That is in fact very close to what I was thinking. Whether straight up Genocide or not it was due to struggle or warfare and not because one group was more fertile than the other. Plus simply due to human nature I find it almost impossible that such migrations and the overpopulation would've been resolved in any kind of peaceful civilized manner. One population growing too large means they experience some kind of scarcity. This would incentivize attack on neighboring tribes for more land/resources.
Rinse and repeat for 1000s of years and you get the picture. What I'm wondering is if the I or even R dominant tribes had somehow managed to produce more food which would make the whole equation much simpler, hell even cannibals would have a slight advantage over non cannibals. However if G2a had more food but still lost out that would mean something else is at play. Perhaps a heavily decentralized societal structure coming up against more centralized and martial one. or even an advantage in weaponry/tools available.
I agree completely that a "cultural diffusion" model (Gimbutas) is silly and asinine to propose. Neighbors blow each others heads off in modern times with forensic science and life sentences over small things like a disagreement over a fence location. It's very childlike and naive to think that "peaceful cultural diffusion" occurred between two oil and vinegar societes- sedentary farmers and nomadic horse warriors.
Yes, I see the PIE sphere as a sort of Proto-Scythic empire - same language, same religion, same customs, from Ireland to India. Sure there are differences in dialects etc but the fact that we can trace a Proto language back from Gaelic to Sanskrit is quite astounding and a testament to the *possibly underrated* nomadic empire that very likely could have been the PIE's. Again, think "more primitive Scythians" and we're not going into outlandish, imaginary territory here. Finally, remember, we are still speaking these people's languages and just because they turned into the Celts, Romans, Germans, Italics, Greeks, Slavs, Balts, Scythians, Persians, Tocharians, and Indo-Aryans does not mean there is zero cultural continuity and living by many of their ideals: meritocracy, self-determination, hybridization or elimination altogether of theocratic meddling in governance (feel free to take me apart on this last one, I'll defend the PIE "lackluster religious output" to the grave [they were NOT theocratic people in the same way that the sedentary farmer descendants were [[Sumerians, Egyptians, Minoans, Old Europe etc]]). Longest continuous culture? The Chinese? False the PIE. Furthermore, the Chinese got a tremendous amount of "civilization starter packages" from the Tocharians. Just look at their timeline for agriculture, smelting, and horse domestication in the Far East. Neo-Proto-Indo-Europeans have been a civilization since they first charged out of the Pontic Caspian step as the Yamnaya.
This question has been active for a few years. It seems most people are consumed with 2 things:
1)
That Y-Chromosomes aren't important in determining traits - Why would that make sense? Nature doesn't make mistakes nor does it care about your feelings or your modern perceptions of what is or isn't "fair" genetically or in terms of gender issues. Fact of the matter is that the
Y chromosome remains intact and this is not a mistake. It clearly has alternate purpose to just sperm motility. Let's expand out minds. Sperm count alone is a horribly over simplistic explanation for
the only chromosome to remain intact and have 53 million base pairs (even if this is less than most chromosomes, still plenty to exhibit traits). We are more similar to silverback gorillas not bonobos. Once you come to this realization, things like Y chromosome paternity preservation and male-line dominated super tribes descending from a single Proto-Father start to make tremendously more sense. Again ignore the mainstream media which is trying to push false and under-researched concepts about us being orgiastic bonobos... Does that fit with anything you have ever read in history? More sons? Do R1b's/R1a's have more sons or even more kids on average per attempt than G2a's? If not then we need to start to expand our minds past socio-cultural implications of the 21st century and look at the real, naturalistic, biological root cause of Y chromosomes remaining intact from father to son. Evolution didn't leave the Y chromosome intact just so that we can debate population migrations on Eupedia hundreds of thousands of years later.
2) That G2a was wiped out wholesale in Europe - As a G2a person, let me be the first to admit: "Yes, G2a was slaughtered absolutely wholesale in a wanton act of violence (again insert Scythians, Xiongyu, Huns, Mongols, Hungarians or any PIE-descendant or non-genetic-PIE-cultural copies)". With that said, I'm not sure if your response takes into account just how
incredibly populous the Old European cities were. I've seen estimates that put cities in Old Europe as the largest in the world at the time, larger than the Indus Valley cities. I would agree based on genetic replacement in more isolated areas like Ireland being nearly 100% with males that population density decreased Westward. However, there aren't any G2a cultures worth noting west of Halstatt with the exception of whoever built Stonehenge and Skara Brae. Furthermore, there were multiple waves of Proto-Celts and Insular Celts to the British Isles that would have chipped away at any G2a + I1 extant megalith-constructing population there whereas in Old Europe, the destruction was absolute and very fast. In fact, as I type this, I realize it might actually further support my assertion that G-L497 was associated with the first Bronze blacksmithing somewhere in the Carpathian Mountains (
https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threa...een-G-L497-and-metallurgy?p=585003#post585003) as it seems as if the horse was not the deciding factor in PIE success, it was really their Bronze technology. Once they obtained Bronze, even massively well developed cultures like Old Europe were erased in decades.
However G-L30 could represent a Old Europe/LBK/pre-PIE-Halstatt cultural horizon in which mountainous blacksmithing was invented, the dominant artisans amongst them being brought into the PIE nobility early on due to their ability to craft armor and weapons for the nobility hence explaining the prevalence of R1b + G-L497 (originally from Romania) all across the PIE horizon from Ireland to India. While G2a was wiped out wholesale, it was also the only haplogroup to be integrated into the horselord nobility and moved around with R1b. Why?
Addition: I started a thread about this: (https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threa...een-G-L497-and-metallurgy?p=585003#post585003).
