I don't think you can extrapolate from what Anatolian farmers or Italian serfs were eating in order to understand what Swedish peasants or Scottish crofters were eating. The regional differences, in terms of agricultural methods and socio-economic condtions, are just too great. So, as for the question of whether the mutation happened in Europe or was inherited from invaders from the steppes, I don't think we're any closer to having an answer as a result of all this discussion.
I don't think so either...that's why I said even in speculating I couldn't choose between the two options...it will have to await more ancient dna studies.
As to the early Neolithic Anatolians, I was replying sceptically to Greying Wanderer's suggestion that they were consuming bowls of milk. Since LBK people would have been unable to consume it, I doubt their ancestors in Anatolia were able to do so.
With regard to Swedish peasants, we're going around in circles. The ones in at least middle and northern Sweden, like the Finns, were not consuming dairy products until very late in their history. (Apparently, no one was interested enough to read the links I provided.
The studies were about England and Germany and Finland, not Italy.) The following are quotes from the Finland study:
" It is difficult to find a plausible scenario for an in situ selection process. Based on archaeological and historical data and genetic evidence (Itan et al. 2009; Malmström et al. 2010) we suggest that the observed high frequencies of LP variant C/T-13910 in Northern Europe can best be explained by strong directional selection that took place in Central Europe and was followed by a migration of people representing this culture to Northern Europe.The immigrants gradually re-placed the local hunter-gatherer populations. The genetic evidence for suchimmigration and assimilation has been found in Sweden, while in Finland archaeological evidence clearly indicates a change in material culture following a population bottleneck (Malmström et al. 2010; Sundell et al. 2010)."
The lack of support for an in situ development of lactase persistence is explained below.
"It is noteworthy that gene-culture co-evolution hypothesis for LP only appies to cultires in which fresh unfermented milk was consumed by both children and adults on a regular basis or at least during periods critical for survival. Importantly, consumption of fermented milk products alone could not have been a strong enough selective pressure for LP to become prevalent as even adults with hypolactasia are usually able to consume fermented milk products.
According to the ethnographic sources, in the Finnish traditional agriculture fresh milk was only consumed by children of one to two years of age during the 18th and 19th centuries (Talve 1997;Vuorela 1998).Adults did not consume fresh milk as such, but predominantly fermented sourmilk, usually mixed with water, or occasionally in soups .
The historical sources from earlier periods seem to describe similar practices, as no milk or milk products except some butter and possibly small amounts of buttermilk were mentioned as a part of daily diet in the 16th-century Hämeenlinna Castle in Finland(Vilkuna 1998). Butter was an important taxation item. In Sweden, newborn calves were only allowed to suck their mothers for a few days, and were there-after fed skimmed milk; nearly all cream was used for making butter.
Second, even if adults had a preference for fresh milk, not enough milk was available for regular consumption. Cattle herding was neither widespread nor productive enough in Northern Europe to provide constant access to fresh milk.
In Finland, the earliest reliably dated domestic animal bones date to the Bronze Age, and even then they are found in restricted numbers in a restricted coastal area. It seems that in Finland, animal husbandry established itself as an important source of household economy not earlier than in the Iron Age (500 BCE to CE.
Before the adoption of hay cultivation, cattle could only be milked during the grazing period, usually from May to October in both Sweden and Finland (Myrdal 1999; Soininen 1974). In the 18th and 19th cen-turies milk yields were still modest, on the average only 400 to 500 liters of milk per year and per animal, compared to modern commercial dairy cows that produce 6,000 to 7,000 liters per year (Björnhag and Myrdal 1994). Finnish
farmers kept livestock mainly for haulage power in fieldwork and transport, and for manure to fertilize the fields (Soininen 1974). Animal energy and manure were thus the main products, with milk only a secondary product. During the longwinter feeding period (six to eight months), poor quality fodder (mainly straw) was often used, with the result of serious undernourishment in animals in both Sweden and Finland.
Corded Ware people have been connected to pastoralism in other parts of the Europe; it seems possible that they were carrying the T-13910allele, even if cattle breeding may not have been a major component in their economy in Finland. During the Bronze Age and Early Iron Age, there was also likely immigration to Finland from Sweden and the Baltic countries, but the magnitude of this migration is unknown."
Ed. Perhaps I am imagining things, in which case I apologize, but it seems to me that I detect some antagonism to my posts on this issue. I truly don't understand why that should be the case. I thought we were having a quasi scientific-historical discussion about the development of lactase persistence, and whether the consumption of large quantities of it in pre-history or even in the middle ages could be correleated with areas with high levels of the gene and high consumption today.
We're only talking about a
food after all. Why should it be such an emotional issue?
