The Genomic History of the Bronze Age Southern Levant (Agranat-Tamir et al. 2020)

[Maciamo]

Assyrian Empire was by far way greater than Neo-Babylonian Empire. It included Egypt as well. A bunch of Phoenicians because of Assyrian pressure took a fleet and founded Carthage on the shores of Tunisia to run away from Assyrian cruelty.

You are talking about the Neo-Assyrian Empire (911–609 BCE), which did take over the Levant and even Egypt at its apex in 671 BCE, not the Old Assyrian Empire (2025-1522 BCE) that matches the time frame of this study.

 

[Shahmiri]

The Akkadians bordered the Zagros and South Caucasus. My argument is that their expansion and pressure on their neighbour would have displaced part of the region's population to the Levant.

The paper clearly shows that those people who migrated from the Zagros-Caucasus to the Levant were not Indo-European genetically.

The question is not that who caused the migration but who were the immigrants, it seems to be clear that Semitic people didn't migrate from the Zagros and South Caucasus to the Levant, the paper talks about the 3rd and 2nd millennium BC when Indo-European immigrants came to this region, I don't know why you say they couldn't be Indo-European.

 

[Maciamo]

The question is not that who caused the migration but who were the immigrants, it seems to be clear that Semitic people didn't migrate from the Zagros and South Caucasus to the Levant, the paper talks about the 3rd and 2nd millennium BC when Indo-European immigrants came to this region, I don't know why you say they couldn't be Indo-European.

Just look at the haplogroups from this study. The migrants were primarily J1, with minorities of E1b1b, J2, T1a and only one R1b. That blend looks almost stereotypically Semitic.

Btw, the map you posted is from the Mitanni period (1500-1300 BCE), so once again after the migration period in the study (2500-1500 BCE). Obviously the Mitanni were Indo-European and the other IE people to their north were Proto-Armenians. We already have Proto-Armenian DNA, and they had a lot of R1b. So it's obvious that the South Caucasians who migrated to the Levant left before the Proto-Armenians arrived. It could also be that the Proto-Armenians and Mitanni pushed them away toward the Levant. They would have been crushed between the Assyrians to their south and the Mitanni coming from the east and the Proto-Armenians coming from the north or west.

 

[Hawk]

You are talking about the Neo-Assyrian Empire (911–609 BCE), which did take over the Levant and even Egypt at its apex in 671 BCE, not the Old Assyrian Empire (2025-1522 BCE) that matches the time frame of this study.

That's true, but i was referring to the timeline of Neo-Babylonian Empire since you mentioned it.

 

[Shahmiri]

Just look at the haplogroups from this study. The migrants were primarily J1, with minorities of E1b1b, J2, T1a and only one R1b. That blend looks almost stereotypically Semitic.

Btw, the map you posted is from the Mitanni period (1500-1300 BCE), so once again after the migration period in the study (2500-1500 BCE). Obviously the Mitanni were Indo-European and the other IE people to their north were Proto-Armenians. We already have Proto-Armenian DNA, and they had a lot of R1b. So it's obvious that the South Caucasians who migrated to the Levant left before the Proto-Armenians arrived. It could also be that the Proto-Armenians and Mitanni pushed them away toward the Levant. They would have been crushed between the Assyrians to their south and the Mitanni coming from the east and the Proto-Armenians coming from the north or west.

As you read in the paper: "The majority of the samples date to the Middle Bronze III-Late Bronze I (ca. 1650–1400 BCE)." It is the same time that we see the influence of Indo-Iranian culture in the Levant, from Mitanni culture in Syria to the culture of Hyksos people in Egypt.
Indo-European haplogroups should be those ones which relate to ancient Indo-European people.

 

[kingdavid]

by the way i notice now when i looked
in supplemental table S:1
that one female from the baqah jordan
dated to late bronze age 1424-1288 BC
carry mtdna L0f2b :cool2:

 

[Angela]

by the way i notice now when i looked
in supplemental table S:1
that one female from the baqah jordan
dated to late bronze age 1424-1288 BC
carry mtdna L0f2b :cool2:

Same thing happened with Spain, yes, some early SSA maternal haplogroups.

It's highly unlikely, imo, that the SSA entered the Levant only with the Arab Slave Trade, although that may be when the majority of it arrived.

 

[Shahmiri]

It is good to read about Hyksos: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyksos

The chariot had initially been introduced to the Middle East by Indo-Iranians. The Hyksos were also responsible for introducing the horse into Egypt, and rode them in all their wars. Chariots had earlier played a key role in the conquests by the Hittites in Anatolia, the Indo-Iranians in northern India, and the Mycenaeans in Greece.
Contemporary with the Hyksos, there was a widespread Indo-Aryan expansion in central and south Asia. The arrival of the Hyksos in Egypt, along with the arrival of the Hurrians in Syria and the Kassites in Babylonia, has been connected with this migration. The Hyksos used the same horsedrawn chariot as the Indo-Aryans, and Egyptian sources mention a rapid conquest. While the majority of the Hyksos are thought to have been Semitic, the Hyksos are usually believed to have contained Indo-Europeans and Hurrians among the leadership. According to William L. Ochsenwald, it is certain that the Hyksos contained Hurrians who were under Indo-Aryan rule and influence. Claude Frédéric-Armand Schaeffer states that the Hyksos were related to the Hurrians and the Mitanni. While the names of the earliest or "Lesser Hyksos" rulers are Semitic, names of later or "Greater Hyksos" rulers have been identified as having Indo-Aryan, Hurrian or uncertain etymologies. These names are associated with the second wave of Hyksos invasion in the 17th century BC, which was composed of a mixed group of well organized warriors that were different from the earlier Asiatic Hyksos princes that arrived in Egypt in the 18th century BC. John Bright cites this as evidence that there might have been an Indo-Aryan element among the Hyksos. Philip Khuri Hitti wrote that the Hyksos were a mixed group which in addition to Semites included Hurrians, Hittites, Mitanni and Habiru. Hitti connected the arrival of the Hyksos with the Indo-European migrations at the time, and cites the introduction of the horse and the chariot by them to Egypt as evidence of their Indo-European connections.

 

[kingdavid]

someone run them( snp) it look like.....( other forum)

Y chr Haplogroup assignments:

I7182 Yehud J2b
I2189 Megiddo_MLBA_family4 R1a1a1:F3551/V8042/PF6231
I2190 Megiddo_MLBA J2a1a1a2b2a1a:Z509/PF5155
I2195 Megiddo_MLBA J1a2a1a2d2:FGC1677/Z2326
I2198 Megiddo_MLBA J1a2a1a2d2b2

F4849/Z1855
I2201 Abel T1a1a1b2b2b1a1a2:CTS6280
I3965 Hazor J1a2a1a2d2b2b2

F4881/YSC0000235
I3966 Hazor E1b1b1b2a1a:M34/PF2022/L797/Z1146/PF2016
I4517 Megiddo_IA J1a2a1a2d2b2b2c2:S16807/S21060
I4518 Megiddo_MLBA T1a1a1b2:CTS2214
I4519 Megiddo_MLBA_family1 J2a1a1a2b2a1a:M92
I4521 Megiddo_IBA J2b
I4525 Megiddo_MLBA J1a2a1a2:AM01339/PF4826/Z1874
I6461 Baqah_family6 J1a2a1a2d2b2b

F4843/Z2324
I6464 Baqah J1a2a1a2d2b2b2c3:FGC63758/HU80
I6566 Baqah J1a2a1a2d2b2b2c4b1:FGC8223/V7510/Y3441
I6569 Baqah J1a2a1a2d2b2b2c4b:FGC8182/V5320/Y2920/FGC8185/ZS219/Y5761
I6459 Baqah J1a2a1a2d2b2b2c4b1c:FGC8224/Y3442
I6460 Baqah J1a2a1a2d2b2b2c4b:FGC8182/V5320/Y2920/FGC8185/ZS219/Y5761
I3985 Baqah J1a2a1a2d2b2b2c4b:FGC8185/ZS219/Y5761
I3987 Baqah J1a2a1a2d2b2b2c4b1:FGC8223/V7510/Y3441
I3705 Baqah J1a2a1a2d2b2b2c4b:FGC8182/V5320/Y2920/FGC8185/ZS219/Y5761
I3706 Baqah J1a2a1a2d2b2b2c4b1c:FGC8224/Y3442
I3703 Baqah J1a2a1a2d2b2b2c4b1c:FGC8224/Y3442
I6928 Yehud_low_coverage J2b
I6923 Yehud J2b
I7003 Yehud J2b
I10093 Megiddo_MLBA J1a2a1a2d2b2b

F4843/Z2324
I10101 Megiddo_MLBA_family3 J1a2a1a2

58/PAGE8/PF4698/PAGES00008
I10104 Megiddo_MLBA J1
I10106 Megiddo_MLBA J1a2a1a2d2

F4854/YSC0000183/Z2320
I10264 Megiddo_MLBA J1a2a1a2d2b2:CTS11719/PF4863/Z1888
I10266 Megiddo_MLBA J2a2a1a:Z28375
I10268 Megiddo_MLBA J1a2a1a2d2b2b2c2:S21060
I10269 Megiddo_MLBA_low_coverage R
I10359 Megiddo_MLBA J1a2a1a2d2:CTS2453/PF4806/Z2319/FGC1677/Z2326
I10361 Megiddo_MLBA_family3 J1a2a1:AM01312/CTS4376/Z1861
I8187 Megiddo_MLBA J1a2a1a2d2b2b2

F4881/YSC0000235
I8188 Megiddo_MLBA_family2 J1a2a1a2d2b:Z1853
S10769.E1.L1 Megiddo_MLBA E1b1b1b2a1a:M34/PF2022/L797/Z1146/PF2016
S10770.E1.L1 Megiddo_MLBA E1b1b1b2a1a1:L29/PAGE47/PAGES00047
S10768.E1.L1 Megiddo_MLBA R1b1a1b:M269


List of derived and ancestral snps for each sample.

 

[Angela]

someone run them( snp) it look like.....( other forum)

Y chr Haplogroup assignments:

I7182 Yehud J2b
I2189 Megiddo_MLBA_family4 R1a1a1:F3551/V8042/PF6231
I2190 Megiddo_MLBA J2a1a1a2b2a1a:Z509/PF5155
I2195 Megiddo_MLBA J1a2a1a2d2:FGC1677/Z2326
I2198 Megiddo_MLBA J1a2a1a2d2b2

F4849/Z1855
I2201 Abel T1a1a1b2b2b1a1a2:CTS6280
I3965 Hazor J1a2a1a2d2b2b2

F4881/YSC0000235
I3966 Hazor E1b1b1b2a1a:M34/PF2022/L797/Z1146/PF2016
I4517 Megiddo_IA J1a2a1a2d2b2b2c2:S16807/S21060
I4518 Megiddo_MLBA T1a1a1b2:CTS2214
I4519 Megiddo_MLBA_family1 J2a1a1a2b2a1a:M92
I4521 Megiddo_IBA J2b
I4525 Megiddo_MLBA J1a2a1a2:AM01339/PF4826/Z1874
I6461 Baqah_family6 J1a2a1a2d2b2b

F4843/Z2324
I6464 Baqah J1a2a1a2d2b2b2c3:FGC63758/HU80
I6566 Baqah J1a2a1a2d2b2b2c4b1:FGC8223/V7510/Y3441
I6569 Baqah J1a2a1a2d2b2b2c4b:FGC8182/V5320/Y2920/FGC8185/ZS219/Y5761
I6459 Baqah J1a2a1a2d2b2b2c4b1c:FGC8224/Y3442
I6460 Baqah J1a2a1a2d2b2b2c4b:FGC8182/V5320/Y2920/FGC8185/ZS219/Y5761
I3985 Baqah J1a2a1a2d2b2b2c4b:FGC8185/ZS219/Y5761
I3987 Baqah J1a2a1a2d2b2b2c4b1:FGC8223/V7510/Y3441
I3705 Baqah J1a2a1a2d2b2b2c4b:FGC8182/V5320/Y2920/FGC8185/ZS219/Y5761
I3706 Baqah J1a2a1a2d2b2b2c4b1c:FGC8224/Y3442
I3703 Baqah J1a2a1a2d2b2b2c4b1c:FGC8224/Y3442
I6928 Yehud_low_coverage J2b
I6923 Yehud J2b
I7003 Yehud J2b
I10093 Megiddo_MLBA J1a2a1a2d2b2b

F4843/Z2324
I10101 Megiddo_MLBA_family3 J1a2a1a2

58/PAGE8/PF4698/PAGES00008
I10104 Megiddo_MLBA J1
I10106 Megiddo_MLBA J1a2a1a2d2

F4854/YSC0000183/Z2320
I10264 Megiddo_MLBA J1a2a1a2d2b2:CTS11719/PF4863/Z1888
I10266 Megiddo_MLBA J2a2a1a:Z28375
I10268 Megiddo_MLBA J1a2a1a2d2b2b2c2:S21060
I10269 Megiddo_MLBA_low_coverage R
I10359 Megiddo_MLBA J1a2a1a2d2:CTS2453/PF4806/Z2319/FGC1677/Z2326
I10361 Megiddo_MLBA_family3 J1a2a1:AM01312/CTS4376/Z1861
I8187 Megiddo_MLBA J1a2a1a2d2b2b2

F4881/YSC0000235
I8188 Megiddo_MLBA_family2 J1a2a1a2d2b:Z1853
S10769.E1.L1 Megiddo_MLBA E1b1b1b2a1a:M34/PF2022/L797/Z1146/PF2016
S10770.E1.L1 Megiddo_MLBA E1b1b1b2a1a1:L29/PAGE47/PAGES00047
S10768.E1.L1 Megiddo_MLBA R1b1a1b:M269


List of derived and ancestral snps for each sample.

Are they sure about that R1a1a1? Somebody get lost?

 

[kingdavid]

Are they sure about that R1a1a1? Somebody get lost?

no he probably arrived from the steppe ( according to davidski blog)

The Megiddo samples, dated to 1600-1500 BCE, include a trio of interesting outliers with significant ancestry from the steppe. One of these individuals is a male, I2189, who belongs to Y-haplogroup R and probably R1a. So he might also be of Indo-Aryan origin.

Another Megiddo male, S10768, belongs to R1b-M269 and probably shows a few per cent of steppe ancestry. I've already discussed how R1b and steppe ancestry may have ended up in the Bronze Age Near East in a couple of my previous posts


p.s
about the person who run those samples ( snp calls)
i think he knows and have enough experience .....

 

[Angela]

Interesting. After the peak of this Canaanite city's power, and just before the Battle of Megiddo and the domination by the Egyptians.

I need to do some digging around.

 

[Angela]

Well, 12189, which the authors just called "R", and 12200 are siblings, children, so they better be almost the same autosomally, or something is wrong.

 

[kingdavid]

Interesting. After the peak of this Canaanite city's power, and just before the Battle of Megiddo and the domination by the Egyptians.

I need to do some digging around.

Amazing isn't it

 

[Shahmiri]

no he probably arrived from the steppe ( according to davidski blog)

The Megiddo samples, dated to 1600-1500 BCE, include a trio of interesting outliers with significant ancestry from the steppe. One of these individuals is a male, I2189, who belongs to Y-haplogroup R and probably R1a. So he might also be of Indo-Aryan origin.

Another Megiddo male, S10768, belongs to R1b-M269 and probably shows a few per cent of steppe ancestry. I've already discussed how R1b and steppe ancestry may have ended up in the Bronze Age Near East in a couple of my previous posts


p.s
about the person who run those samples ( snp calls)
i think he knows and have enough experience .....

I certainly agree but it shows R1a1a1 and R1b-M269 were Indo-Iranian haplogroups, not Proto-Indo-European.

 

[halfalp]

Middle-East Chalcolithic/Bronze Age probably was a paradise of civilization for Steppe people, or any other foreigners when they came there. Huge cities-states with high structures and sculptures, lots of people, hugh wealth... not that hard to think that any Steppe lineage could have lost itself into this new world of many possibilities.

 

[Shahmiri]

Middle-East Chalcolithic/Bronze Age probably was a paradise of civilization for Steppe people, or any other foreigners when they came there. Huge cities-states with high structures and sculptures, lots of people, hugh wealth... not that hard to think that any Steppe lineage could have lost itself into this new world of many possibilities.

Of course you know these samples with R1a and R1b haplogroups date back to about 1500 BC when most of this paradise of civilization was under the rule of Indo-Europeans such as Hittites and Mitanni.

 

[halfalp]

Of course you know these samples with R1a and R1b haplogroups date back to about 1500 BC when most of this paradise of civilization was under the rule of Indo-Europeans such as Hittites and Mitanni.

It was not, i presume. Indo-Europeans in Middle-East were at last an opportunistic luck. There was many more other ethnics and languages in the near-by.

 

[kingdavid]

Well, 12189, which the authors just called "R", and 12200 are siblings, children, so they better be almost the same autosomally, or something is wrong.

from the paper:
The two outliers from Megiddo (three including the sibling pair) provide additional evidence for the timing and origin of gene flow into the region. The three were found in close proximity to each other at Level K-10, which is radiocarbon dated to 1581–1545 BCE (domestic occupation) and 1578–1421 BCE (burials; both ± 1 s) (Martin et al., 2020
, Toffolo et al., 2014
), whereas the bone of one of the three (I10100) was directly dated (1688–1535 BCE, ± 2Σ). The reason these individuals are distinct from the rest is that their Caucasus- or Zagros-related genetic component is much higher, reflecting ongoing gene flow into the region from the northeast (Table S2; Figure S2B). The Neolithic Levant component is 22%–27% in I2200, and 9%–26% in I10100. These individuals are unlikely to be first generation migrants, as strontium isotope analysis on the two outlier siblings (I2189 and I2200) (Methods S1A) suggests that they were raised locally. This implies that the Megiddo outliers might be descendants of people who arrived in recent generations. Direct support for this hypothesis comes from the fact that in sensitive qpAdm modeling (including closely related sets of outgroups), the only working northeast source population for these two individuals is the contemporaneous Armenia_MLBA, whereas the earlier Iran_ChL and Armenia_EBA do not fit (Table S2). The addition of Iran_ChL to the set of outgroups does not change this result or cause model failure. Finally, no other Levantine group shows a similar admixture pattern (Table S2). This shows that some level of gene flow into the Levant took place during the later phases of the Bronze Age and suggests that the source of this gene flow was the Caucasus

 

[Angela]

from the paper:
The two outliers from Megiddo (three including the sibling pair) provide additional evidence for the timing and origin of gene flow into the region. The three were found in close proximity to each other at Level K-10, which is radiocarbon dated to 1581–1545 BCE (domestic occupation) and 1578–1421 BCE (burials; both ± 1 s) (Martin et al., 2020
, Toffolo et al., 2014
), whereas the bone of one of the three (I10100) was directly dated (1688–1535 BCE, ± 2Σ). The reason these individuals are distinct from the rest is that their Caucasus- or Zagros-related genetic component is much higher, reflecting ongoing gene flow into the region from the northeast (Table S2; Figure S2B). The Neolithic Levant component is 22%–27% in I2200, and 9%–26% in I10100. These individuals are unlikely to be first generation migrants, as strontium isotope analysis on the two outlier siblings (I2189 and I2200) (Methods S1A) suggests that they were raised locally. This implies that the Megiddo outliers might be descendants of people who arrived in recent generations. Direct support for this hypothesis comes from the fact that in sensitive qpAdm modeling (including closely related sets of outgroups), the only working northeast source population for these two individuals is the contemporaneous Armenia_MLBA, whereas the earlier Iran_ChL and Armenia_EBA do not fit (Table S2). The addition of Iran_ChL to the set of outgroups does not change this result or cause model failure. Finally, no other Levantine group shows a similar admixture pattern (Table S2). This shows that some level of gene flow into the Levant took place during the later phases of the Bronze Age and suggests that the source of this gene flow was the Caucasus

Thanks, kingjohn, I read that. I was referring to the fact that I've heard that bloggers claim the "R" child supposedly has "steppe" ancestry. I then heard that the other "outlier" samples don't show it. "IF" bloggers have found real steppe ancestry in that child, then it should be in the sibling. It's possible to see differing levels, perhaps, but none?

I probably shouldn't have mentioned it as it is double hearsay, but that was the genesis of my comment.