K12 the West European component in the Dodecad project

No red hair from Neanderthals in Europe, but posible in other places. Good spongetaro.

To my knowledge, ethnic Europeans have more Neanderthal genes. However, I mantain that it could be enough with a few concrete genes and, of course, there is not much (or there isn't...) information about Neanderthal genes on those populations, and the same could be said of other West Asians.

Some Ashkenazi Jews made the Interpretome test, but nothing relevant in them. Probably their samples are not useful for this.

PD: I was suposing there is not relevant red hair between Ashkenazis, basically because it's difficult to average them since they are spread for all places and have to many different appearences.
 
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Due to the fact of which all the alive organisms we are related, it turns out to be easier to find kinships between species that them to deny. Between the man of neanderthal and the modern man, it is known that there exists a common ancestor of an antiquity of half a million years, but there have not contradicted itself categorically more recent genetic interferences (nevertheless, the empirical studies proliferate and seem to abound in the hypothesis of non-interference).

I believe that the question that closes the previous paragraph (do the targets have a genetic heredity neandertal that other races do not possess?) she does not remain completely answered, but yes we can affirm that, in case of having inherited genes of the neandertal, we can be sure that they are scarce, without decisive influence in the fenotipo and proper of a limited part of the human population.

Just in case, the homo scientiphicus, in most cases, of white race, has hurried to extoll recently the figure of the neandertal, his cranial capacity, his cultural habits, etc.

Possibly, the neandertales were not red-haired, but big variety would exist already between them; what yes is an interesting hypothesis is that the gene of the red hair is only possible in lineages that have crossed with neandertales. The current red-haired ones are usually provided well with chin and lack, mostly, this side proper vision of the extinct prehistoric race. If really he was the principal progeny of the man of neandertal, that would mean that the form of the skull and the face have evolved rapidly in congruity with the nutritive habits. Nevertheless, there exist other Europeans who are not red-haired and who yes present some of the impressive facial characters of the original Europeans. It is not necessary to discard that certain European current features are a repetition in the homo sapiens of the adaptations who was enduring the homo erectus of Hidelberg on having become an European, happening for the homo antecessor up to the neanderthalensis. Nevertheless, it has not even had so much time, not even his ways of life and resources to adapt itself to the climate are the same than in the prehistoric times. Necessarily, the features "neandertaloides" that we find are a direct heredity of those characters.

http://www.eumed.net/libros/2011a/914/Reivindicacion%20del%20neandertal.htm
 
The labels of components are arbitrary, it could have been called Northwestern European, since it peaks in Irish/Norwegians. In the Eurogenes intra-european run they are two separate components, northern and western european, the first peaking in Scandinavians and the second in Pyreneans/Catalans.
 
The Eurogenes Western European is an spurious cluster, note that there are only 4 indidviduals with 100% Western European, and the rest of people there is nobody who gets 50% of it. Of course the interpretation for the four individuals is an strong genetic Isolate in the Pyrenees, but this cluster is not informative for the rest of people, and neither tells so much about Northern and Southern proportions, although more or less can be infered. Only shows that there are 4 individuals very closer to each other, nothing else.

Dodecad is not bad, in my opinion the problem is use only one cluster for Southern Europe (Mediterranean). 4 European clusters, East and West for the North and the South, would be enough to get something informative to see the origin of a population, and clarify the difference between Southern Europeans much more. Also there is the other problem in the averages, since I think populations recieve different results depending on the source, but this is less important.
 
http://blog.jattdna.org/?attachment_id=555

This "West European" component is really weird. In the map, Sweden appears more Western than France and Spain. Spain appears as "Western" as the Belarus.
What do you think?
The map is incorrect, because Spaniards have 42 % of West-European, while Belorussians have 28%. This map is more accurate :

scaled.php
 
The map is incorrect, because Spaniards have 42 % of West-European, while Belorussians have 28%. This map is more accurate :

scaled.php


Could the surprisingly higher scores in Pakistan, India, and Afghanistan of this Western European component (relative to the regions surrounding those countries that have much less) mean anything significant?
 
Could the surprisingly higher scores in Pakistan, India, and Afghanistan of this Western European component (relative to the regions surrounding those countries that have much less) mean anything significant?
What about the surprizing 5% in Mongolia and 9% in Siberia? I think that it should be named North-West Eurasian since it seems to correlate with exactly that area...otherwise 14% in NE Asia in comparison with 13% in Sicily and Greece don't make sense.
 
Scotland less western than England and Ireland, interesting. Knowing that the med component in Orcadians is fairly high and that Scots, Angles and viking invasions may have lower it, there is no doubt that Picts people also had a strong med component
 
Finland more western than Portugal...
It has already been said that Western includes also Northern euroepan, since it peaks in Scandinavians, and the european components are only West/East/Med
 
Could the surprisingly higher scores in Pakistan, India, and Afghanistan of this Western European component (relative to the regions surrounding those countries that have much less) mean anything significant?
It has probably to do with the Indo-Aryan and indo-euroepan invasions. That's why you also see a lot of R1a in those areas.
 
It has already been said that Western includes also Northern euroepan, since it peaks in Scandinavians, and the european components are only West/East/Med

then why lithuanians have only 32% of it if it includes Northern European
 
then why lithuanians have only 32% of it if it includes Northern European
Because in this run they appear much more Eastern european, they have near 70% East Euro, it's actually where it peaks, in Lithuanian
 
I wonder if there is a correlation between the high percentage of red haired people in the British islands and this west european component. In my opinion red hair is pre-celtic
feature in the British islands as it is unusual in other parts of western Europe.

late answer indeed!

Coon thought that red hairs was linked to his "paleolithic" populations...
but: red hairs is linked to more than a locus on the genom

this said, the maximum of every kind of red hairs in the worldis in the Scotland Highlands (official: 11%, my observations: 8-9%)
as a whole Ireland come first 7,5% (8% Ulster) vs 6,5% for Scotland - Wales: 4,5% as England (but some parts of Western Wales: 6 or 7% - and Eastern England: only 2,5-3% (apart the industrial "celtized" districts!) -
I too think to a preceltic but lately celtized population of mesolithic stock - some spots of red hairs in Europe, isolated sometimes:
celtic speaking Brittany (old time!): 3-3,5% - french Flanders-Artois-Picardie: 3-3,5% but France as a whole: 1,4% - Walloon: 3% but Flanders: 1,8% - between Northern Hessen and Sachsen-Anhalt about 3-4%? but Germany as a whole: 1,8-2% - remote districts of Norway: 4% (but Norway as a whole: 1,7%) - some southern districts of Sweden (not the southernmost):4% to 5% (but Sweden as a whole: 3%) - in Switzerland: about 2,8-3% but where? I think better in"germanic" Schwyz...
so a possible red hairs rich enough population or more numerous regional spots , drown after that by eastern Europe or Steppes populations not so rich (but look at the Mordvins???) - it is true that red hairs are seldom among baltic and finnic peoples and true Slavs despite their common enough fair haired people - the same for southern Europe populations so ???
 
do not link to tightly Y-DNA to autosomals even if statistically it could have been a link - on previous not so big populations drift could have done a little "mess" even if not so easily that believe someones -
other peoples said yet that a lot of autsosomals of Baltic People can be inherited from a female population (maybe close enough to a part of Finns mothers) - the 'definition' of these poolings of genes are maybe not precise enough yet and can be improved in the future -even precise it can be "arbitrary" ... - for scottish people do not forget that Scotland people was divided in a first time in very different ethnies - an eastern element in autosomals can be came there with Vikings, not?
I suppose that the "Western" or "North-Western" pool will be separated in more than a cluster, and that a lot of the genes envolved in these choices are of different even if partly akin ancient populations of Paleo- or Mesolithic origin -
ad for the question of Neolithic, Chalcolithic, Bronze Age people movements, I remember that some movements eastwards-westwards seam having taken place in the Early Mésolithic even if there is no typical cultural material attached to them -
 
[--]I think that the explanation is that the "West European" component actually represents mostly the genes of Paleolithic I1 and I2b Northern Europeans, and that they inhabited all northern Europe from Ireland and Britain to Russia and Ukraine before being replaced by R1a and R1b. Studies have confirmed that R1 people have a higher sperm count than I people, and therefore R1 lineages could easily replace I linages by having a slightly higher percentage of boys each generation. That's why autosomal DNA doesn't match haplogroups. We shouldn't be comparing R1b and R1a regions, but look at what haplogroups were there before the R1 lineages eclipsed them.
I 'm sorry for a so late post on this topic I would be glad knowing the exact impact of a more or less sperm count because at first sight I 'm not sure that a bit lower count of spermatozoids could diminish the number of children, males or females, when we known there are millions (until 200 millions sometimes) of spermatozoids in a "male coit package" ("ejaculation"???) - it 's not sure even that the difference of quality if minima could alter too much the performance: the better ones win the race, no?) - the females have a far more important roel in sexual reproduction I think, so? maybe am I a bit naive? read you again
 
R1b is linked with the spread of Christianity not evil super aggresiveness or super sperm. If anything Pagan groups attacked early christian r1b populations. Red Hair is the evolutionary transition to Blonde. Hair does not turn from Black to Blonde overnight. It is gradual.
 
If that's true, then red hair would be more common than blond...not the case at all. The gene for red hair it's pretty específic, we are dealing with another kind of mutation.
 
"I' Haplotypes are related to J haplotypes thru IJ ? why don't J haplotypes have blonde hair?
 
Haplogroups aren't informative concerning light or dark traits at present, it's difficult to know if genuine J's were light or dark haired. If there's little frequence of light hair among populations having the highest percents of J, it's mostly due to autosomal inheritance. We have thousands of ancestors, and Y-DNA does not reflect nothing but one.
 

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