Were the Croatians originally Slavic?

[Trojet]

Double post.

 

[Trojet]

Why don't we discuss some hypothesis about Serb origins. This one states that Serbs were originally an Iranian/ Sarmatian tribe originating somewhere in the Caucausus and then migrated to present day Poland area. After mixing with Slavs in Poland area where they founded White Serbia, supposedly they became Slavicized, and then obviously migrated to the Balkans sometime after the 6th century AD:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_hypotheses_of_the_Serbs#Iranian_theory

 

[Милан М.]

Albanian tribe of the Hyllirians, is well documented by the ancient sources. (Ptolemy and others) 150 ad on the region around modern Kruja- Mat . Albanopolis was the center. Located on the area near Kruja, if I remember well, modern Zgerdhesh,but I might be wrong.

Why do you call yourself Sqiptar instead of Albanian? in our sources Albanians are Arbanas,but you find it derogatory even the name that you use for yourself Sqiptar,why is that?

 

[Милан М.]

Why don't we discuss some hypothesis about Serb origins. This one states that Serbs were originally an Iranian/ Sarmatian tribe originating somewhere in the Caucausus and then migrated to present day Poland area. After mixing with Slavs in Poland area where they founded White Serbia, supposedly they became Slavicized, and then obviously migrated to the Balkans sometime after the 6th century AD:

The name Serb is old name and found from Germany to India,Caucasus,Afghanistan,Balkans,it's connected with IE people.

 

[Yetos]

I read it in different sources in different forms. Hyllirian, Illyrian, Ilirian, Hillyrian, etc . We don't know what was the exact from

COME ON MAN,

FACE THE TRUTH ONCE IN YOUR LIFE

TERMINATION ILLYRIAN IS A GREEK EXONYM,
THE GREEK NAME THEM ILLYRIANS,
LIKE THE ROMAN CREATED THE TEMINATION GERMANS,
Germans never name their name as Germans,
Romans name them so
so Illyrians never name their nation as Illyrians,
Greeks name them so,


SO ANY EFFORT TO COMPINE IT WITH HYLL HAS NO MEANING

AN EXONYM IS AN EXONYM,

HE WHO TURNS THE EXONYM INTO AN INNERNAME (endonym esonym) AND TRIES TO GIVE MEANING IS JUST .... NOT SERIOUS

now back to your school to learn your propaganda poem correct

 

[Yetos]

Yep, that would be correct! I was just making fun at their ridiculous hypothesis thus far.

are you kidding us?

even today Albanian Archaiologists dig and dig and dig and still say we will found Albanopolis,
but they never did,
they found all ancient Greek and Roman and what ever cities,
EVEN COLHIAN COLONY ULCINE
but not Albanopolis, why?

 

[Yetos]

Albanian tribe of the Hyllirians, is well documented by the ancient sources. (Ptolemy and others) 150 ad on the region around modern Kruja- Mat . Albanopolis was the center. Located on the area near Kruja, if I remember well, modern Zgerdhesh,but I might be wrong.

AND YOU STIIL FABRICATE HISTORY,
NOW YOU TELL US AGAIN THAT HYLLIRIANS WAS AN INNER NAME, AND NOT AN EXONYM GIVEN BY GREEKS,
EVEN THE SMALLEST SCIENTISTS UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE AMONG ENDONYM AND EXONYM,
BUT IN ALBANIA SEEMS YOU DON"T, CAUSE YOUR PROPAGANDA DOES NOT ALLOW YOU TO,

Anyway can you give tell us the others?
you said Ptolemy and Others,
WHICH OTHER?
CAUSE I KNOW NO ONE ELSE SAY ALBANOI IN ILLYRIA EXCEPT PTOLEMY,
NEITHER STRABO NEITHER ELSE,
there is also another one who say about Albanoi at Caucasus,

 

[Sile]

As far as I know, the scholars agree about Veneti. They think they were not illyrians. About the tribe Liburni, there is still a dispute among them. They still don't agree about the Liburni. About Dalmatians the majority of them agree. Dalmatian was an illyrian tribe. Interesting is the position of the mesapians on modern south east Italy. They are very important for the Hyllirian- Albanian continuity. If the mesapi were illyrians ,there is a strong possibility that Albanians probably evolved from the tracians. But it looks that mesapians were not illyrians. The Albanian theory of some nationalist Slavs is really ridiculous for the people who have some knowledge on the issue. It is an insult for our intelligence

The veneti where invaders into italy ~1200BC, the original people where the Euganei .........Friul ( eastern area of Euganei ) where Illyrians which is why the towns of Oderzo and Trieste have illyrian names.

The Liburni have been around since 900BC , they where seafarers, raiders and transporters of people, they lived next to the veneti. they spoke Venetic but where referred sometimes as illyrians

The liburni took the Iapyges to south italy to become the messapic people..........the language of the Iapyges and messapics are the same.
Eventually the messapics gained a lot of epirote migratnts and mixed with these .............later phyrrhus the epirote king invaded Rome via his association with these messapics
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iapyges
The Iapyges are from modern Zagreb area( croatia )...they had no access to the coast of the adriatic sea.

Another tribe the Liburni took to Italy was the Picene...........north Picene retained their illyrian language and southern Picene took on the italic-Umbro language...eventually north picene and south picene had completly different language.

 

[Sile]

Why don't we discuss some hypothesis about Serb origins. This one states that Serbs were originally an Iranian/ Sarmatian tribe originating somewhere in the Caucausus and then migrated to present day Poland area. After mixing with Slavs in Poland area where they founded White Serbia, supposedly they became Slavicized, and then obviously migrated to the Balkans sometime after the 6th century AD:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_hypotheses_of_the_Serbs#Iranian_theory

your mixing croatian and serbian history
The serbs in majority of ethnicity are thracians from the Triballi tribe ( one of the 4 major thracian tribes ), which is why still to today their coat of arms bears the boar symbol of the triballi............there was slavic elements into serbia to convert these triballi linguistically into slavs.

The Croatians is a different matter......they have also been associated with Alans and Avars

 

[Trojet]

your mixing croatian and serbian history
The serbs in majority of ethnicity are thracians from the Triballi tribe ( one of the 4 major thracian tribes ), which is why still to today their coat of arms bears the boar symbol of the triballi............there was slavic elements into serbia to convert these triballi linguistically into slavs.

The Croatians is a different matter......they have also been associated with Alans and Avars

First of all, I'm not mixing anything. If you click the link and actually spend some time reading that theory, you will find out that it is about the Serbs, and not the Croatians.

Secondly, it is true that Serbs have absorbed some Paleo Balkan people into their ethnogenesis. But here we are talking about the original Serbs:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_hypotheses_of_the_Serbs#Iranian_theory

Theory about Iranian origin of the Serb ethnonym assumes that ancient Serbi / Serboi from north Caucasus (Asiatic Sarmatia) were an Sarmatian (Alanian) tribe.[21] The theory subsequently assumes that Alanian Serbi were subdued by the Huns in the 4th century and that they, as part of the Hunnic army, migrated to the western edge of the Hunnic Empire (in the area of Central Europe near the river Elbe, later designated as White Serbia in what is now Saxony (eastern Germany) and western Poland). After Hunnic leader Attila died (in 453), Alanian Serbi presumably became independent and ruled in the east of the river Saale (in modern day Germany) over local Slavic population.[21][22] Over time, they, it is argued, intermarried with the local Slavic population of the region,[21][22] adopted Slavic language, and transferred their name to the Slavs.[23] According to Tadeuš Sulimirski, similar event could occur in the Balkans or Serbs who settled in the Balkans were Slavs who came from the north and who were ruled by already slavicized Alans

 

[Ike]

If you click the link and actually spend some time reading that theory, you will find out that it is about the Serbs, and not the Croatians.

If you had actually looked at the title of the thread ....

 

[Piro Ilir]

Why do you call yourself Sqiptar instead of Albanian? in our sources Albanians are Arbanas,but you find it derogatory even the name that you use for yourself Sqiptar,why is that?

Today Albanians are not the descendents of the only one Ilirian tribe (albanoi) . They descend by many of them. Probably by not of all ylirian tribes. Some of them disappeared. Some of the Ilyrian tribes evolved into the modern Albanians or shqiptars, and the the ancient tribe albanoi was among these tribes. We don't know exactly when the word shqiptar started to be used. Albanian is a word used by the foreigners . It was not used by the Albanians even during medieval. I think shqiptar is too old. Probably connected indeed with the Roman or Byzantine period. It was only used among the Albanians.

 

[Piro Ilir]

COME ON MAN,

FACE THE TRUTH ONCE IN YOUR LIFE

TERMINATION ILLYRIAN IS A GREEK EXONYM,
THE GREEK NAME THEM ILLYRIANS,
LIKE THE ROMAN CREATED THE TEMINATION GERMANS,
Germans never name their name as Germans,
Romans name them so
so Illyrians never name their nation as Illyrians,
Greeks name them so,


SO ANY EFFORT TO COMPINE IT WITH HYLL HAS NO MEANING

AN EXONYM IS AN EXONYM,

HE WHO TURNS THE EXONYM INTO AN INNERNAME (endonym esonym) AND TRIES TO GIVE MEANING IS JUST .... NOT SERIOUS

now back to your school to learn your propaganda poem correct

The word for them I had read from the foreigner sources, not from Albanian sources. Hyllirian was a word probably used by the hellenes for them. Hyllirian was the name of one hyllirian tribe around lake of scodra. From this tribe the hellenes started to call all the tribes akin to them as illyrians. I don't see anything for a dispute here. The Greeks were called thus, by the Romans. Hyllirians probably were called thus, by the hellenes.

 

[Piro Ilir]

are you kidding us?

even today Albanian Archaiologists dig and dig and dig and still say we will found Albanopolis,
but they never did,
they found all ancient Greek and Roman and what ever cities,
EVEN COLHIAN COLONY ULCINE
but not Albanopolis, why?

No you are completely wrong. It was found near modern Kruja. But it was not akin to mykene, Athens, or Argos. [emoji23] . It was a huge village rather than a Hellenic polis. You need more knowledge about yllirians and shqiptars.

 

[Piro Ilir]

AND YOU STIIL FABRICATE HISTORY,
NOW YOU TELL US AGAIN THAT HYLLIRIANS WAS AN INNER NAME, AND NOT AN EXONYM GIVEN BY GREEKS,
EVEN THE SMALLEST SCIENTISTS UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE AMONG ENDONYM AND EXONYM,
BUT IN ALBANIA SEEMS YOU DON"T, CAUSE YOUR PROPAGANDA DOES NOT ALLOW YOU TO,

Anyway can you give tell us the others?
you said Ptolemy and Others,
WHICH OTHER?
CAUSE I KNOW NO ONE ELSE SAY ALBANOI IN ILLYRIA EXCEPT PTOLEMY,
NEITHER STRABO NEITHER ELSE,
there is also another one who say about Albanoi at Caucasus,

So you believe that ignorant theory of Caucasus. I thought that only some Serb nationalis believe on that. That is not a theory for the smart Greeks. Come on

 

[Piro Ilir]

The veneti where invaders into italy ~1200BC, the original people where the Euganei .........Friul ( eastern area of Euganei ) where Illyrians which is why the towns of Oderzo and Trieste have illyrian names.

The Liburni have been around since 900BC , they where seafarers, raiders and transporters of people, they lived next to the veneti. they spoke Venetic but where referred sometimes as illyrians

The liburni took the Iapyges to south italy to become the messapic people..........the language of the Iapyges and messapics are the same.
Eventually the messapics gained a lot of epirote migratnts and mixed with these .............later phyrrhus the epirote king invaded Rome via his association with these messapics
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iapyges
The Iapyges are from modern Zagreb area( croatia )...they had no access to the coast of the adriatic sea.

Another tribe the Liburni took to Italy was the Picene...........north Picene retained their illyrian language and southern Picene took on the italic-Umbro language...eventually north picene and south picene had completly different language.

Yes. Thank you for the info about Veneti. When Veneti settled there? Do you know? What is your view about the messapi. What were them? You think that Liburni and Veneti were akin?

 

[Garrick]

No you are completely wrong. It was found near modern Kruja. But it was not akin to mykene, Athens, or Argos. [emoji23] . It was a huge village rather than a Hellenic polis. You need more knowledge about yllirians and shqiptars.

No. If you really want to research, it is the best to go in Moldavia. Have you wondered yourself why Moldavia is full Albanian toponyms.

 

[Sile]

Yes. Thank you for the info about Veneti. When Veneti settled there? Do you know? What is your view about the messapi. What were them? You think that Liburni and Veneti were akin?

The oldest archaeology finds found which are Veneti in north-Italy is dated 1160BC ( late bronze-age)

I already showed you messapii came from
Iapyges spoke the Messapian language since the Messapians themselves were the southernmost tribe of the Iapyges.
The Iapyges cam from modern inland croatia.

Liburnians came to the adriatic from Pannonian lands which was illyrian in the 11th and 10th centuries BC.
Liburni seemed to control the northern adriatic lands, they did invade south and took corfu , but lost it in 700BC to the corintihians
The Liburnian in the Iron Age, marked by their expansion and colonization of Picenum, which is in modern italy in the regions of Romagna and Marche
I think they knew and spoke in the Venetic language but less so than their northern neighbours the Histri ( istria )

 

[Yetos]

so you believe that ignorant theory of caucasus. I thought that only some serb nationalis believe on that. That is not a theory for the smart greeks. Come on

what i believe is my own business, and certified,
what you believe is just a mention,

ok lets see,
from tenths of ancient writer only 2 mention word Albania

1 is saying about Albania Caucasus
2 second is saying about Albanopolis in upper Makedonia,

lets see,
from tenths/ hundrends of ancient writers, only Ptolemy at 150 BC mentions Albanoi, and the next is almost a millenium after. is it to betrusted?
Second you place Albanopolis in kruja, but ptolemy if remember correct place it in Upper Makedonia, later Epirus Nova
IS KRUJA AT EPIRUS NOVA? WAS IT UNDER MAKEDONIAN CONTROL EVER????
a question you must answer your shelf
this Albanopolis of Kruja can be the Arbanon of Αννα Κομνηνη?
by time estimation of walking to battle NO.

this Albanopolis is mentioned at 150AD,
Roman already existed 300 years in area,
what makes you think was ancient illryrian city, and not a Roman city?

No you are completely wrong. It was found near modern Kruja. But it was not akin to mykene, Athens, or Argos. [emoji23] . It was a huge village rather than a Hellenic polis. You need more knowledge about yllirians and shqiptars.

Ptolemy say it was a Polis Albanopolis,
not a village, a polis, a fortified indepented head city, not an emporium, neither a village,
the only polis that fits is Germidava or Thermidava, but it was a Dacian colony,
I wonder why Albanians myzene the horsemans? since it is a Thracian/Getan word?
the Illyrian would probably be Hepfew Ippos or simmilar

you need to read History better, rather than books of propaganda,

 

[Piro Ilir]

your mixing croatian and serbian history
The serbs in majority of ethnicity are thracians from the Triballi tribe ( one of the 4 major thracian tribes ), which is why still to today their coat of arms bears the boar symbol of the triballi............there was slavic elements into serbia to convert these triballi linguistically into slavs.

The Croatians is a different matter......they have also been associated with Alans and Avars

You mean Serbs are evolved by the tracians? First time I'm hearing this. Do they have any tracian substrate? I really doubt