Similar words between Latin and Gaulish Celtic

The linguist KH Schmidt stated in 1984 that Italic and Germanic uniquely share the word for 'copper, bronze' (Latin aes ~ Gothic aiz, Old Norse eir, Old High German ēr), while Germanic and Celtic uniquely share the word for iron: *īsarno- 'iron'. This would parallel the connections in the Bronze and Iron Ages.
 
sorry
I insist to say that to understand modern written languages of same family with a lot of international words (technics, medecine, culture etc...) for an educated and knowledged person is not the same as to understand the same languages, but spoken and more "trivial" for people who are not interested in languages.

Ok, but why do you assume that ordinary ancient Romans were not interested in languages? It was surely more important for legionaries and traders who were travelling a lot and needed to communicate with foreigners constantly. Surely some of them would have developed an aptitude for languages by force of necessity, if not by personal inclination.

As for Roman patricians, they received a bilingual education in Latin and Greek and would therefore have more facility to learn other Indo-European languages. Gaulish is certainly closer to Latin than Greek is to Latin anyway.
 
The linguist KH Schmidt stated in 1984 that Italic and Germanic uniquely share the word for 'copper, bronze' (Latin aes ~ Gothic aiz, Old Norse eir, Old High German ēr), while Germanic and Celtic uniquely share the word for iron: *īsarno- 'iron'. This would parallel the connections in the Bronze and Iron Ages.

I think I read this one time already. Interesting but does a single kind of link like this learn us plenty about old connexions? I read we saw all sorts of connexions concerning copper and bronze origins in Scandinavia. A new word very often comes into the 'sink' language (importer) with the first appearence of a stuff, in the tongue of the exporter. But it can have been transported through more than an ethny (chain of exports-imports), or sometimes been "translated" or replaced by a proxi in one of the diverse languages during travel. Plus the trade connexions are not always tightly linked to the ethnic connexions (common ancient origin of people). So, when we speak of ethnies connexions in past, we need a lot of basic lexicon, and the stuffs/commodities names are not the best ones, even more when they are isolated. Let's imagine three ethnies geographically close one to another, forming a triangle. A new stuff can go from one direction at some time, another stuff later from another direction. Could it tell us anything about the thightness of the connections between the three ethnies? I rely more on the family, body, nature, basic adjectives and verbs to establish links.
The only unsure but not illogical lesson I see here could be that relations between Italics and Germans were more ancient than links between Celts and Germans, and even...
 
Ok, but why do you assume that ordinary ancient Romans were not interested in languages? It was surely more important for legionaries and traders who were travelling a lot and needed to communicate with foreigners constantly. Surely some of them would have developed an aptitude for languages by force of necessity, if not by personal inclination.

As for Roman patricians, they received a bilingual education in Latin and Greek and would therefore have more facility to learn other Indo-European languages. Gaulish is certainly closer to Latin than Greek is to Latin anyway.

I suppose I didn't understand well your point? When I speak of proximity of languages, I think in the common people ability and feelings.
 
I think I read this one time already. Interesting but does a single kind of link like this learn us plenty about old connexions? I read we saw all sorts of connexions concerning copper and bronze origins in Scandinavia. A new word very often comes into the 'sink' language (importer) with the first appearence of a stuff, in the tongue of the exporter. But it can have been transported through more than an ethny (chain of exports-imports), or sometimes been "translated" or replaced by a proxi in one of the diverse languages during travel. Plus the trade connexions are not always tightly linked to the ethnic connexions (common ancient origin of people). So, when we speak of ethnies connexions in past, we need a lot of basic lexicon, and the stuffs/commodities names are not the best ones, even more when they are isolated. Let's imagine three ethnies geographically close one to another, forming a triangle. A new stuff can go from one direction at some time, another stuff later from another direction. Could it tell us anything about the thightness of the connections between the three ethnies? I rely more on the family, body, nature, basic adjectives and verbs to establish links.
The only unsure but not illogical lesson I see here could be that relations between Italics and Germans were more ancient than links between Celts and Germans, and even...

Yes I use it more often Moesan. What I suppose is a 'warrior-elite' spread from the Unetice-middle Danubian area to the North Sea coast in EBA. They founded the Sögel-Wohlde culture. Besides R1b U106 they also brought in a kind of Italo-Celtic tongue (hypothese).

All tentative and preliminary of course Moesan.
 
Moesan: Spanish and Italian : I doubt it would be possible for basic Italian and Spanish not knowledged speakers to understand each other, only in some short statements, and not for all everyday needs, how basic could be these needs.
hombre : uomo – mujer : moglie – hijo : figlio – hermano : fratello – sobrino : nipote - primo : cugino niño : bambino - ternero : vitello – carnero : castrato – morueco : montone - cordero : agnello -
oveja : pecora – perro : cane – ave/pajaro : ucello -
espaldas : dorso – ojo : occhio – hombro : spalla – pierna : gamba – anca : coscia -
lluva : pioggia – hierro : ferro – cobre : rame – plata : argento -
bruno : moreno – amarillo : giallo – limpio : pulito – sucio : sporco – lleno : pieno – viejo : vecchio -
ventana : finestra – patio : cortile – huerto : giardino – mesa : tavola – vaso/copa : bicchiere -
aceite : olio – carretera : strada – manzana : pomo/mela – dia : giorno -
mirar : guardare – comer : mangiare – matar : uccidere/ammazzare – tomar/coger : prendere/pigliare esperar/aguardar : attendere/aspettare – entender : comprendere – salir : uscire/sortire – subir : salire llorar : piangere …


Look, as a native French speaker I could pick up Italian in only two months of studying in Rome and could pass for a native speaker afterwards. I also learned Spanish in a few months, although I haven't used it that much since then. But it was extremely easy compared to learning Japanese, Chinese or Russian (which I have all learned, although only reached an advanced level in Japanese by lack of time for the other two).

I never learned Portuguese but can understand 80% of written Portuguese and reasonably well spoken Brazilian Portuguese (the accent from Portugal takes more getting used to). Yet I wouldn't say I am gifted for languages. I was dead last in Dutch class at school most years. My natural aptitude was always more for sciences and history than for languages. So if I can learn Italian or Spanish in a few months, why couldn't Roman legionaries do it with Gaulish? After all Caesar's legions stayed nearly 10 years in Gaul and they had plenty of free time between battles, which they spent in local taverns and, well probably also brothels... places where it's easy to assimilate a new language.

But we have to keep in mind that spoken and written languages are not the same

I know. I have learned over 10 languages. I also tried for fun to read Wikipedia articles in various Romance languages or dialects (Catalan, Galician, Sardinian, Sicilian, Emilan, Lombard, Occitan, etc.) just to see how much I could understand. I can understand 60 to 90% in written form, though I am sure it would be much less in spoken form (I have also tested in YouTube), but still well over 30% without being familar to the language, and easily over 50% after some getting used to it by hearing it for several hours for a few days.


In Welsh of th 7th/8th C. ancient -t- were written -d- as ancient -d-

A 't' that becomes pronounced 'd' or vice versa is hardly an obstacle to understanding. There are usually many ways of pronouncing a same word in English and people still understand each others just fine. Americans say 'better' with a 'd' sound for the double 't' while Brits say 't' and often with a global stop. A word like 'often' can be pronounced with or without the 't' in any variety of English, and some people even use both pronunciations depending on their mood. The thing is that the human mind is very flexible and can easily recognise small variations in a same word. That's why I think ancient Romans and Gauls would have had little problem understanding the words I listed, whatever the local accent. That's especially true if they spoke slowly, which they would have done when dealing with foreigners.
 
Was Brythonic a single language? Presumably the Belgic migrations to Britain brought a language that would have been similar to Gaulish whereas the native Celts would have spoken a language which had evolved from a q-celtic form similar to goidelic.
 
I think we are not speaking of the same thing.
We were not at first speaking of the ability to learn a language, but the ability to understand a foreign language at first hearing without learn it before. It isn't the same. I can easily read police romants in Italian, Portuguese, Spanish, Catalan, Galician, Asturian/Leonese, it's evident: they share a common origin for the must. And I've to say it depends on the language level too, not always the same. To understand the spoken language at first is another thing. I was not speaking about people lviing in a foreign country: there is a bit of immersion here, and then, NO NEED OF A COMMON ORIGIN OF THE NATIVE AND THE FOREIGN LANGUAGE (just the foreign one will be learned very faster);
 
Was Brythonic a single language? Presumably the Belgic migrations to Britain brought a language that would have been similar to Gaulish whereas the native Celts would have spoken a language which had evolved from a q-celtic form similar to goidelic.

It seems all Belgae tribes were not speaking the same language (Celtic, Germanic, something like the so called 'Alt Europäisch' of N-W Europe IE).
On what I read Belgae (Which ones?) were a small and late part of the Britain, rather settled in S-E and East. The P- brittonic dialects whith their -m- > -v- evolution descended rather from other Celts as a whole, of West or/and North ancient Britain.
otehrwise, yes, some scholars think the first one in Britain would have spoken Qw- Celtic dialects, but I doubt the P- ones were introduced only by Belgae; not resolved.
)
 
Some Gaulish inscriptions in Etruscan alphabet in Italy ; we can see the structures of language were not always exactly the same.
Texts are hard to read, because of the lack of some letters and some curious cuts in words.




In Vercelli : Gaulish version in Etruscan local alphabet – let’s notice G > K (Arkantoko) and D > T (teuox, tonion)


FINIS │CAMPO∙QVEM│DEDIT│ACISIVS│ARGANTOCOMATER│ECVS∙COMVNE M│
(This is) the boundary to the field which Argantomaterecus gave in common
DEIS∙ET∙HOMINIB│VS∙ITA VTI LAPIDES│IIII∙STATVTISVNT (underlined : not translated in Gaulish)
to gods and men; – thus 4 stones have been set up”
Gaulish version
AKISIOS∙ARKANTOKO│MATEREKOS∙TO–ŚO│KO-TE AN?TOM TEUOX│TONION EU
Akisios argantokomaterekos, he gave it, a boundary of gods and people.”


in Todi (Umbria) :The senses of both the Latin versions are in principle identical:


Side “A” (Latin version)
ATEGNATEI DRVTEI∙F∙│..COI]SIS│DRV│TEI∙F∙FRATER│EIVS│MINIMVS∙LOCAV│IT∙ET∙STATVIT
Side “A” (Gaulish version)
ATEKNATI∙TRUT│IKNI∙KARNITU│ARTUAŚ KOISIS∙T│RUTIKNOS
for Ategnatos, a son of Drutos, Koisis erected the stelle, son of Drutos”
in fact : « « « « , erected the stelle Koisis, Drutos-son.
The same under :


Side “B” (Latin version)
[ATEGNATI∙DRVTI∙F∙│..C]OISIS DRVTI∙F│[F]RATER∙EIVS│[M]INIMVS∙LOCAV.E│[ST]ATVITQVI
[tomb] of Ategnatos, son of Drutos. Coisis, son of Drutos, his brother youngest, placed [it] and stood”
Side “B” (Gaulish version)
[AT]EGNATI∙TRUTI[K]NI │[KAR]NITU∙LOKAN∙KOSIS│[TR]UTIKNOS
for Ategnatos, a son of Drutos, Koisis erected the tomb, son of Drutos”
 
Some more words, found in Blazak compilation; sorry, some of them has been given already.

From diverse Gaulish short writings (¤ : in Etruscan alphabet, ° : Greek alphabet, put in ~latin alphabet by myself)




* [FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]ŭ[/FONT]olo[FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]ŭ[/FONT]tu wealth
° dede offered
° matrebo (< matir) to the mothers
° nemeton sacred enclosure
° sosin this
° tooutious citizen
¤ -iknoi/¤ -ikni (-igno) descendant of (issued, born by)
¤ artuas stelle ?
¤ atrebo (< ater) to the fathers
¤ karnitu erected (iled stones up?)
¤ lokan tomb
¤ teuo-x (dêuo-) god
¤ tonion (donion) people (persons?)
andecari amiable
andernados group of women? -
anmanbe her names
bnanom (< beni) of the women
bricto(m) incantations (magy?)
bu[FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]đđ[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]uton [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]penis[/FONT]
bued-it will become ? -
cambion the bent one
canti of songs
celicnon building
[FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]delgu [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]I contain (I hold)[/FONT]
dessu-mi-is I prepare them
dona (loan from Latin) wife
dugiiontiio who worship, worshiping
duxtir daughter
esi (v.) is
etic and
gabi ! (V.) take ! -
gnatha, nata girl
gni[FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]í[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]ou [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]I know ? - [/FONT]
gobedbi with smiths
ibetis ! (V.) drink (thou) ! -
ieuru (ievrv) offered
[FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]í[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]exsete[/FONT] ‘pudenda’ (sexual parts of body?)
liciatim letter-writer ? -
linda drinks ? -
luxe ! (V.) swear ! -
me[FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]í[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]on [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]small thing ? -[/FONT]
ne[FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]đđamon [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]the nearest[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif] [/FONT]
nemnali[FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]í[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]umi [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]I celebrate[/FONT]
ollon great ? -
regu-c I straighten
[FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]sesit [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]he has sown ? - [/FONT]
sue cluio I hear (am hearing) you
sviorebe (with help of/along with?) sisters
temuelle dark
toncnaman oath ? -
toncsi[FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]í[/FONT]ont-io will swear ? -
uidlu(i)(a) vision ? -


other words of the calendars :


(a)edrini > summer ? -
allo-s > other
amm/an > time, moment
amat-u > not good (incomplete, here)
cantlos/cantli > song
cingo-s > course
duman-ni > L. fumus ? -
elemb-iv > deer
eqqvos > horse ? -
giamon-i > winter
laget > diminishing
lat(-ion?) > day
lovdin > grow- ? -
mat-u > good
novx, -nox- > night
ogron(n)-i > cold
prinni (< prenne?) > tree, tree wood)
ratis > fern
rivros/rivri > intensive cold
samon-i > summer
semivis/simiviso(nn) > half-spring
sindiv > today
sonno- > sun
 
in Blazak compilation too:

from ‘De nobilibus Gallicis’ gloses :


ambe > brook, stream
anam > marsh
auallo > apple
are > before, in front of
brio > bridge
doro > entry, dor
dunum > mountain
lautro > bath
more > sea
nanto > valley
nate > son ( ? < gnate?)
onno > river
prenne > big tree
roth > steep
treide > foot


In late Latin, words borrowed from Gaulish, in glosesby diverse classical authors: Pliny, Festus, Diodorus of Sicily, Cicero, Suetonius ... authors (see LG 204–06; Schmidt 1967; Sowa 1998)


acaunumarga <
akaunon < akmanon* stone
marga > margila marl
alauda lark
ambactus vassal,
andabat(t)a « fighting blind » gladiator
ando- blind
attegia hut, cottage
tegia house, roof
beber (bebrum) beaver (in late Latin, before : Lat- fiber)
beccus beak, bill
benna kind of carriage
beta, betulla birch
br[FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]ā[/FONT]cae/br[FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]ā[/FONT]c[FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]ē[/FONT]s breeches, trousers
bracis malt <
braciaca (Gaul.) of beer
brogae field
brogilus small field? -
brucaria heather
bulga leathern knapsack, bag
camminus road (7th Cy!)
carrus two wheeled wagon
cateia kind of spear
cauannos owl
cis(s)ium two wheeled cabriolet
cleta hamper, hurdle
combrus felled trees
couinnus war chariot
crocina suit of the skin
curucus craft (boat?) covered by skin
damma roe, gazelle
drungus troop of enemies
esox fish (pike?)
essedum two-wheeled war chariot (with a seat?!?)
gaesum spear, javelin
gladius sword
glastum blue colour
gulbia beak, bill
iotta soup of a milk, mash
lancea spear
leucas/leuga league, Gaulish mile
linna mantle
mannus pony, little horse
nausum ship
olca arable field
petorritum four wheeled chariot
petia > pecia piece
pititus small
riga (late) < *rica furrow
rodarum plant with the leaves which become red
rusca bark
sagum/sagus/saga Gaulish tunic
sugia (late) soot
taratrum borer, gimlet
tarinca > taringa iron nail
tax[FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]ō [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]badger[/FONT]
uassus vassal, servant
u[FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]ā[/FONT]t[FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]ē[/FONT]s, u[FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]ā[/FONT]tis prophet, poet
uer[FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]ē[/FONT]dus post horse
vertragus kind of a hound
trag-* foot
uiriola bracelets
 
It seems all Belgae tribes were not speaking the same language (Celtic, Germanic, something like the so called 'Alt Europäisch' of N-W Europe IE).
On what I read Belgae (Which ones?) were a small and late part of the Britain, rather settled in S-E and East. The P- brittonic dialects whith their -m- > -v- evolution descended rather from other Celts as a whole, of West or/and North ancient Britain.
otehrwise, yes, some scholars think the first one in Britain would have spoken Qw- Celtic dialects, but I doubt the P- ones were introduced only by Belgae; not resolved.
)

The link between the ancient Britons and Belgae deserves to be further investigated. Apart from the fact that some Belgic tribes like the Atrebates settled in Britain, it is likely that the Brythonic Celts originally crossed from the continent to Britain via Belgium and the Nord-Pas-de-Calais, as it is the closest crossing point.

Additionally the proportion of R1b-L21 within the P312 branch is relatively high in Belgium (33% in western Belgium, 22% in eastern Belgium). The only part of France where this proportion is higher is in Brittany (53% of P312 is L21), where there was a huge backflow of Britons in the Late Antiquity. The high proportion is L21 with Celtic R1b in Belgium is not evident at first sight because over half of all Belgian R1b is now Germanic U106, so the absolute percentage of L21 only makes up 9% of the population - much less than in Brittany (37.5%). But before Roman times it would have been the dominant form of R1b.

Last but not least, all modern Belgian individuals that I ran in MyTrueAncestry (for what it's worth) had almost only British Celtic and ancient Belgic connections and hardly any Gaulish or Gallo-Roman ones.
 
The link between the ancient Britons and Belgae deserves to be further investigated. Apart from the fact that some Belgic tribes like the Atrebates settled in Britain, it is likely that the Brythonic Celts originally crossed from the continent to Britain via Belgium and the Nord-Pas-de-Calais, as it is the closest crossing point.

Additionally the proportion of R1b-L21 within the P312 branch is relatively high in Belgium (33% in western Belgium, 22% in eastern Belgium). The only part of France where this proportion is higher is in Brittany (53% of P312 is L21), where there was a huge backflow of Britons in the Late Antiquity. The high proportion is L21 with Celtic R1b in Belgium is not evident at first sight because over half of all Belgian R1b is now Germanic U106, so the absolute percentage of L21 only makes up 9% of the population - much less than in Brittany (37.5%). But before Roman times it would have been the dominant form of R1b.

Last but not least, all modern Belgian individuals that I ran in MyTrueAncestry (for what it's worth) had almost only British Celtic and ancient Belgic connections and hardly any Gaulish or Gallo-Roman ones.

I have no clue concerning the today Belgians people compared to Gauls or Gallo-Romans, helas. What I read in some amateurs runs is that some Hallstatt people (how much? very few i suppose) would have been very close to modern Belgians and so to Northern French people, not so close to today islander Celts (drift?). Some other simulations seem showing that Bavarian (Lech) Late BA people had ties with today Auvergne, Bavaria, Brittany, so that there are differences but some important sharings too. If you can send us some of YOUR runs, it would be welcome.
Concerning Y-R1b-L21, I'm almost sure yes, that at first it was spread allover North-Western Europe and even in more central places before being overwhelmed by a new flood of Y-R1b, U152 this time (U152 is strong enough too among Walloons and Western Germans, not?), and yes, the most easy way to go to Isles was in Northern France; but L21 is not so weak in Northern Iberia, and it shows it was spread in West too, not only in North. ATW we know to date the tribes names of the "Jules" period or close to it, not the previous situation; we can suppose North France was settled by Gaulish tribes before Belgae came (from Bohemia/Northern Bavaria?).
To complicate the scheme, it seems that the known language of the Belgae was different but close to Gaulish Celtic (Strabon)and to the Britton (Tacite); even Ligurian was considered as close enough to Gaulish (Tite-Live, but here we can be cautious: in Alps there were an imbrication of Gaulish and Ligurian tribes, so...), only Aquitanian was considered as completely different from Gaulish, closer to Iberian (Strabon). So, it's difficult to tell the part taken by Gauls and Belgae in the formation of insular Celtic languages. ATW the P- Celtic dialects were present in the most part of Gaul even if we can imagine some Qw- dialects here and there, not proven to date.
 
Just to compare (and to separate lexicon ties and phonetic ties)


Supposed correspondances between Celtic and Slavic langages :


These words are rather I-Ean cognates common in more than two families, but here their forms are quite close (the roots at least), so I put them here, without aim to prove some prevalent proximity between Celtic and Slavic languages ! Surely I ‘ll find more words.
Slavic, as Germanic and Celtic, seems having made B- of *Bh- when Latin made F- and Greek Ph-
and G- of *Gh- when Latin made H- (faded to date) and Greek Kh-, and D- of *Dh- when Lati made F- and Greek Th- ; without going into details it seems Italic had a very specific stops evolution that put him finally far enough from Celtic and could evoke more southeast-central Europe for a late stage...


Welsh twp < > Czech tupy stupid
Welsh tyw, Breton tew thick < > Czech t[FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]ěž[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]ky [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]heavy, difficult[/FONT]
[FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]Irish, Gaelic [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]fliuch[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif], Welsh [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]gwlyb[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif], Breton [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]gwleb [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]< > Czech [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]vlhk[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]ŷ[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif][/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]humid, wet, [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]vlàha [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]humidity, [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]Serbo-Croat [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]vlaga[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif],[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif] [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]Russian [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]vlà[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]ž[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]nost’ [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif](radic. *[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]vlag[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif])[/FONT]
[FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]Welsh [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]neu[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif], Breton [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]no[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif] (obsolete) < > Czech [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]nebo [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]or[/FONT]
[FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]Welsh [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]gaeaf[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif], Breton [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]goañv [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]<> [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]Czech [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]zim[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]ě[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif] [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]winter[/FONT]
[FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]? Welsh [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]brân[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif], Breton [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]bran [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]< > Czech [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]vr[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]à[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]na[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif], [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]Croatian/Serbian/Slovenian [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]vrana[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif], [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]Polish [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]wrona[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif] crow,[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif] [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]maybe cognate with English [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]wren [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]?[/FONT]
[FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]Breton [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]gwrac’h [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]witch, old woman < > [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]vràsa [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]wrinkling, creasing[/FONT]
[FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]Irish [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]talamh < > [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]Serbo-Croat [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]tlo [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]soil, ground [/FONT]
[FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]Breton [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]gleup/skleup < > [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]Serbo-Croatian [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]glup[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif],[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif][/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]Polish [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]g[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]ł[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]upi[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif], Russian [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]glup’ij [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]dumb, stupid[/FONT]
[FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]Gaelic [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]olann[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif], [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]Welsh [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]gwlan[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif], Breton [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]gwlan/gloan[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif],[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif][/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]Czech [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]vlna[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif], [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]Serbo-Croatian [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]vuna[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif], Bulgarian [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]v[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]ă[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]lna [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]wool[/FONT]
[FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]& : it seems Slavs have more than a term for ‘wool’ ; detailed sorts or diverse origin ?[/FONT]
[FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]? Welsh bri prestige, Breton bri prestige, esteem, respect + Welsh bre, Breton brelow mountain, hill < > Serbo-Croatian breg hill < >Bulgarian brjag coast, strand, bank, Polish brzeg coast, strand (cf German berg)[/FONT]
[FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]Welsh dôl meadow, dale, Breton dol low ground, river curve < > Bulgariandol, Serbo-Croatian dô, dolina dale, valley, Russian dolina, Polish dolina, Czech ùdol[FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]í[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif], cf English [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]dale[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif], German [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]tal[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Liberation Serif, serif][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]W[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]elsh [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]dyled[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif], Breton [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]dle (dele)[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif] [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]debt < > [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]Polish [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]dług[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif], Czech [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]dluh[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif], Bulgarian [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]dălg[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif], Serbo-Croatian [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]dug[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif], Slovenian[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif] dolga[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif] [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]debt[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Liberation Serif, serif][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]Welsh [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]gôr [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]pus[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif], [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]B[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]reton [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]gor [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]hot + heath, wooden fuel, ab[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]s[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]cess, pus < > [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]Polish [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]gorąco[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] , Czech [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]horko[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]R[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]ussian [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]gorjačij[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif], Bulgare [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]gorešto [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]hot (+ warm?)[/FONT][/FONT]
 
It is not clear for what purpose / idea this exercise is done here. Simply listing words without indicating etymology and origin, part of them are IE and others are not.
You obviously don't understand what you're writing about, because for example you say that
Aballo Apple
Beber Beaver
come from Gaelic to English but this is not true. Libu, Dori , vistu are not from Gaulish.
The word Apple is explained by the shape of the fruit, but how is it round in Gaulish?
Or, for example, none of the languages ​​listed below gives the etymology of the word „vrana“ so the meaning of the word does not derive from them:
"Welsh brân, Breton bran <> Czech vràna, Croatian / Serbian / Slovenian vrana, Polish wrona crow, maybe cognate with English wren?"
It comes from the color of the bird and has a specific root, like all IE words, which are borrowed in languages ​​such as German, Latin, French, Greek, English ... which are not Indo-E by origin.
 
It is not clear for what purpose / idea this exercise is done here. Simply listing words without indicating etymology and origin, part of them are IE and others are not.
You obviously don't understand what you're writing about, because for example you say that
Aballo Apple
Beber Beaver
come from Gaelic to English but this is not true. Libu, Dori , vistu are not from Gaulish.
The word Apple is explained by the shape of the fruit, but how is it round in Gaulish?
Or, for example, none of the languages ​​listed below gives the etymology of the word „vrana“ so the meaning of the word does not derive from them:
"Welsh brân, Breton bran <> Czech vràna, Croatian / Serbian / Slovenian vrana, Polish wrona crow, maybe cognate with English wren?"
It comes from the color of the bird and has a specific root, like all IE words, which are borrowed in languages ​​such as German, Latin, French, Greek, English ... which are not Indo-E by origin.

If something isn't clear, it's your own post! You seem a bit confused.
Nobody did compare here Gaulish or Celtic to English (English is only for the meaning); one post speak only of words considered as Latin borrowings coming of supposed Gaulish words! Do reread the posts.
For 'apple' and 'crow' (form, colour) do give your roots; taht said, the mentioned languages are not as a whole only borrowing languages, they are roughly descendants of the same PIE (in the modern so called IE languages, some words could have been borrowed at early IE stages, what could explain the difficulty to attach them to PIE by the common phonetic laws of evolution)
The first and principal aim of this thread was inter-understanding between Gaulish and Latin so it needed some words for comparison.
I added the supposed (and effective) cognates between Celtic and Slavic languages to answer to some question in another thread about this very matter, and also to show that family with family, we can found a lot of cognates, IE for the most, not all of them by force (some linguists think by example bran is not Celtic by origin, maybe even not IE; I put it here just as an uncertain other possibility because bran is feminine and then thook regularly the form vran/frân ([vra:n] too) after the article; Celtic at the origin didn't accept words beginning with V- at absolute initial, only by lenition.
Here you have the reasons of this short preceding post of mine, not complete, by the way.
IF YOU HAVE ACCEPTED ETYMOLOGIES FOR THESE WORDS (it was not my goal nor this thread goal), YOU MAY POST THEM, and you will not be criticed. You 'll be welcome.
 
What I wrote was not aimed specifically at anyone, but about the whole topic and, accordingly, with specific examples from the topic. I don't have time to go through all of them.
Who is confused is evident from expressions such as "considered as" or "coming of supposed".
None of the languages ​​mentioned is a descendant of PIE. They are not even IE by origin. The only thing that makes them part of this formal group today are the borrowings or common loans from the only IE language by origin or for clarity PIE.
In other words, logically, these languages ​​have different times of historical and cultural origin and a different geographical place of origin, which makes them literally unrelated to PIE. Genetics also supports my claim.
page 180
https://ibl.bas.bg/lib/ber/#page/274/mode/2up
page 762
https://ibl.bas.bg/lib/ber_4_000-1004/#page/762/mode/2up
 
What I wrote was not aimed specifically at anyone, but about the whole topic and, accordingly, with specific examples from the topic. I don't have time to go through all of them.
Who is confused is evident from expressions such as "considered as" or "coming of supposed".
None of the languages ​​mentioned is a descendant of PIE. They are not even IE by origin. The only thing that makes them part of this formal group today are the borrowings or common loans from the only IE language by origin or for clarity PIE.
In other words, logically, these languages ​​have different times of historical and cultural origin and a different geographical place of origin, which makes them literally unrelated to PIE. Genetics also supports my claim.
page 180
https://ibl.bas.bg/lib/ber/#page/274/mode/2up
page 762
https://ibl.bas.bg/lib/ber_4_000-1004/#page/762/mode/2up


With the same reasoning you and I can say French is not a Romance language which itself was not a Latin Language.
Every language evolves naturally, phonetically and by words derivation/creation (more or less quickly it's true), with external influences too, OK, and loanwords. So French of today is not French; your point is not stupid but doesn't help because how to name a language? Change naming every generation, everyday even, and for everybody too? The are too much common roots and common "bricks" (minimal elements) shared by what we call IE languages to ignore they came from a common language. Or you have a new theory like an unique sprachbund made of convergent waves from very distinct languages?
 
@Blablabla
Maybe are you introducing the notion that today so called IE languages are strongly influenced by substrata of pop's which weren't IEan at first?
almost all of us are OK here, then.
 

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