Were the Croatians originally Slavic?

[Garrick]

I know noricum is where the Illyrian started and descent to limits of Greece,
I know Roman Illyricum which was not illyria proprie Dicti
But I do not know Iapyges and othertribes of Illyricum as Illyrians
besides Demetrius unified Illirians with Greeks in his anti-Roman campaign,
but nobody mentions the ALBOCENSE

It can be true.

One my Romanian friend told me that not only in Moldavia and Eastern Romania and Southern Ukraine, even in Western Romania there are Albanian toponyms. But sometimes is hard that someone precise determines if the word is Albanian or Romanian because their languages are quite similar.

For example, Buri (Burs) is considered generally as Dacian tribe. But burrë in Albanian is man, husband, lord. Probably Buri were Dacian tribe but it is possible that among them there were Albanians, Buri were big tribe.

Romanian scientists consider tribes Karpi and Costoboci as possible Albanian, and these tribes were more Eastern in comparing with Buri. Albocese were on the Western side from Buri.

For Carpi tribe their name is attested as Albanian, because karpë in old Albanian is rock, and it is linked with Carpatian mountines. What is interesting and today in Carpatian mountines there are Albanian toponyms.

For Costoboci it is possible to find some links, for example Boci is Albanian surname. There are more Boci surname in Albania than in all countries in the world together. And probably several Boci in Germany, Italy, Greece etc. are Albanian origin.

For Albocense it is interesting Albanians don't like to speak about them. But it is attested as tribe and Albocense and Costoboci can be found in the ninth tabula of Europe of Ptolemy’s Geography.

It is known that what we know as Dacian tribes they were not only ethnic Dacian (Romanian), there were among them Celtic, Germanic, Slavic, Scythian, Albanian, Sarmatian tribes.

 

[Piro Ilir]

Only me? It's easy to find people who have been there and have eyes:

http://s1.zetaboards.com/anthroscape/single/?p=1423164&t=1475690

The Albanian scholars argue that the tosks evolved mostly from the epirot tribes and the gheg evolved from the Hyllirians. Both are the branches of one ethnicity. I don't see any argument for disputes on your post

 

[Piro Ilir]

The centre was not Scudari , it was much further north...........by the time the illyrians entered modern Albania the ancient Macedonians already ruled the area. Please read the history of Alexander the great father Philip and his many wars against the encroaching illyrians from the north.

Illyrian DNA is known, its I2a , R1b , G2a, and others and some 8% of E-v13...............the Illyrians are very mixed, because they are not ONE ethnicity

First time I hear that the Hyllirian DNA in known. As I know we don't have any Hyllirian DNA study. I see you don't have knowledge about Hyllirians. The two important most earlier centers of the Hyllirians were one on modern Bosnia, and one on modern Albania (Mat region) . This is well-known among scholars. These centers represent an earlier settlement which predates the Alexander the great. When the Romans decided to invade the Balkans, there was the kingdom of hylliria with the capital Scutari. There was the last stronghold of the Hyllirians against the Romans. Scutari was the real Hyllirian city that we know. During the bronze age and before, the west Balkan was an area too rare populated . If I remember well the center in Bosnia was in glasinac. Scutari was mentioned during the iron age.

 

[Rethel]

Why are you writing Hylirians?

 

[Piro Ilir]

The DNA of old yugoslavia shows to a high degree what was "Illyrian" DNA. since I2a seems the majority in the area and that recent DNA tests also shows Remedello culture in northern Italy states also I2a,................... one need to concludes, that I2a in northern Italy and northern "old yugoslavia" was proto-illyrian/proto-raetic, especially since the northern adriatic sea was once land and not sea.
G2a is also found there as an ancient marker

You mean north Italy and north Yugoslavia. You mean the ancient Veneti, Etruscans etc. They probably were not Hyllirians. Scholars saying that the earlier Hyllirians archeological settlements were in Bosnia (glasinac) and in Albania (Mat) . Veneti were not Hyllirians. Liburni are very disputed among scholars. Probably they were not. During the Roman time, Hyllirian proper dicty were called (from the Roman writers) the people living on the area around basin of Drin river and further south.

 

[Piro Ilir]

Sile, some Romanian scientists argue that Albanians are Free Dacians who lived in present day Moldavia, eastern part of Romania and southern Ukraine. What is interesting in these areas today there are a lot of Albanian toponyms. If this theory is correct Albanians came to present day Albania between 5-10 century.

No, linguistically it's impossible. Between Vlachs and Albanians was a huge and long coexistence. Romanians settled there after the Slavic migration, migrating there from south. Modern Romanians are Roman colons who mixed with tracians and Hyllirians and few Slavs. The clergy and the church vocabulary of the Albanian language show an earlier linguistic evolution. It is archaic. This show that Albanians became Christians before the tracians and especially from the dacians. Dacians tracians and Hyllirians might be the branches of the same ethnicity. This is a theory among the scholars, but it's not yet accepted.

 

[Piro Ilir]

I don't think we have enough evidence to conclude that there was just one "Illyrian" language. Consider it from the perspective of history. Suppose an archaeologist 2000 years from now tries to piece together European history from the fragments that remain after the Great Crisis of 2355 and is unsure of whether or not Swiss people spoke the same language as Belgians or whether or not there were separate "Swiss" and "Belgian" languages. It might not even occur to him to seriously consider the fact that both Switzerland and Belgium were multilingual countries.

Yes, I agree. We just trying to suppose here. Those ancient tribes were moving all the time. There was not a real border among them. But probably there was an Hyllirian language, but we don't know yet what really was Hyllirian. The Veneti were called as Hyllirians by the ancient Hellenes, but the modern scholars deny this. But the ancient hellenes writers said that when they visited the Hyllirian coasts, their core was somewhere on Montenegro or scodra lake. Also the Romans called as Hyllirian proper dicty, the people living around Drin basin river. The river start on ohrid lake and finish on scodra lake

 

[Piro Ilir]

It can be true.

One my Romanian friend told me that not only in Moldavia and Eastern Romania and Southern Ukraine, even in Western Romania there are Albanian toponyms. But sometimes is hard that someone precise determines if the word is Albanian or Romanian because their languages are quite similar.

For example, Buri (Burs) is considered generally as Dacian tribe. But burrë in Albanian is man, husband, lord. Probably Buri were Dacian tribe but it is possible that among them there were Albanians, Buri were big tribe.

Romanian scientists consider tribes Karpi and Costoboci as possible Albanian, and these tribes were more Eastern in comparing with Buri. Albocese were on the Western side from Buri.

For Carpi tribe their name is attested as Albanian, because karpë in old Albanian is rock, and it is linked with Carpatian mountines. What is interesting and today in Carpatian mountines there are Albanian toponyms.

For Costoboci it is possible to find some links, for example Boci is Albanian surname. There are more Boci surname in Albania than in all countries in the world together. And probably several Boci in Germany, Italy, Greece etc. are Albanian origin.

For Albocense it is interesting Albanians don't like to speak about them. But it is attested as tribe and Albocense and Costoboci can be found in the ninth tabula of Europe of Ptolemy’s Geography.

It is known that what we know as Dacian tribes they were not only ethnic Dacian (Romanian), there were among them Celtic, Germanic, Slavic, Scythian, Albanian, Sarmatian tribes.

Alba is an Latin word. So enough with this. Has nothing to do with the origin of the Albanians. It is found on Caucasus and in Scotland. Albanian were called a Hyllirian tribe which inhabited a region in Albania. Has nothing to do with all this dispute. First mention was at 150 ad.

 

[Garrick]

Why are you writing Hylirians?

Good question, fair, and reputation.

He writes: Hylliran; y is sound between u and i, and ll is l; in Albanian l is ly, because Albanians much more use ly.

Why does he write it? Because Hyllirian "seems more Albanian". He tries to put all us to think Albanians are descendants of Illyrians, even in this unfair way.

In archaic Albanian hyll is star.
...

Albanians are from Moldavia, Eastern Romania and South Ukraine, they were Free Dacian tribes, probably Carpi and Costoboci, maybe more.

In these areas were very crowded when tribes from Asia entered.

Probably Huns forced Albanians to leave these areas, first they settled in Panonian plain, but and there were dangerous, and they came to today's Albania.

Balkans was depopulated and they came to areas where lived Armanji and Greeks.

Albanians nothing to do with Illirians and Pelasgians.

Ancient origin of Albanians is probably Eastern Anatolia and Caucasus (before Moldavia, Eastern Romania).

 

[gyms]

Good question, fair, and reputation.

He writes: Hylliran; y is sound between u and i, and ll is l; in Albanian l is ly, because Albanians much more use ly.

Why does he write it? Because Hyllirian "seems more Albanian". He tries to put all us to think Albanians are descendants of Illyrians, even in this unfair way.

In archaic Albanian hyll is star.
...

Albanians are from Moldavia, Eastern Romania and South Ukraine, they were Free Dacian tribes, probably Carpi and Costoboci, maybe more.

In these areas were very crowded when tribes from Asia entered.

Probably Huns forced Albanians to leave these areas, first they settled in Panonian plain, but and there were dangerous, and they came to today's Albania.

Balkans was depopulated and they came to areas where lived Armanji and Greeks.

Albanians nothing to do with Illirians and Pelasgians.

Ancient origin of Albanians is probably Eastern Anatolia and Caucasus (before Moldavia, Eastern Romania).

You are a genius!

 

[Yetos]

Alba

[/URL] is an Latin word. So enough with this. Has nothing to do with the origin of the Albanians. It is found on Caucasus and in Scotland. Albanian were called a Hyllirian tribe which inhabited a region in Albania. Has nothing to do with all this dispute. First mention was at 150 ad.

Oh really?

why you do not search how many Albas exist or existed in Bulgaria, Romania, Serbia?
like Alba Iullia
is it true Belingrad older name was also Alba?

come on?
Anju/Huniades were Kumans and Romanians from Romanian Alba,
why you hide your shelf the truth?


Alba Alps Alpen etc has same meaning, with Greek Aλφειος/πελεκος/Λευκος Slavic Bjialo Germanic weis white, Latin Blanco, which in Albanian is bardhe
come on,

 

[Sile]

You mean north Italy and north Yugoslavia. You mean the ancient Veneti, Etruscans etc. They probably were not Hyllirians. Scholars saying that the earlier Hyllirians archeological settlements were in Bosnia (glasinac) and in Albania (Mat) . Veneti were not Hyllirians. Liburni are very disputed among scholars. Probably they were not. During the Roman time, Hyllirian proper dicty were called (from the Roman writers) the people living on the area around basin of Drin river and further south.

Herodotus is the historian that stated the veneti where Illyrians, but he was wrong because in 2011 DNA states the Veneti where from northern Anatolia.
Roman historian Strabo states Illyrians are from the north, modern eastern-austria, croatia, bosnia
Roman historian Livy states Illyrians are from the north as per strabo and Veneti are from northern Antolia.

Herodotus was also wrong about the etruscans .......he states they are from lydia in anatolia ........how was their no association between lydians fighting against Phygians in central anatolia circa 500BC and not not being associated with etruscans in italy if etrucans came from lydians? .........surely historians would have stated they where the same people if the story of etruscans by herodorus was correct.

I have yet to see a Roman historian mentioning any albanians even though the major road running in the middle of Albania was built by Romans. I see no Roman surveyor mentioning any Albanians after the romans travelled all around albania looking for metals.

 

[Trojet]

I have yet to see a Roman historian mentioning any albanians even though the major road running in the middle of Albania was built by Romans. I see no Roman surveyor mentioning any Albanians after the romans travelled all around albania looking for metals.

So Albanians were brought by aliens after the Romans left present day Albania? I'm waiting for Sile aka the Slavic puppet, or one of these Slavic speakers suggest this hypothesis.

 

[Piro Ilir]

Good question, fair, and reputation.

He writes: Hylliran; y is sound between u and i, and ll is l; in Albanian l is ly, because Albanians much more use ly.

Why does he write it? Because Hyllirian "seems more Albanian". He tries to put all us to think Albanians are descendants of Illyrians, even in this unfair way.

In archaic Albanian hyll is star.
...

Albanians are from Moldavia, Eastern Romania and South Ukraine, they were Free Dacian tribes, probably Carpi and Costoboci, maybe more.

In these areas were very crowded when tribes from Asia entered.

Probably Huns forced Albanians to leave these areas, first they settled in Panonian plain, but and there were dangerous, and they came to today's Albania.

Balkans was depopulated and they came to areas where lived Armanji and Greeks.

Albanians nothing to do with Illirians and Pelasgians.

Ancient origin of Albanians is probably Eastern Anatolia and Caucasus (before Moldavia, Eastern Romania).

You again are wrong. This is coming to be an attitude for you. I use some times Hyllirian- Ilirian- Hillirian- Illyrian and in other forms just because there was not only one way when we read in different sources for them. It has nothing to do with the Albanian language. In whatever form you write it, it has a meaning on the Albanian language. Anyway, what is the meaning on the Serb language? A huge part of words from the hillirian origin, have an Albanian meaning . Likewise as the goodness Aphrodite.

 

[Piro Ilir]

Why are you writing Hylirians?

I read it in different sources in different forms. Hyllirian, Illyrian, Ilirian, Hillyrian, etc . We don't know what was the exact from

 

[Piro Ilir]

Oh really?

why you do not search how many Albas exist or existed in Bulgaria, Romania, Serbia?
like Alba Iullia
is it true Belingrad older name was also Alba?

come on?
Anju/Huniades were Kumans and Romanians from Romanian Alba,
why you hide your shelf the truth?


Alba Alps Alpen etc has same meaning, with Greek Aλφειος/πελεκος/Λευκος Slavic Bjialo Germanic weis white, Latin Blanco, which in Albanian is bardhe
come on,

I don't see your point here. Alba probably is not connected with the yllirians. It is a word by Latin origin. Maybe connected with the word alps . It was mentioned in Albania during a time when probably the yllirians were living mostly on mountains. The mountains of Albania are too high and too steepest. That is why they called them Albanians. People living on mountains. The plains and the cities and the coasts were almost latinized.

 

[Ike]

Why are you writing Hylirians?

Probably because of #219. In their nationalistic obsession, Albanians sometimes forget it was an exonym :grin:

So Albanians were brought by aliens after the Romans left present day Albania? I'm waiting for Sile aka the Slavic puppet, or one of these Slavic speakers suggest this hypothesis.

No, they were always there. There is abundant list of evidence of books, tablet and inscriptions, dated from 0-800 AD, left by Roman (Byzantine) emperors born in the places where Albanians have lived, where they cherish their non Greek ancestry in Proto Albanian language.

 

[Piro Ilir]

Herodotus is the historian that stated the veneti where Illyrians, but he was wrong because in 2011 DNA states the Veneti where from northern Anatolia.
Roman historian Strabo states Illyrians are from the north, modern eastern-austria, croatia, bosnia
Roman historian Livy states Illyrians are from the north as per strabo and Veneti are from northern Antolia.

Herodotus was also wrong about the etruscans .......he states they are from lydia in anatolia ........how was their no association between lydians fighting against Phygians in central anatolia circa 500BC and not not being associated with etruscans in italy if etrucans came from lydians? .........surely historians would have stated they where the same people if the story of etruscans by herodorus was correct.

I have yet to see a Roman historian mentioning any albanians even though the major road running in the middle of Albania was built by Romans. I see no Roman surveyor mentioning any Albanians after the romans travelled all around albania looking for metals.

As far as I know, the scholars agree about Veneti. They think they were not illyrians. About the tribe Liburni, there is still a dispute among them. They still don't agree about the Liburni. About Dalmatians the majority of them agree. Dalmatian was an illyrian tribe. Interesting is the position of the mesapians on modern south east Italy. They are very important for the Hyllirian- Albanian continuity. If the mesapi were illyrians ,there is a strong possibility that Albanians probably evolved from the tracians. But it looks that mesapians were not illyrians. The Albanian theory of some nationalist Slavs is really ridiculous for the people who have some knowledge on the issue. It is an insult for our intelligence

 

[Piro Ilir]

So Albanians were brought by aliens after the Romans left present day Albania? I'm waiting for Sile aka the Slavic puppet, or one of these Slavic speakers suggest this hypothesis.

Albanian tribe of the Hyllirians, is well documented by the ancient sources. (Ptolemy and others) 150 ad on the region around modern Kruja- Mat . Albanopolis was the center. Located on the area near Kruja, if I remember well, modern Zgerdhesh,but I might be wrong.

 

[Trojet]

Albanian tribe of the Hyllirians, is well documented by the ancient sources. (Ptolemy and others) 150 ad on the region around modern Kruja- Mat . Albanopolis was the center. Located on the area near Kruja, if I remember well, modern Zgerdhesh,but I might be wrong.

Yep, that would be correct! I was just making fun at their ridiculous hypothesis thus far.