Where did haplogroup T first originate ( 2nd Poll with Expanded options )

[Gedalyah]

Y-DNA haplogroup LT is an old lineage widely distributed at low concentrations. It was established approximately 30,000-40,000 years ago, probably in South Asia or West Asia not North of Alpide

No confirmed cases of the basal paragroup LT* have been identified.

Its descendants are found mainly in populations indigenous to Europe, West Asia, South Asia and Northeast Africa.

L-M20 is found at its highest frequency in Pakistan, Western India, among the Balochs of Afghanistan.

T-M184 is most common in the Horn of Africa, (especially Somaliland, Djibouti and Ethiopia), Arabia, Iran, some regions in Europe and in Eastern India.

 

[Gedalyah]

You asked me to please read the only study you said is but have you?
Mendez 2011
phylogenetic resolution of the Y chromosome haplogroup tree has led to finer temporal and spatial resolution for studies of human migration. Haplogroup T, initially known as K2 and defined by mutation M70, is found at variable frequencies across West Asia, Africa, and Europe. While several SNPs were recently discovered that extended the length of the branch leading to haplogroup T, only two SNPs are known to mark internal branches of haplogroup T. This low level of phylogenetic resolution has hindered studies of the origin and dispersal of this interesting haplogroup, which is found in Near Eastern non-Jewish populations, Jewish populations from several communities, and in the patrilineage of President Thomas Jefferson. Here we map 10 new SNPs that, together with the previously known SNPs, mark 11 lineages and two large subclades (T1a and T1b) of haplogroup T. We also report a new SNP that links haplogroups T and L within the major framework of Y chromosome evolution. Estimates of the timing of the branching events within haplogroup T, along with a comprehensive geographic survey of the major T subclades, suggest that this haplogroup began to diversify in the Near East -25 kya. Our survey also points to a complex history of dispersal of this rare and informative haplogroup within the Near East and from the Near East to Europe and sub-Saharan Africa. The presence of T1a2 chromosomes in Near Eastern Jewish and non-Jewish populations may reflect early exiles between the ancient lands of Israel and Babylon. The presence of different subclades of T chromosomes in Europe may be explained by both the spread of Neolithic farmers and the later dispersal of Jews from the Near East. Finally, the moderately high frequency (-18%) of T1b* chromosomes in the Lemba of southern Africa supports the hypothesis of a Near Eastern, but not necessarily a Jewish, origin for their paternal line.

 

[Gedalyah]

You must read and learn
Mendez 2011
phylogenetic resolution of the Y chromosome haplogroup tree has led to finer temporal and spatial resolution for studies of human migration. Haplogroup T, initially known as K2 and defined by mutation M70, is found at variable frequencies across West Asia, Africa, and Europe. While several SNPs were recently discovered that extended the length of the branch leading to haplogroup T, only two SNPs are known to mark internal branches of haplogroup T. This low level of phylogenetic resolution has hindered studies of the origin and dispersal of this interesting haplogroup, which is found in Near Eastern non-Jewish populations, Jewish populations from several communities, and in the patrilineage of President Thomas Jefferson. Here we map 10 new SNPs that, together with the previously known SNPs, mark 11 lineages and two large subclades (T1a and T1b) of haplogroup T. We also report a new SNP that links haplogroups T and L within the major framework of Y chromosome evolution. Estimates of the timing of the branching events within haplogroup T, along with a comprehensive geographic survey of the major T subclades, suggest that this haplogroup began to diversify in the Near East -25 kya. Our survey also points to a complex history of dispersal of this rare and informative haplogroup within the Near East and from the Near East to Europe and sub-Saharan Africa. The presence of T1a2 chromosomes in Near Eastern Jewish and non-Jewish populations may reflect early exiles between the ancient lands of Israel and Babylon. The presence of different subclades of T chromosomes in Europe may be explained by both the spread of Neolithic farmers and the later dispersal of Jews from the Near East. Finally, the moderately high frequency (-18%) of T1b* chromosomes in the Lemba of southern Africa supports the hypothesis of a Near Eastern, but not necessarily a Jewish, origin for their paternal line.

 

[Gedalyah]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenaz
Hebrew Bible. In the genealogies of the Hebrew Bible, Ashkenaz (Hebrew: אַשְׁכְּנַז 'Aškănaz) was a descendant of Noah. He was the first son of Gomer and brother of Riphath and Togarmah (Genesis 10:3, 1 Chronicles 1:6), with Gomer being the grandson of Noah through Japheth. J2 Haplogroup Ashkenazi Jews don't fit Scripture as does AT,BT,CT,DE,FT, KT,LT, T scattered throughout the 4corners in indigenous peoples Africa Asia Australia America and 1% in Europe, J can't say that.

 

[Gedalyah]

Look at I to understand J they possible are Esau and K is northern sons of Jacob by way of Abraham F, DE being the Southern sons of Jacob by Shemite origins. Look at the Andaman islands D and K L P, haplogroup T Lemba at 18% this people are not Japheth.

 

[Gedalyah]

Look at I to understand J they possible are Esau and K is northern sons of Jacob by way of Abraham FT. The Andaman islands D and K L P haplogroup T found in the Lemba this people are not Japheth

 

[Angela]

We have moved far beyond looking for genetics answers in religious texts. Please read the scientific papers that have been posted upthread.

 

[Sile]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenaz
Hebrew Bible. In the genealogies of the Hebrew Bible, Ashkenaz (Hebrew: אַשְׁכְּנַז 'Aškănaz) was a descendant of Noah. He was the first son of Gomer and brother of Riphath and Togarmah (Genesis 10:3, 1 Chronicles 1:6), with Gomer being the grandson of Noah through Japheth. J2 Haplogroup Ashkenazi Jews don't fit Scripture as does AT,BT,CT,DE,FT, KT,LT, T scattered throughout the 4corners in indigenous peoples Africa Asia Australia America and 1% in Europe, J can't say that.

I do not care what these religious people say.

the link below is the current y Dna tree for every haplogroup

T haplogroup comes from the K group

https://www.yfull.com/tree/

 

[Alpenjager]

is the view of Gareth Henson, administrator of the Haplogroup T project at FTDNA: "I think both T and L originated in the Iraq/Iran region but whereas the branches of L all went in different directions I don't see a similar pattern for T. The main groups are T1a and T1b. Both seem to have spread out together, but T1a shows more variation."

The Gareth's view by November was "Well, the most recent common ancestor of T1 and T2 was a single individual and he might have lived in Azerbaijan, or Bhutan, or somewhere in between, or somewhere a bit further south or west, but I doubt if he or his sons and grandsons travelled very far from the region where they were born." This is his most recent known view.

He have the same information as all of us up to date: One T2 member from Germany, one T2 member from a Flemish colony, one T2 member from the Kura-Araks Basin and one T2 member from Bhutan. This is Two T2 members from the North European Plain, one from the north of the Alpide belt in west Asia and one from the Himalayas. The last word would be when all of them test with BigY or Y-Elite 2.0 and then we will know who of them is most basally splitted.

The T ancestor could have lived anywhere between North European Plain and Himalayas.

 

[Rethel]

Is there any place, where T1* and T2* can be found together?

T is so scattered, that it could be, that it is Canaanite hg...
Also almost all places where it is, can be explain by known wanderings of them.
But there is to many but, from the other sides, so...

 

[Sile]

Is there any place, where T1* and T2* can be found together?

T is so scattered, that it could be, that it is Canaanite hg...
Also almost all places where it is, can be explain by known wanderings of them.
But there is to many but, from the other sides, so...

IMO

LT-L298 (~48000ybp ) where, according to geneticAtlas in 2010 ( if they are correct ) are from Sind-Valley northern India .............I am unsure , but ?

from ~44000ybp T-M184 was created in the upper alpide belt ( I agree with Alpenjager)

T-M184 split into T2-PH110 branch as well as T-L206 branch

Below are the SNP's for T2 as per isogg T

T2 PH110, PH196, PH478, PH526, PH550, PH768, PH933, PH1092, PH1106, PH1172, PH1268, PH1294, PH1343, PH1378, PH1434, PH1457, PH1546, PH1579, PH1583, PH1633, PH1691, PH1841, PH1867, PH1883, PH2017, PH2156, PH2279, PH2292, PH2328, PH2855, PH2861, PH2900, PH2933, PH2990, PH3010, PH3131, PH3150, PH3341, PH3399, PH3422, PH3474, PH3561, PH3721, PH3842, PH3862, PH3868, PH3922, PH3943, PH3996, PH4121, PH4216, PH4431, PH4591, PH4676, PH4746, PH4802, PH4834, PH4842, PH4892, PH4935, PH5136, PH5171, PH5181, PH5212, PH5256, PH5433

 

[Alpenjager]

IMO

LT-L298 (~48000ybp ) where, according to geneticAtlas in 2010 ( if they are correct ) are from Sind-Valley northern India .............I am unsure , but ?

from ~44000ybp T-M184 was created in the upper alpide belt ( I agree with Alpenjager)

T-M184 split into T2-PH110 branch as well as T-L206 branch

Below are the SNP's for T2 as per isogg T

T2 PH110, PH196, PH478, PH526, PH550, PH768, PH933, PH1092, PH1106, PH1172, PH1268, PH1294, PH1343, PH1378, PH1434, PH1457, PH1546, PH1579, PH1583, PH1633, PH1691, PH1841, PH1867, PH1883, PH2017, PH2156, PH2279, PH2292, PH2328, PH2855, PH2861, PH2900, PH2933, PH2990, PH3010, PH3131, PH3150, PH3341, PH3399, PH3422, PH3474, PH3561, PH3721, PH3842, PH3862, PH3868, PH3922, PH3943, PH3996, PH4121, PH4216, PH4431, PH4591, PH4676, PH4746, PH4802, PH4834, PH4842, PH4892, PH4935, PH5136, PH5171, PH5181, PH5212, PH5256, PH5433

This map show pretty well the haplogroup L-M20 distribution:



If someone take into account the distribution of both T-M184 and L-M20 basally splitted branches, T2 and L2, none never will though on a "South Asian" origin for LT but instead all points to the same possible area of origin as we can see for T-M184.

 

[Gedalyah]

T is West Asia or North Africa

 

[Alpenjager]

T is West Asia or North Africa

Your posts are being useless. I recomend you to do some research before spitting claims without any sense. Also, you should update your sources and keep away your religious tendences.

 

[Gedalyah]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:GedalYah this is my wiki page . I have been studying Haplogroup T for over 2 years. I recently saw claims of the north of the Aplide belt (Asia)and alpine(Europe) on wiki but no sources have been made public. I have been looking everywhere for this Research claim of new information but nothing, so can you show me what research I have missed. please send link

 

[Sile]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:GedalYah this is my wiki page . I have been studying Haplogroup T for over 2 years. I recently saw claims of the north of the Aplide belt (Asia)and alpine(Europe) on wiki but no sources have been made public. I have been looking everywhere for this Research claim of new information but nothing, so can you show me what research I have missed. please send link

You really need to check the ages ( year formed ) in the T tree in yfull to understand what you say makes no sense.

 

[halfalp]

My guess gonna be Mesopotamia, for the last 10'000 years, but i'm not sure, T could also be like J or L ( ??? ) minor haplogroups of basal F,G,H in the Alpin Belt and then after the migration with the neolithic, become a primarly haplogroup.

 

[Sile]

My guess gonna be Mesopotamia, for the last 10'000 years, but i'm not sure, T could also be like J or L ( ??? ) minor haplogroups of basal F,G,H in the Alpin Belt and then after the migration with the neolithic, become a primarly haplogroup.

It is confirmed as south caspian area , north of the zargos mountains...............no where near mesopotamia .......along with L
J2 is caucasus

And it is alpide belt and not alpine

cheers

 

[Alpenjager]

My guess gonna be Mesopotamia, for the last 10'000 years, but i'm not sure, T could also be like J or L ( ??? ) minor haplogroups of basal F,G,H in the Alpin Belt and then after the migration with the neolithic, become a primarly haplogroup.

J is a completly different lineage but is found in the Paleolithic North Europe and Caucasus.
L haplogroup most probably have their origins somewhere between Europe and Caspian sea.
G and H are less closely related than J or I. Most probably G and H first meet T in the early Neolithic.

 

[Gedalyah]

Show any research that uses the word Alpide Belt or North of the Alpine Belt Europe and Himalaya? This is made up. Like I stated I have studied genetics for over two years