K12 the West European component in the Dodecad project

In my case for example the West European was quite low compared to the Spanish average, while the East European was higher than the others. For the moment I am happier with the Eurogenes since I saw results with many European clusters, so I am waiting for a Dodecad run with a minimum of 4 European clusters to get something more accurate.

PD: There was a Dodecad run with Sardinian, Basque, NW European and NE European. I wonder what I could get in this one, but it was made before I started joining the project, and Dienekes' told me he didn't plan to run more participants there.
 
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The problem is just one of naming the cluster. It should be called North-West European or North European and not West European. By the way, I pointed out that this so-called "West European" cluster was generally higher than the East European one in North, Central and South Asia. I think that the explanation is that the "West European" component actually represents mostly the genes of Paleolithic I1 and I2b Northern Europeans, and that they inhabited all northern Europe from Ireland and Britain to Russia and Ukraine before being replaced by R1a and R1b. Studies have confirmed that R1 people have a higher sperm count than I people, and therefore R1 lineages could easily replace I linages by having a slightly higher percentage of boys each generation. That's why autosomal DNA doesn't match haplogroups. We shouldn't be comparing R1b and R1a regions, but look at what haplogroups were there before the R1 lineages eclipsed them.
 
Of course when you see other population results, it's easy to note that West European and East European clusters are linked to Northern Europe. In my opinion this is not the problem since we know what this means. The problem is just have one cluster for Southern Europe, when it's perfectly plausible to separate Southwest Europe and Southeast Europe.

This would be something similar, as I said, to the Sardinian and Basque component run, but a little bit more general, not anchored in two Isolated populations.
 
I wonder if there is a correlation between the high percentage of red haired people in the British islands and this west european component. In my opinion red hair is pre-celtic
feature in the British islands as it is unusual in other parts of western Europe.
 
an other explanation could be that the Q celtic population that peopled the islands during the late bronze age was completely northern european (netherland, north-west Germany) while other atlantic celts would have been mainly of Alpine origin
 
I read somewhere that it's posible Neanderthals had usually red-hair. However, people of the British Islands made the Neanderthal test genes on Interpretome, and I don't remember high levels of Neanderthal genes in them. The highest score of a 23andme member I think was 26 of 89 genes; Northern European descent and mostly Scandinavian.

My score for example was 13/89, and it's slightly high than others for what I saw, but nothing inusual. 26 is VERY high.

Ancient Neanderthal admixture is another posibility, but I must admit it's very difficult to prove, and no correlation for the little I observed.
 
spongetaro said:
I wonder if there is a correlation between the high percentage of red haired people in the British islands and this west european component. In my opinion red hair is pre-celtic
feature in the British islands as it is unusual in other parts of western Europe.
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I disagree with that. Red hair is not specific to the British Isles and is at least as common in countries like Norway or Belgium.
 
Knovas said:
I read somewhere that it's posible Neanderthals had usually red-hair. However, people of the British Islands made the Neanderthal test genes on Interpretome, and I don't remember high levels of Neanderthal genes in them. The highest score of a 23andme member I think was 26 of 89 genes; Northern European descent and mostly Scandinavian.

My score for example was 13/89, and it's slightly high than others for what I saw, but nothing inusual. 26 is VERY high.

Ancient Neanderthal admixture is another posibility, but I must admit it's very difficult to prove, and no correlation for the little I observed.
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I also think that red hair could have come from Neanderthal. The question is where did the admixture happen and survive ? Was it in North-West Europe, or rather in North-East Europe ?
 
Maciamo said:
I disagree with that. Red hair is not specific to the British Isles and is at least as common in countries like Norway or Belgium.
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the countries you mention have all strong west european component which I think the origin of red hair
 
Perhaps in the two places at the same time, it's not imposible they habited a vast territory in Northern Europe (note that all Europeans carry some Neanderthal genes, higher or less depending on the person). There's still a lot to investigate and, probaly, more Neanderthal genes to identify. Will be interesting to follow related reports.
 
spongetaro said:
the countries you mention have all strong west european component which I think the origin of red hair
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Sweedish, Duth and Germans have also a lot of West European component. Red hair exist in them, like sure in Belgium or Norway but ¿do you really think it's very significant?

The problem of red hair is that it's always a minority everywhere, althought perhaps it's true that in the British Isles it's higher in average. What I mean is that the West European component cannot be the only explanation for this, I think there is something we don't know.

Just a few concrete Neanderthal alleles can be enough to generate red hair, and the problem is that this genes are still unknown. ¿Why not?
 
Knovas said:
Just a few concrete Neanderthal alleles can be enough to generate red hair, and the problem is that this genes are still unknown. ¿Why not?
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red hair is linked to the gene MC1R:

Eighty percent of redheads have an MC1R gene variant,[5] and the prevalence of these alleles is highest in Scotland and Ireland. The alleles that code for red hair occur close to the alleles that affect skin color, so it seems that the phenotypic expression for lighter skin and red hair are interrelated.
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Knovas said:
The problem of red hair is that it's always a minority everywhere
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Red haired people are a minority in both Ireland and Scotland but nearly half of Scottish people carry the MC1R gene

Scotland has the highest proportion of redheads, as 13 percent of the population has red hair and approximately 40 percent carries the recessive redhead gene.[8] Ireland has the second highest percentage; as many as 10 percent of the Irish population have red, auburn, or strawberry blond hair.[9] Red hair reaches frequencies of up to 10 percent in Wales.[10].
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According to this it seems the gene is not related to Neanderthals. However, 23andme uses a genotype to see the posibilities for having red hair (I don't know if it's the same indicated here) and they don't take the genotype as determinant as for example the gene for light eyes. But well, if Wikipedia is not wrong like other times, it's the best clue right now.
 
I think I read on another forum that a particular area of West Asia has red hair frequencies higher than any European country.
 
Grey Moss said:
I think I read on another forum that a particular area of West Asia has red hair frequencies higher than any European country.
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Red hair was common among Jewish Khazars (Caucasus, southern Russia) as well as in some Turkish tribes. That's interesting since Neanderthals have been found as far east as Uzbekistan and even Siberia.
 
Maciamo said:
I think that the explanation is that the "West European" component actually represents mostly the genes of Paleolithic I1 and I2b Northern Europeans, and that they inhabited all northern Europe from Ireland and Britain to Russia and Ukraine before being replaced by R1a and R1b.
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it looks like European genetic (except for ydna) wasn't so much affected by the IE invasions since the main components in autosomal dna are pre-IE

Maciamo said:
I pointed out [/URL]that this so-called "West European" cluster was generally higher than the East European one in North, Central and South Asia.
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so I1,I2b or European mtdna went as far as south/northern Asia during Paleolithic times?
 
spongetaro said:
Red hair was common among Jewish Khazars (Caucasus, southern Russia) as well as in some Turkish tribes. That's interesting since Neanderthals have been found as far east as Uzbekistan and even Siberia.
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Interesting points.:good_job:
 
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