, not Russia. We are not going to alien monastery with own statute like you
 
And that's why they ended communism, lol.

Yes it is, the western liberalism is next in the queue, together with mussies and their Allahu Akbar bullshit fundamentalism, amen!
good_job.gif

It accounts for far less than 1% of 17 billion economy. Hower corruption in Russia accounts for 20% GDP!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_Russia
Get your house in order before you teach others.

2005 year information? Not very informative Lebrok, and this corruption rating means only how foreign entrepreneurs perceive it, not how much money was stolen in fact. Remind me a little bit your so called "Free mass media ratings", if support pro-America propaganda then free
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I am not surprised to be neighbor with Zimbabwe
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in such ratings since there is huge anglo-saxon anti-Russian propaganda in the western mass media, it damages the brains of westerners themselves

Better read this

http://voiceofrussia.com/2014_01_30...h-largest-amount-of-foreign-investments-5847/

Unfortunately for the Anglo-Saxon "friends", the truth still reaches the investors and west is not irreplaceable
 
Get your house in order before you teach others.


Well it's you who wanna teach the whole world how to live, not Russia. We are not going to alien monastery with own statute like you

Do we have knowledge to teach?
"West" with its knowledge of economy, politics and freedoms makes up fairly unified block of roughly one billion people with 45 trillion GDP (almost 2/3 of world's total) coupled with high freedoms of citizens.
"Russian Union" consists of roughly 150 million people with 2 trillion GDP, with sort of democracy, sort of economy, sort of freedoms, with political opponents of Putin in prisons or fleeing broad to save their lives, and 80% of citizens dreaming about Russian Empire again.

Well, the numbers and socio-economic events show that you have lots to learn.
West showed how to be prosperous and free, but of course you have a better Russian model to try... Didn't you already tried this amazing Soviet Union model? Remind me, how did it end up?
 
Statistics
1. A quarter of Russian men die before they are 55

The main cause of death of death is excessive drinking; among men who drank three or more half-liter bottles of vodka a week, 35% were expected to die before age 55.
2. Life expectancy is just 66.5 years
Average men live 60.1 years, while women have far longer average lifespans at 73.2 years.
3. There is a huge population crisis
In the past 20 years, the Russian population shrank from 148 million to 143 million. If the trend continues, there may only be 107 million people living in Russia by 2050. Last year alone, 2,500 more people died than were born.
4. Russia is the biggest heroin market in the world
Over 2.5 million Russian use drugs, and 90% of them are hooked on Afghan heroin. Ever year, Russia imports around 70 tons of heroin — more than a fifth of the global supply.
5. There is a growing HIV/AIDS epidemic due to drug injections
Among the world's top 20 economies, Russia is only second to India — which has a population nine times larger than Russia's — in terms of the number of people living with HIV. More than 20% of the world's drug users with HIV live in Russia. By 2020, the country is estimated to lose 20,000 people a month to AIDS.
6. There's a tuberculosis epidemic as well
Of the top 20 world economies, Russia is also only second to India in the number of multi-drug resistant tuberculosis. The strain doesn't respond to traditional drug treatments and spreads more effectively.
7. Clean water remains a problem

International journalists were quick to make fun of Sochi hotels' dirty brown water. But while they got to go home after a few weeks, lack of access to clean water remains a critical problem in Russia, such that even Putin has complained about it. Only half of Russia's water is potable.
8. It basically has the worst income inequality in the world
Other than Caribbean tax havens, Russia has the worst income inequality in the world. Just 110 billionaires own 35% of the country's household wealth, and the richest oligarchs have doubled their wealth in the past 20 years.
9. Economic projections are not looking good.
Inflation is rising, while GDP growth and current account balance are expected to go down.
10. And invading Crimea has only made things worse
The Russian ruble has fallen sharply against the U.S. dollar in recent months, and the Russian stock market has taken a plunge as well.
 
Statistics
1. A quarter of Russian men die before they are 55

The main cause of death of death is excessive drinking; among men who drank three or more half-liter bottles of vodka a week, 35% were expected to die before age 55.
2. Life expectancy is just 66.5 years
Average men live 60.1 years, while women have far longer average lifespans at 73.2 years.
3. There is a huge population crisis
In the past 20 years, the Russian population shrank from 148 million to 143 million. If the trend continues, there may only be 107 million people living in Russia by 2050. Last year alone, 2,500 more people died than were born.
4. Russia is the biggest heroin market in the world
Over 2.5 million Russian use drugs, and 90% of them are hooked on Afghan heroin. Ever year, Russia imports around 70 tons of heroin — more than a fifth of the global supply.
5. There is a growing HIV/AIDS epidemic due to drug injections
Among the world's top 20 economies, Russia is only second to India — which has a population nine times larger than Russia's — in terms of the number of people living with HIV. More than 20% of the world's drug users with HIV live in Russia. By 2020, the country is estimated to lose 20,000 people a month to AIDS.
6. There's a tuberculosis epidemic as well
Of the top 20 world economies, Russia is also only second to India in the number of multi-drug resistant tuberculosis. The strain doesn't respond to traditional drug treatments and spreads more effectively.
7. Clean water remains a problem

International journalists were quick to make fun of Sochi hotels' dirty brown water. But while they got to go home after a few weeks, lack of access to clean water remains a critical problem in Russia, such that even Putin has complained about it. Only half of Russia's water is potable.
8. It basically has the worst income inequality in the world
Other than Caribbean tax havens, Russia has the worst income inequality in the world. Just 110 billionaires own 35% of the country's household wealth, and the richest oligarchs have doubled their wealth in the past 20 years.
9. Economic projections are not looking good.
Inflation is rising, while GDP growth and current account balance are expected to go down.
10. And invading Crimea has only made things worse
The Russian ruble has fallen sharply against the U.S. dollar in recent months, and the Russian stock market has taken a plunge as well.
Good summary of the Russian Model. ...and don't dare to teach them, lol.
 
Was that an April Fool's Day joke from yesterday?
 
Nice article. At the bottom he also says:

"With tears welling in his eyes, Yanukovych said he was ready to sacrifice his life during the escalating protests but realized that doing so would be simply a gift to the "neo-fascists" who he said seized power by force. He claimed they opened fire with machine guns on his convoy as he was leaving the Ukrainian capital."
 
I didn't agree with his political imprisonment of Tymoshenko.
 
Will Russian annexation of Crimea cause economic disaster in the peninsula?
Last year 6 million tourists visited Crimea, 70%( 4.2 million) of them arrived from mainland Ukraine. I thing that tourists will not take risk to go to Crimea in the middle of crisis. Furthermore most of resources in peninsula come from Ukraine what will happen when Ukraine will stop delivery?
Here is source from CNN.
Russia will have to pay for the losses plus some extra money to keep People in Crimea enthusiastic about changes of borders.
 
Will Russian annexation of Crimea cause economic disaster in the peninsula?
Last year 6 million tourists visited Crimea, 70%( 4.2 million) of them arrived from mainland Ukraine. I thing that tourists will not take risk to go to Crimea in the middle of crisis. Furthermore most of resources in peninsula come from Ukraine what will happen when Ukraine will stop delivery?
Here is source from CNN.
Russia will have to pay for the losses plus some extra money to keep People in Crimea enthusiastic about changes of borders.

Crimea is small enough not to bankrupt Russia.
Having said that, I don't think Putin cared for any economic implications or what rich western tourists think. Small inconvenience for him when building a new Russian Empire.
 
Nice article. At the bottom he also says:

"With tears welling in his eyes, Yanukovych said he was ready to sacrifice his life during the escalating protests but realized that doing so would be simply a gift to the "neo-fascists" who he said seized power by force. He claimed they opened fire with machine guns on his convoy as he was leaving the Ukrainian capital."

Of course you like that part of the article.

Yeah, he is just bullshitting CNN with what he said. That isn't true, he couldn't care less about the Ukrianian people, all he cares/cared about is stealing money to build big mansions and compounds, and to buy useless and expensive things; and appeasing his BFF/boyfriend Putin. :grin:

That's why he was deposed.

Also, if they (the opposition) found his convoy when he was leaving, they would have done much worse than fire guns at it. They would have captured him, and turned him over to The Hague, who would have then prosecuted him. The Hague is still going to prosecute Yanukovych, as he massacred hundreds of people, and committed numerous human rights abuses.
 
Statistics
1. A quarter of Russian men die before they are 55

The main cause of death of death is excessive drinking; among men who drank three or more half-liter bottles of vodka a week, 35% were expected to die before age 55.
2. Life expectancy is just 66.5 years
Average men live 60.1 years, while women have far longer average lifespans at 73.2 years.
3. There is a huge population crisis
In the past 20 years, the Russian population shrank from 148 million to 143 million. If the trend continues, there may only be 107 million people living in Russia by 2050. Last year alone, 2,500 more people died than were born.
4. Russia is the biggest heroin market in the world
Over 2.5 million Russian use drugs, and 90% of them are hooked on Afghan heroin. Ever year, Russia imports around 70 tons of heroin — more than a fifth of the global supply.
5. There is a growing HIV/AIDS epidemic due to drug injections
Among the world's top 20 economies, Russia is only second to India — which has a population nine times larger than Russia's — in terms of the number of people living with HIV. More than 20% of the world's drug users with HIV live in Russia. By 2020, the country is estimated to lose 20,000 people a month to AIDS.
6. There's a tuberculosis epidemic as well
Of the top 20 world economies, Russia is also only second to India in the number of multi-drug resistant tuberculosis. The strain doesn't respond to traditional drug treatments and spreads more effectively.
7. Clean water remains a problem

International journalists were quick to make fun of Sochi hotels' dirty brown water. But while they got to go home after a few weeks, lack of access to clean water remains a critical problem in Russia, such that even Putin has complained about it. Only half of Russia's water is potable.
8. It basically has the worst income inequality in the world
Other than Caribbean tax havens, Russia has the worst income inequality in the world. Just 110 billionaires own 35% of the country's household wealth, and the richest oligarchs have doubled their wealth in the past 20 years.
9. Economic projections are not looking good.
Inflation is rising, while GDP growth and current account balance are expected to go down.
10. And invading Crimea has only made things worse
The Russian ruble has fallen sharply against the U.S. dollar in recent months, and the Russian stock market has taken a plunge as well.

Very very outdated & far from reality
Read this
http://www.forbes.com/sites/markadomanis/2013/02/04/five-myths-about-russia/
http://marknesop.wordpress.com/2011/05/14/the-zombie-myth-of-devastating-russian-depopulation/

and be silent, representative of the most corrupt hellhole of Europe can not try to be clever really. What is Kosovo today? - Nest of prostitution and human / drug trafficking lead by some wierdo who carved out organs of alive Serbs, nice... democrazy of my a**...
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Crimea is small enough not to bankrupt Russia.
Having said that, I don't think Putin cared for any economic implications or what rich western tourists think. Small inconvenience for him when building a new Russian Empire.
I have written about Crimea, not Russia. Building infrastructure to connect Russia with Crimea will take few years, while people there need electricity, water and bread every day. Maybe Putin didn't take economy under consideration, but if it will lead to economic disaster in Crimea will he be able to stop protests of hungry and angry people? Or Russia will threaten Ukraine with war in case when they will try to cut of supplies for the peninsula.
 

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