What would you do if you were drafted?

[Maciamo]

I appreciate that some countries (UK, Belgium...) do not have conscription ("draft" for Americans, although it sounds like beer ).

In the events of a war, I would rather leave my country (anyway, I already don't live there anymore ), as 1) I feel little attachment to it, and 2) why should I die for "my country", because some politicians decided it, when I could make the decisions instead of them. I'd rather fight politicians deciding to go to war than the so-called enemy. If "my country" (the EU ?) were attacked, then I would try to find a solution to end the war quickly and with few casualities. But that really depends on how desperate the situation is, I guess.

 

[Satori]

I appreciate that some countries (UK, Belgium...) do not have conscription ("draft" for Americans, although it sounds like beer ).

In the events of a war, I would rather leave my country (anyway, I already don't live there anymore ), as 1) I feel little attachment to it, and 2) why should I die for "my country", because some politicians decided it, when I could make the decisions instead of them. I'd rather fight politicians deciding to go to war than the so-called enemy. If "my country" (the EU ?) were attacked, then I would try to find a solution to end the war quickly and with few casualities. But that really depends on how desperate the situation is, I guess.

I definitely agree with that. Actually, I think the leaders who want to go to war should fight it out!

And I especially loved your reference to beer. If only it were about beer!!

 

[Brooker]

Someone (not me) added "I am beyond recall age" but I don't know if that's a good choice because the question is "What would you do IF you were drafted?". Even if you're too old to be drafted, you can surely imagine what you would do if you were drafted.

Besides, I'm 27, under current rules I'm too old to be drafted (I think), but if a draft were enacted, they could easily up the age requirement to include me. So I can't really say that I'm too old.

 

[Frank D. White]

If......

all the young people leave the country, us old ones will be the only ones left to fight?

Frank

:blush:

 

[Fantt]

There's another option for the poll, right? I would guess that if the US tried to draft today's 18 and 19 year old men, an awful lot of them would become gay overnight. Currently, I don't think you can be in the military if you're homosexual. Don't ask, don't tell and all that.

Is that the case? Could a young man get out of military service by announcing he's gay? If so, what sort of proof would the government require? Would young men be willing to prove themselves to be gay over dying for a war they feel is immoral? I might if I was draftable and considered the current war to be immoral.

As for me, I'm too old, but if my son is ever in danger of being drafted for an immoral war we would leave the country.

 

[Duo]

It would depend on the circumstances. If my country is attacked innocently by some other so that it can be invaded I would certainly go and fight. There have been generations and generations of my people that have given their life and spilled their blood to protect the freedom of our nation, starting from the Romans, Ottomans, Slavs and etc, my country has always been on the defensive and never atacked another for reasons other than self defense. So yeah, I view it as a moral obligation that during the thousands of years of my country's history my people have given their life to defend it and its freedom, then what makes me any better, or actually any worse that I would not go and fight. But I would not fight in some stupid useless war that my country would initate, in fact I would rally against it.

 

[Lina Inverse]

Someone (not me) added "I am beyond recall age" but I don't know if that's a good choice because the question is "What would you do IF you were drafted?". Even if you're too old to be drafted, you can surely imagine what you would do if you were drafted.

Besides, I'm 27, under current rules I'm too old to be drafted (I think), but if a draft were enacted, they could easily up the age requirement to include me. So I can't really say that I'm too old.

Yes, that goes additionally in my favor... I'm probably above draft age as well.

 

[Frank D. White]

Holy Cow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes, that goes additionally in my favor... I'm probably above draft age as well.

And all this time I thought you were 13 or 14 at most!!

Frank

:blush:

 

[bossel]

There have been generations and generations of my people that have given their life and spilled their blood to protect the freedom of our nation, starting from the Romans, Ottomans, Slavs and etc, my country has always been on the defensive and never atacked another for reasons other than self defense.

Err..., you're talking about Belgium? I don't think, the nation is that old (independence in 1830/31). If you just talk about the people living there, you can't really claim that they always defended against aggressors (just remember the crusades).

With your stance regarding the poll, I agree, though.

 

[Duo]

Hi bossel, no I'm not talkin about Belgium, I'm a student here, but I am Albanian. So I was talkin about u know old Balkan conflicts etc, you know how it is

Yeah so hmmmm......... I love the balkans but still got a lil of that old feud blood simmering deep down :blush:

 

[Miss_apollo7]

Us females are not included in the draft, but here in Denmark we can choose to get into the military.

I wanted to become a language officer of the reserve when I was about 18-19 of age (doing interrogations in Russian and/or Arabic), and I was qualified to become stationed, however, I also qualified at being accepted at a university in the UK the same year, so I had to choose - I chose the latter after deep thinking and I am happy with the result!

If I had the chance today to become an interrogator, I think I would reconsider the path to become an officer - I think I have matured, changed my mind, or simply: I am happy with my "civilian" life with a great boyfriend and two lovely cats. :bravo:

Anyhow, after university I have ended up within the field of defence (civil work); teaching within communications. I don't want to become a professional soldier.

 

[Lina Inverse]

And all this time I thought you were 13 or 14 at most!!

Suuure... you're the right one to talk there
Haven't you seen any of my photos?

 

[Frank D. White]

Haven't looked there for several months or more!

I'll go see what's new that I missed!

Frank

:blush:

 

[Miss_apollo7]

@Frank:
I think Frank and I have at least one thing in common: SHOOTING!! :lol: I shoot for fun also (not people!), but aim at boards like in dart in a club. I do not hunt though....

 

[CC1]

There's another option for the poll, right? I would guess that if the US tried to draft today's 18 and 19 year old men, an awful lot of them would become gay overnight. Currently, I don't think you can be in the military if you're homosexual. Don't ask, don't tell and all that.

Is that the case? Could a young man get out of military service by announcing he's gay? If so, what sort of proof would the government require? Would young men be willing to prove themselves to be gay over dying for a war they feel is immoral? I might if I was draftable and considered the current war to be immoral.

As for me, I'm too old, but if my son is ever in danger of being drafted for an immoral war we would leave the country.

Yes, that is still an option. I know in my case (when I was training recruits) If one came in and said that he wanted to quit, and said he was gay...I usually laughed. They have to go for a pysche (sp) evaluation once they reveal that. Once I had two kids come in at the same time and say that they were gay...I asked them which one liked the top? They said why? I told them that I wanted them to demonstrate exactly what gay men do.... They changed their minds real quick after that! Then I told them why don't they just kiss then so that I would know that they were for real! They decided that the military wasn't that bad after all!

 

[bossel]

Hi bossel, no I'm not talkin about Belgium, I'm a student here, but I am Albanian. So I was talkin about u know old Balkan conflicts etc, you know how it is

Ah, I see. But I'm always a bit suspicious when people claim that their history is free of aggression against others. Sadly I don't know too much about Albanian history (hrmph!), but I'm pretty sure I could find some black spots there as well. Or maybe the Albanians usually had enough to do with fighting themselves, so they left their neighbours alone. Oh well...

 

[Maciamo]

Once I had two kids come in at the same time and say that they were gay...I asked them which one liked the top? They said why? I told them that I wanted them to demonstrate exactly what gay men do.... They changed their minds real quick after that! Then I told them why don't they just kiss then so that I would know that they were for real! They decided that the military wasn't that bad after all!

How could you force someone to demonstrate they are gay ? Would any straight person accept to kiss or have sex with a stranger of the opposite sex they bring to "prove they are straight" ? Most women wouldn't, but I guess lots of men would say "it depends how beautiful she is". Well, let's take an ugly one, or at least one you personally don't like. As most straight people couldn't be forced to demonstrate their "straightness", I can't imagine the army asking gay people to prove they are gay. The very thought of it sounds so childish that I can't actually believe than grown-ups would believe such a story.

If my country is attacked innocently by some other so that it can be invaded I would certainly go and fight.

I noticed that almost all of you who have expressed their opinion here seem to have a clear idea of what "their country" is. I hear "my country, my country...", but for me these words have little significance. In an age of globalization, when people (from developed countries) can move freely around the world, meet people from all cultures and languages, date or marry some of these people, live and work in almost an country they please... Why should there still be people who would like to die for "their country" ?

I suppose not everybody has an experience of living in many countries like I have, but most (younger) Europeans have studied in at least one another country (even 2 weeks during the summer holiday, if not on a Erasmus programme or similar), most have friends from "other countries".

This forum is the best example of a borderless international community. Would you like to fight and protect "your country" (the establishment of politicians ?) against your fellow board-members or other friends from other countries ? You might even meet and kill each others. And for what ? For politicians or military or business leaders who have decided to go to war or provoke it ? For those same people who have brainwashed their population as all good, democratically elected dictator (like Hitler, Mussolini or Bush) have done ? Stirring the masses with words of hatred for others. Often those who believe this brainwashing are justly people who haven't got friends in the "enemy countries".

But I wouldn't protect my country (which doesn't mean I wouldn't protect myself or people close to me), because I don't know which country that would be. I do not feel attachment to the country where I was born. I grew up in several EU countries. I now live in Japan, which I like a lot. What is my country ? The one where I have lived happiest ? The one of my official nationality ? The one where I have lived the longest ? The one where I have the most friends ? The one which I think is the best ideologically or culturally or politically ? These are all different countries ! I just wish more of you could understand what I feel by having similar experience. At best, I could say that my country is the EU (at least the group of 12 or 15 countries), because that emcopasses most of the above (except Japan). But I know that the EU is already an international community, which have fought together for centuries. Maybe that is also why I find it ridiculous to fight for one's country.

At best a country is a faction. We are all citizens of the world (or world minus a few countries :blush: ) and fighting for one country doesn't make more sense as fighting for one's state or region, or fighting for a political party or for a system. There always need to be a reason to fight. Those bringing the most people together are the reasons of protecting a common land (by not like-minded people who live on it), or a common political system (which can bring countries together like during WWII and the cold war). But in the end, it's always factionalism, and people who die in combat for those "big wars" are rarely those who organized the war or profit from it - almost always the dumb fellows who bravely fought for something they didn't understand and their leaders called "patriotism" or "freedom" - words that mean something to these soldiers, but so detached from the reality at the top).

 

[thomas]

How could you force someone to demonstrate they are gay ? Would any straight person accept to kiss or have sex with a stranger of the opposite sex they bring to "prove they are straight" ? Most women wouldn't, but I guess lots of men would say "it depends how beautiful she is". Well, let's take an ugly one, or at least one you personally don't like. As most straight people couldn't be forced to demonstrate their "straightness", I can't imagine the army asking gay people to prove they are gay. The very thought of it sounds so childish that I can't actually believe than grown-ups would believe such a story.

When I was in the army, I remember that while being in boot camp one of our fellow conscripts claimed to be gay. Well, we knew he wasn't, but he stated that he couldn't "stand the sight of naked men under the shower". As a matter of fact he was singled out, and after a few interviews with the army shrink he was swiftly discharged. A lot of us seriously contemplated about following his example.

 

[CC1]

How could you force someone to demonstrate they are gay ? Would any straight person accept to kiss or have sex with a stranger of the opposite sex they bring to "prove they are straight" ? Most women wouldn't, but I guess lots of men would say "it depends how beautiful she is". Well, let's take an ugly one, or at least one you personally don't like. As most straight people couldn't be forced to demonstrate their "straightness", I can't imagine the army asking gay people to prove they are gay. The very thought of it sounds so childish that I can't actually believe than grown-ups would believe such a story.

See, the power of suggestion. That is all that it was. An 18-22 year old kid (I use the word kid, because that is exactly what they act like) comes in and tells you he's gay. You plant the suggestion that he would have to prove it in some way, and he realizes that this was a poor choice of how to get out of service. Remember, the US doesn't force military service. The men we received for training volunteered by signing up themselves. Once they get there, alone and away from everything/everyone they know, all sorts of thoughts rush through their minds. I did mention that they see a physchiatrist right? The doctor makes the decision based on whether or not the person is fit to continue training. (sometimes they just see a priest for counselling, and the priest can make a recomendation) We never actually made anyone do anything but the power of suggestion does wonders.
Similar tricks were employed on concientious objectors. Maybe Mike will know what I am referring to here? It is truly an eye opener for many young men and women after this exercise.
Military life is very stressful, even without actually going off to fight in a conflict. These are all good tests just to evaluate a person's state of mind and how they will react to such stresses.

So to reiterate, the ARMY (or any other service) doesn't ask you to prove you are gay or not....you go for a medical eval...but sometimes when faced with the possibility of having to prove it, a person will change thier (lie) story.

 

[Fantt]

If faced with the possibility of having to kill someone in an unjust war, I would probably not have much of a problem with whatever type of "gayness" test that the army might throw at me. I would guess that a lot of today's kids wouldn't have much of a problem with that either - especially if the casualty of whatever war was going on was pretty high. I'm not talking about voluntary recruits - I'm talking about draftees - kids being forced involuntarily into military service. Being "gay" would be a pretty quick out for them.