Unlike you, I don't care if they are for or against. This was my point. I'm saying that they are free to make their own mind. That's how democracy works. I'm hoping that you going to get it one day.
Ukrainians consider Donbass as their territory. Why would they block economic relation of Donbass with Russia? To make whole Ukraine even poorer?!!!
What?! Yanukovych sent soldiers to Nato for training? Maybe there were Russian spies lol?
What? Whatever.
How can you even compare these two referendums. It must be from pure desperation to save Putin's face.
Desperation is on your side because you claim that 97% per 83% turnover is a farce, while 89% per 100% is no farce.
All were British citizens already for almost 200 years, all speaking english, 70% ethnic British the rest a mix from around the world
So all Crimeans were Russian citizens from 200 years.
, and Britain has much better economy than Argentina.
So Russia has much better economy than Ukraine. Wages in Russia were three time higher than in Ukraine back then.
Do you notice something?
I don't see Argentinian minority in the mix to vote for Argentina, do you?
No. And do you remember that the Tatar leader claimed that the Tatars would not participate in the referendum?
Official count says 97% voted for Russia with 83% attendance. It means that all Russians, all Tatars (
we know how they love Russians), all others and one third of Ukrainians voted "Yes joining Russia" for official numbers to be true!
It seems you seriously try to convince me that 97% per 83% turnover are "farce" and 89% per 100% are no farce. (assuming you trust PEW, or does "P" in PEW stand for Putin? GFK is even higher, but too new.)
That means that your claim is based on 14% difference only. Not convincing at all, but ok, let's see from where the 14% might come from:
The Tatar leader claimed that the 12% Tatars
do not participate in that referendum. So it is safe to assume the biggest "nay"-sayer group is already within the 17% non-participants, leaving more "yes"-sayers within the rest.
In maximum case, already only these Tatars (12%) come close to the 14%. Since I do not believe that all Tatars were not participating (50% came to vote later in the afternoon), let's assume 6%. Let's not be mean and assume also that those tatars who voted were 50% "nay"-sayers, so that leaves 3%. So 14%-3% remains 11% to explain:
According to russian sources 20000 out of 22000 ukrainian soldiers from Crimea were joining the russian army (92%; it would explain why there was no fight). Since the source is russian, let's not be mean and assume that only 50% of Ukrainians were "yes"-sayers, which would be 12%. Since 12% is already more than 11%, already here is nothing left to argue why the referendum would be a farce. It should be even higher than 97%.
Just for fun, let's look at the 6% others: I have only informations about the 2500 German minority living in Crimea. Their leader said that all of them (100%) will vote "yes":
http://www.n-tv.de/politik/Krim-Deutsche-waehlen-Russland-article12468496.html
I don't care if you'll start hating Germans now, because it will just further expose you.
Salaries in March 2014 were three-fold higher in Russia than in Ukraine, and army salary even four-fold higher. Since situation has much worsened in Ukraine since then, the pro-Russian stance has increased even more (GFK 2015: 93%).
Getting ones wage multiplied like this is quite something, don't you think?
Conclusion: The results from PEW and GFK are more than supportive of the referendum result.
q.e.d.
It is obvious that it was a farce.
Yes, it is obvious that it was no farce. Except to those who only see things they want to see, poor chap.
Can you do the math yourself and make sense in your head. The figures are very transparent.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_status_referendum,_2014
"Polling by the Razumkov Centre in 2008 found that 63.8% of Crimeans (76% of Russians, 55% of Ukrainians, and 14% of Crimean Tatars, respectively) would like Crimea to secede from Ukraine and join Russia and 53.8% would like to preserve its current status, but with expanded powers and rights. Razumkov characterized Crimeans' views as controversial and unsteady, and therefore vulnerable to internal and external influences.[32] A poll by the International Republican Institute in May 2013 found that 53% wanted "Autonomy in Ukraine (as today)", 12% were for "Crimean Tatar autonomy within Ukraine", 2% for "Common oblast of Ukraine" and 23% voted for "Crimea should be separated and given to Russia"."
Thank you for showing that already in 2008 the majority wanted to join Russia. What's your point?
I remember this Russian type voting from Poland way back. 99.9 attendance and 99.9 voted for Communist party, every time! I'm sure you should remember them from DDR.
Putin knows how to direct voting from his KGB years and "observed" the voting himself.
Yes, like the 99.8% communist Falklands referendum. Your explanations for the Falklands referendum all hold for Crimea as well, as I showed above.
And you know s*** about what I remember, LeBrok.
You didn't answer the question. What do you think Putin would do if people voted to stay with Ukraine?
I don't know. Do you?
