What is your beauty ideal?

[markod]

CHG actress Lika Kavzharadze had a very good face in my opinion. Heavier and more pronounced bones than most Western women (or even men for that matter). I'm partial to less refined features in both sexes.

 

[Angela]

Another gracile Mediterranean face: Lina Cavalleri, the opera singer.

 

[ToBeOrNotToBe]

CHG actress Lika Kavzharadze had a very good face in my opinion. Heavier and more pronounced bones than most Western women (or even men for that matter). I'm partial to less refined features in both sexes.

Actually appears to reflect the ANE contribution to the Caucasus more than anything.

 

[Archetype0ne]

Classify this:

The more women use their reproductive assets to market themselves nowadays, highlighting them as strength, the more I understand how embedded beauty is in proportions.

 

[Angela]

Classify this:

The more women use their reproductive assets to market themselves nowadays, highlighting them as strength, the more I understand how embedded beauty is in proportions.

Both stunning in slightly different ways. First one Gracile Med, yes? Perhaps a Venus or a Flora. Second one is the Italian actress Lyda Borelli from Genova (Liguria). She's slightly different: stronger jaw, fairer, slightly different nose. Still very harmonious, though.

I used her as a guess the ethnicity person once. If I remember correctly people didn't get that she was Italian.

Looking at the below picture, especially, I think she looks completely Italian.

She was stunning indeed. Love her neck...she was like a graceful swan transformed into a woman.

 

[Salento]

Nefertiti ƪ(‾.‾“)┐

Even if she was half as beautiful as she is shown in the bust, she would have still been a very beautiful woman.

 

[LABERIA]

• 

Dea of Butrint, Albania.

It was discovered in Butrint, Albania by an Italian archaeological expedition led by Luigi Maria Ugolini.
When the workers found it, they immediately showed to Ugolini. He took the sculpture in his hand, speechless, amazed by the beauty of this head inspecting for long minutes. Then he finally said one word, Dea in english Goddess.It is supposed to be the head of the Apollo with female features.

BTW, classify?

 

[ToBeOrNotToBe]

Classify this:

The more women use their reproductive assets to market themselves nowadays, highlighting them as strength, the more I understand how embedded beauty is in proportions.

First one is a slightly neotenised (child-like) Gracile Mediterranid (you could interpret that as minor Alpinid admixture, but there's no need), and the second one approaches closer to the Eurafricanid (Atlanto-Mediterranid) form and is much more progressive and mature. The second one could also be a Hallstatt Nordid - the Hallstatt Nordid type metrically approaches the Atlanto-Mediterranid extremely closely (they are virtually indistinguishable).

Btw, I really don't like the term Hallstatt Nordid - that was just Coon's idea as he saw the type in Sweden/Eastern Norway as having origins in the Hallstatt culture, which is almost certainly incorrect (though he may have been right about a Central European origin - we'll have to wait for more Y DNA I1 to turn up in aDNA). A better term would be Skando Nordid or Göta Nordid, but they tend to be used more loosely than Hallstatt Nordid (which is why I used the term Hallstatt Nordid). It would all have made so much sense if Globular Amphora was I1, but unfortunately they're I2... Still, we only have a few samples, and we already know of I1 in the Central European Neolithic.

 

[ToBeOrNotToBe]

• 

Dea of Butrint, Albania.

It was discovered in Butrint, Albania by an Italian archaeological expedition led by Luigi Maria Ugolini.
When the workers found it, they immediately showed to Ugolini. He took the sculpture in his hand, speechless, amazed by the beauty of this head inspecting for long minutes. Then he finally said one word, Dea in english Goddess.It is supposed to be the head of the Apollo with female features.

BTW, classify?

That type doesn't exist in real life (nobody has a nose that runs so straight and smoothly into the forehead), so I can't be more precise than just saying a mature Mediterranid with broadening and shortening of the vault through Alpinid admixture. That particular form of the nose in art is East Mediterranean in origin, and has its tradition in the Greeks and even earlier with the Minoans. The closest form to that that you could probably get is amongst Georgians without pronounced nasal convexity.

If I wanted to go out on a limb and be extra precise, I'd say this is a Mtebid-Eurafricanid hybrid form. You can see examples amongst e.g. Georgian models, and the Circassians were famed for their beauty in this type. From Wikipedia:

American travel author and diplomat Bayard Taylor in 1862 claimed that, "So far as female beauty is concerned, the Circassian women have no superiors. They have preserved in their mountain home the purity of the Grecian models, and still display the perfect physical loveliness, whose type has descended to us in the Venus de' Medici."^[7]

Below, a Circassian woman:

People from the Balkans and Italy may also approach this type, but nowhere near as closely.

 

[Archetype0ne]

Thanks for taking the time to share your opinion ToBe.

 

[ToBeOrNotToBe]

For me, it would be East/Hallstatt Nordid for a woman and Norid-Faelid for a man.

Example for a woman (perfection and basically Hitler's wet dream despite being non-Germanic):

Example for a man:

(If I find a perfect example I'll post it here - I have a basically perfect example but it's a Nazi from a computer game that basically epitomises strength and masculinity, see various angles below)

And see here for animation (time-stamped): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRdilZAN0Vs&t=154

They really nailed his phenotype in this campaign, he looks exactly as you'd expect from an elite warrior. Kind of terrifying in its own way, silly again but I could imagine him having an insanely high kill count in WW2. Nobody can be more masculine than that look imo.

In terms of ideal phenotypes including things like intelligence, willpower etcetera, it would for me be more Dinarid than anything else. Like Schrodinger, who looks Northern Adriatic (including Northern Italy and Austria as well as the typical Dinaric countries) broadly:

You can tell a lot by physical appearance, and to me this image screams intelligence. In this particular photo (but not others), he could even be Jewish/Israeli. In fact, if you look at great Europeans throughout history they are highly Dinarid as opposed to Nordid or any other phenotype. I can't think of a single truly great and significant non-Dinaricised Nordid in all of modern European history, seriously.

 

[markod]

For me, it would be East/Hallstatt Nordid for a woman and Norid-Faelid for a man.
Example for a woman (perfection and basically Hitler's wet dream despite being non-Germanic):

Example for a man:
(If I find a perfect example I'll post it here - I have a basically perfect example but it's a Nazi from a computer game that basically epitomises strength and masculinity, see various angles below)

And see here for animation (time-stamped): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRdilZAN0Vs&t=154
They really nailed his phenotype in this campaign, he looks exactly as you'd expect from an elite warrior. Kind of terrifying in its own way, silly again but I could imagine him having an insanely high kill count in WW2. Nobody can be more masculine than that look imo.
In terms of ideal phenotypes outside of beauty, it would be something more Dinarid like in NE Italy, Austria etc.

Are you really Jewish :grin:

 

[ToBeOrNotToBe]

Are you really Jewish :grin:

Haha I knew that reaction would happen, but yeah I am. And despite having my beauty ideal being such, I am not a Nordicist either, I think Nordids lack willpower and mental independence due to femininity. I've said a few times on here that I like Dinarids (and Norids are similar just more aesthetically pleasing). There's a reason besides economy that Sweden and Italy have reacted so differently to the migrant crisis.

You wouldn't call Arthur Miller a Nordicist because he's one of many Jews who are into blondes (well, at least with Marilyn Monroe, but it's a known tendency: https://forward.com/news/192698/jewish-woman-is-new-face-of-intermarriage-pew-stud/).

 

[ToBeOrNotToBe]

Are you really Jewish :grin:

And I think my choices, pigmentation aside, are borderline objectively correct lol. You could go for a darker, more Mediterranid type for both my ideals for males and females (Angela certainly does), but in terms of facial structure one represents a highly progressive femininity and the other a highly progressive masculinity. You could prefer less elegant and more masculine women or less masculine men/masculine yet inelegant men, but you'd be wrong :grin:

 

[markod]

And I think my choices, pigmentation aside, are borderline objectively correct lol. You could go for a darker, more Mediterranid type for both my ideals for males and females (Angela certainly does), but in terms of facial structure one represents a highly progressive femininity and the other a highly progressive masculinity. You could prefer less elegant and more masculine women or less masculine men/masculine yet inelegant men, but you'd be wrong :grin:

It might be subjective. I live in Westphalia and I don't think those types are considered to be particular desirable here. The women perhaps.

 

[ToBeOrNotToBe]

Seriously, I challenge someone to find any clearly different phenotype (pigmentation aside) for each case I presented that is more elegant in femininity/masculinity respectively. I could replace my two examples with, say, young Monica Bellucci and David Gandy, but they still represent the same form facially.

 

[ToBeOrNotToBe]

Youtube chef Laura Vitale (from Napoli) has a bit of that look, I think, although much softer, and I think she's quite pretty.

Now if this isn't Italian, I don't know what is....

She passes exceedingly easily as Jewish (and even more so as from a rich Jewish family) - and Jews, like Italians, tend to be pretty buxom, which reminds me of those Minoan depictions of women with massive breasts. This woman actually looks a lot like the famous Minoan women:

 

[Archetype0ne]

Seriously, I challenge someone to find any clearly different phenotype (pigmentation aside) for each case I presented that is more elegant in femininity/masculinity respectively. I could replace my two examples with, say, young Monica Bellucci and David Gandy, but they still represent the same form facially.

Beauty in the eye of the beholder.

With your avatar, you should get it.

 

[ToBeOrNotToBe]

It might be subjective. I live in Westphalia and I don't think those types are considered to be particular desirable here. The women perhaps.

What's more beautiful than the woman I posted then, in your opinion? She literally looks like a typical angel in all the Renaissance paintings.

 

[ToBeOrNotToBe]

Beauty in the eye of the beholder.

With your avatar, you should get it.

Not true though really is it, why are pretty people considered pretty if there isn't some element to their facial structure that is seen as such? Here are some extreme examples which look out of Lord of the Rings:

That isn't in the eye of the beholder, come on.