T Haplogroup Caucasus

Some people can tell on the basis of the matched numbers how many years ago there was a commonly ancestor.. Is here someone who can have a look and guess how many years ago I had a commonly ancestor with the guy from Czech Republic, thank you.
 
Alpenjager said:
Well Hamed, are you participating in YFull? Do you know which is your branch downstream of Y3781?

Your teacher doesn't seems know so much about T-M184 haplogroup but anyway Im glad to find some interest. There is nothing about a mass murderer of T people more than suffered by other lineages. Probably the high movility nature of T lineages is the cause this lineage have not been strongly fixed in a specific geographical place.

There are several T branches unrelated in recent times between them inhabiting close regions.
Actually we don't know of any study that find T1a-M70 individuals in the Middle East in Prehistoric times not even in Anatolian nor Caucasus soil. This should mean something after all.

If do you want to make a strong theory, I recommend to you to take a look into my T-M184 phylogenetic tree work here:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/23/Phylogenetic_T-M184_tree.png


About Dravidians: Haplogroup T among them is understudied but anyway is mostly an off shot of a northern migration into South Asia and perhaps other minor migrations like seafearers. Most of Dravidian populations lack of T-M184 lineages.
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I didnt know the 'tree' was youre work, very very nice done!
 
Alpenjager,today i joined the T project.
I have a question for you since you asked me about my downstream of y3781.
There are 4 downstreams from that tree you sent me its link.I was tested negative for all of them: y3758 y3782 y9102 and y21017.
Hence on that tree,I correspond no further than y3781 which is 8500 ybp.
So what does that mean ? How can I test for further snps which are closer in time?
Btw if that tree is your work, I would like to congratulate and thank you for such an amazing work.
 
Hamed said:
Alpenjager,today i joined the T project.
I have a question for you since you asked me about my downstream of y3781.
There are 4 downstreams from that tree you sent me its link.I was tested negative for all of them: y3758 y3782 y9102 and y21017.
Hence on that tree,I correspond no further than y3781 which is 8500 ybp.
So what does that mean ? How can I test for further snps which are closer in time?
Btw if that tree is your work, I would like to congratulate and thank you for such an amazing work.
Click to expand...

You are negative for Y3824- that is equivalent to Y3858. But you have NO CALL for Y21017 and equivalent SNPs. So, you still dont know if you are positive or not for this last SNP. There are good chances that you belong to FGC65011.

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Y-Haplogroup-K2/default.aspx?section=ysnp Your Y21017 appear as "Y21017*" not "-" nor "+".
 
Thanks.
About my tribal or ethnic origin : I was born in Iran.My grandfather was born in Baku city of Azerbaijan.His father was from North Caucasus in the Daghestani region.
 
Hamed, I find your Elamite theory absolutely fascinating. My haplotype is T as well. My great-grandfathers were Kurds who migrated from Iran to South Caucasus in 16th century.
 
Hamed said:
Thanks.
About my tribal or ethnic origin : I was born in Iran.My grandfather was born in Baku city of Azerbaijan.His father was from North Caucasus in the Daghestani region.
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great
your line could even be from kazaks as many T people are found there .............6% of T ydna marker found in Altai area of Kazakhstan
.
 
Thanks Caucasus for sharing.Thats fascinating.
How where you able to track your ancestors back to 16th century to Kurdistan as many records after 18th century in Iran are completly destroyed?
Also which part of south caucasus you are from?
 
Dear Alpenger, you sent a link about the names and countries of Haplo T which was very usefull.
In arabic I found an important name.It was sharif Maher Rashwan Al-Jamazi Al-Husayni.
This is a very prominant tribe in Egypt and Saoudi Arabia which have a direct paternal Genealogy all the way to the prophet Muhammad who also was a direct descendant of Ismael and Abraham.Their geneology is authenticated by arab genealogy scholars.
If that is so,this gives us more fascinating information about haplo T.Ishmael must have had the same dna as his brother Isaac and the children of Israel.
Could the tribe of Israel be haplo T? Would the reason why Haplo T beeing so scattered in low pourcentages be because the children of Israel where massacred and scattered around the world as predicted in the Bible?
What do you guys think?
 
Hamed said:
Dear Alpenger, you sent a link about the names and countries of Haplo T which was very usefull.
In arabic I found an important name.It was sharif Maher Rashwan Al-Jamazi Al-Husayni.
This is a very prominant tribe in Egypt and Saoudi Arabia which have a direct paternal Genealogy all the way to the prophet Muhammad who also was a direct descendant of Ismael and Abraham.Their geneology is authenticated by arab genealogy scholars.
If that is so,this gives us more fascinating information about haplo T.Ishmael must have had the same dna as his brother Isaac and the children of Israel.
Could the tribe of Israel be haplo T? Would the reason why Haplo T beeing so scattered in low pourcentages be because the children of Israel where massacred and scattered around the world as predicted in the Bible?
What do you guys think?
Click to expand...

Can you tell us the kit number of Al Husayni?

I don't think remotely possible that T is linked in any way to children of Israel as a whole. perhaps one of his branches who knows. There is one unique confirmed link between Jews of two different branches, you can find it downstream T1a1a1a1a1a1a1a1a2c-PF4074
 
Hamed said:
Dear Alpenger, you sent a link about the names and countries of Haplo T which was very usefull.
In arabic I found an important name.It was sharif Maher Rashwan Al-Jamazi Al-Husayni.
This is a very prominant tribe in Egypt and Saoudi Arabia which have a direct paternal Genealogy all the way to the prophet Muhammad who also was a direct descendant of Ismael and Abraham.Their geneology is authenticated by arab genealogy scholars.
If that is so,this gives us more fascinating information about haplo T.Ishmael must have had the same dna as his brother Isaac and the children of Israel.
Could the tribe of Israel be haplo T? Would the reason why Haplo T beeing so scattered in low pourcentages be because the children of Israel where massacred and scattered around the world as predicted in the Bible?
What do you guys think?
Click to expand...

Wow, Hamed very interesting. Nice research work! I think to know the origin of haplogroup T, you must not only study the scientific part but also the (religious) part to know which folks were of haplogroup T in the past.
 
The kit number M9153 .Please not that there many more.On the arabic sites,there is quite a bit of members belonging to Al Unzah tribe,Bakr tribe,Rabiah tribe; all belonging to Haplo T. These arab tribes are called Adnani tribes.All offshoots of a man called Adnan the 4th grandson of Ishmael.Arab tribes are great people to study since they lived in their tribal system until this day.They kept their genealogies and rarely mixed with others.
 
Hamed said:
Dear Alpenger, you sent a link about the names and countries of Haplo T which was very usefull.
In arabic I found an important name.It was sharif Maher Rashwan Al-Jamazi Al-Husayni.
This is a very prominant tribe in Egypt and Saoudi Arabia which have a direct paternal Genealogy all the way to the prophet Muhammad who also was a direct descendant of Ismael and Abraham.Their geneology is authenticated by arab genealogy scholars.
If that is so,this gives us more fascinating information about haplo T.Ishmael must have had the same dna as his brother Isaac and the children of Israel.
Could the tribe of Israel be haplo T? Would the reason why Haplo T beeing so scattered in low pourcentages be because the children of Israel where massacred and scattered around the world as predicted in the Bible?
What do you guys think?
Click to expand...
If you want to relate Haplogroups with biblical tribes..........then T is part of the Madai ( Medes )
http://shroud-physics.com/2017/09/y-chromosomal-levi/
haplogroup LT Japheth> Madai (Father of the Medes)
.
http://www.ldolphin.org/ntable.html
.
biblical studies state the Madai are the only Arians/Aryans
 
As “Entertainment” I read the latest few posts.
Reset + Reality Check.
I’m not an expert of genetics, but even I can tell when some of the assumptions posted are nothing more than Wishful Thinking driven by an Agenda.
Nothing more than Bias. Science, Politics, and Religions all mixed up together.

An example is also in one of the links posted.
The author First try to preserve his reputation, and then he goes on in to more exotic statements.

“ ... All these stories (together with the religious traditions behind them) seem, not merely false, but ridiculously false if our mathematics of genetic inheritance is Darwinian. But everything changes if we use the more sophisticated formulas of analytic number theory sketched above, and in the light of these formulas, the credibility of these stories can be restored .... “
 
Salento said:
As “Entertainment” I read the latest few posts.
Reset + Reality Check.
I’m not an expert of genetics, but even I can tell when some of the assumptions posted are nothing more than Wishful Thinking driven by an Agenda.
Nothing more than Bias. Science, Politics, and Religions all mixed up together.

An example is also in one of the links posted.
The author First try to preserve his reputation, and then he goes on in to more exotic statements.

“ ... All these stories (together with the religious traditions behind them) seem, not merely false, but ridiculously false if our mathematics of genetic inheritance is Darwinian. But everything changes if we use the more sophisticated formulas of analytic number theory sketched above, and in the light of these formulas, the credibility of these stories can be restored .... “
Click to expand...

I agree, all religious texts have a very high percentage of fabrication, lost men with dreams, we still see these people today.
 
Hamed said:
The kit number M9153 .Please not that there many more.On the arabic sites,there is quite a bit of members belonging to Al Unzah tribe,Bakr tribe,Rabiah tribe; all belonging to Haplo T. These arab tribes are called Adnani tribes.All offshoots of a man called Adnan the 4th grandson of Ishmael.Arab tribes are great people to study since they lived in their tribal system until this day.They kept their genealogies and rarely mixed with others.
Click to expand...

I found information about a Al Husayni clan from Palestina but I dont know if is the same as the Arabian one. Can you provide me with a link with information?

Al Rabiah tribe is added in the tree, you can find him downstream T1a1a1a1a1a1a1a1a2b-Y16021 but belongs to a totally different branch. About Bakr tribe is not added because they have not tested further deep and belongs to a possible Viking branch.

I have not added any Unzah sample yet. If do you know any kit number, I will study it.
 
Hamed, I am originally from Azerbaijan Republic as well. It is interesting that your grandfather moved to Iran during Bolshevik revolution.
Russian scholars have researched the historic settlements in Caucasus fairly well. In late 16th century, Shah Abbas settled 32 Azeri tribes, 24 Kurdish tribes in mountainous Garabagh region of Azerbaijan to create a buffer zone against Ottomans. They even provided the names of these tribes. According to Russian scholars, all these Shiite tribes were moved from Khorasan province but I think they were most likely moved from Azerbaijan and Kurdistan provinces.
Furthermore, as part of Russian-Persian peace treaties- Gulustan and Turkmenchay (1813, 1826/28), Azeris, Kurds and Armenians moved to Garabagh as well. But during this phase, however, the majority of these settlers were Armenians who later turned out to be a big headache and ethnically cleansed upper Garabagh of Azeri-Kurdish population in 1990s.
I looked at some of your posts and understood that your grandfathers are also from Azerbaijan Republic. Is that correct? If so, there is a good probability that they were also from Garabagh settling in Baku since it was an industrial city.
 
Very Interesting.It certaintly explaines many things for me.
Theres another factor of haplogroup T in the Caucasus.
In the 7th century AD an arab general by the name of Abd-Rahman ibn Rabiah invaded the caucasus with many men of his tribe(Rabiah Tribe).He was sent by the Khalifa of his time.He conquered South-Caucasus and went up as far as Daghestan.
His descendants and tribes descendants stayed there and even ruled there.
There is also a big arab tribe who ruled Armenia (back then what was called Armenia was a huge part of the caucasus) called Banu Shayban.
Banu shayban and Banu Rabiah are an offshoot of Bani Bakr bin Wail.They are Adnanites(direct descendants of Adnaan....Adnaan is a grands0n of Ishmaeil son of Abraham.
If you go to arab sites for y dna research(you must know arabic) you will clearly see many people of Banu Rabiah and other offshoots of Shaybanis and even smaller tribes descendants of Bakr bin Wael are all haplogroup T.
This might also point out some of the origins of haplogroup T in the caucasus.For me this theory and yours makes alot of sense. I and my brothers look like arab men from the desert.Alot of the men from the caucasus are of fair complexion.
[h=1][/h]
 
Hamed, I think your research is very impressive and insightful. However, I dont believe that Haplogroup T is an Arab Marker. I firmly believe birthplace of T is modern-day Iran (Elamaite-Mede theory is very convincing to me). I think the presence of T in some tribes you mention has more to do with the fact that they have Jewish roots. Even the Gureysh tribe is believed to have a Jewish descent. It is no wonder that there is so much similarity between Judaism and Islam in so many ways despite the hateful rivalry between them. During the reign of Persian-Median Empire, lots of Jews in Babylonian captivity that were set free, and different parts of Persian Empire including Iran, migrated back to build their destroyed temple in Jerusalem. By the way, some of these Persian speaking Jews live in Azerbaijan Republic to this day... The dominance of Haplogroup in isolated Iranian communities like Zorastrians, Bakhtiaris etc further testifies to the pure Iranian origin of this haplogroup. In other words, this T migrated to the rest of the Middle East, Greece, Balkans from modern-day Iran when the Persian Empire was in its heydays and controlled big swaths of lands. Because of Caucasus's proximity to Iran, their strong historical ties thought such a long period of time, it comes as no surprise to see relative prevalence of T in Caucasus.
A few villages in Mil-Mughan area of Azerbaijan which may have been established by Arabs when they invaded Caucasus(if I am not mistaken there is a village called Arablar in Kurdemir district). But I have a strong hunch they would belong to J rather than T.
 
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