Where did haplogroup T first originate ( 2nd Poll with Expanded options )

[Alpenjager]

Show any research that uses the word Alpide Belt or North of the Alpine Belt Europe and Himalaya? This is made up. Like I stated I have studied genetics for over two years

You go again and again but finally you only hear your own religious voice. So, I wonder why you keep asking compulsively.

Then, go with another try:

1. There is still NO published research on T-M184 (xL206).
2. There is only one T-M184 (xL206) sample found in a published paper. And this individual is from Himalaya.
3. Only one T1-L206 sample is used in a unique paper.
4. There are only 4 known T-M184 (xL206) individuals up to date. 3 found in FTDNA (1 of them in YFULL) and the other one is found in the Hallast paper.
5. 4 out of 4 are from North of the Alpide belt: North European Plain, Kura-Araks basin and Himalayas.
6. "Alpine belt Europe" You have a mess.
7. Two years, Congratulations.

 

[Megalophias]

Since when is Bhutan north of the Himalayas, or Kura-Araxes Basin north of the Caucasus?

 

[Sile]

Since when is Bhutan north of the Himalayas, or Kura-Araxes Basin north of the Caucasus?

Bhutan is on the humalayan mountains

Bhutan (/buːˈtɑːn/; འབྲུག་ཡུལ་ druk yul), officially the Kingdom of Bhutan (འབྲུག་རྒྱལ་ཁབ་ druk gyal khap),^[10] is a landlocked country and the second largest Himalayan state in Asia. Located in the Eastern Himalayas,


As for Kura-Araxes, it is north of the Zargos mountains...and the Zargos mountains are part of the Alpide belt

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e1/Alpiner_Gebirgsgürtel.png

Looks north of the Alpide belt to me

from:
Cyprus (Troodos Mountains), Taurus Mountains, Zagros Mountains, Makran Highland, Sulaiman Mountains, Karakoram, Himalayas, Patkai, Chin Hills, Arakan Mountains, Andaman and Nicobar Islands in South Asia.

 

[Gedalyah]

Alpide shows up as a misspelling on any spell check lol see for yourself

 

[Gedalyah]

Kingdom of Bhutan looks on it but not north of it but what about Andhra Pradesh, West Bengal, Uttara Kannada 13% or H.O.A. and North Africa, Dir and ISSA? Sir these people are not Europeans.

Zagros Mountains are 0°32'29.3%22N+56°36'41.9%22E parallel with Israel FYI

31°29'59.5"N 50°26'35.3"E

 

[Alpenjager]

Since when is Bhutan north of the Himalayas, or Kura-Araxes Basin north of the Caucasus?

I think that is pretty clear. According with the three positions, do you think is most in line with the North of the Alpide belt or instead with the south of the Alpide belt?

 

[Alpenjager]

Kingdom of Bhutan looks on it but not north of it but what about Andhra Pradesh, West Bengal, Uttara Kannada 13% or H.O.A. and North Africa, Dir and ISSA? Sir these people are not Europeans.

Zagros Mountains are 0°32'29.3%22N+56°36'41.9%22E parallel with Israel FYI

31°29'59.5"N 50°26'35.3"E

Are you understanding what we are talking about here? All haplogroup T members in Andhra Pradesh, West Bengal, Uttara Kannada and HOA are belonging to subclades of T1a1a-L208. They all are useless to predict T-M184 origin. Because of that we are using the most basal branch known up to date T2-PH110.

 

[Megalophias]

View attachment 8361 I think that is pretty clear. According with the three positions, do you think is most in line with the North of the Alpide belt or instead with the south of the Alpide belt?

Why on earth do you insist on describing it in terms of the Alpide belt? Two out of three are *not* north of the Alpide belt, so that is a terrible description. Personally I would call it "Eurasian, very rare". Distribution based on such a small number of samples is mere illusion caused by sample bias.

 

[Sile]

Why on earth do you insist on describing it in terms of the Alpide belt? Two out of three are *not* north of the Alpide belt, so that is a terrible description. Personally I would call it "Eurasian, very rare". Distribution based on such a small number of samples is mere illusion caused by sample bias.

?

The map he presented show north of the alpide ...............Iran is north of the alpide, basically the zargos mountains and north of these mountains is the same as north of the alpide belt

Basic principal is that all people populated Mesopotamia from north of the zargos mountains ....................even today's paper of SW-Asia ( arabian peninsula ) states that the ydna of the peninsula came via the Caucasus mountains ............there are ~8500 samples

 

[Alpenjager]

Why on earth do you insist on describing it in terms of the Alpide belt? Two out of three are *not* north of the Alpide belt, so that is a terrible description. Personally I would call it "Eurasian, very rare". Distribution based on such a small number of samples is mere illusion caused by sample bias.

All haplogroups have been described as better as possible using the available information. Even Spencer Wells with much less evidences claimed 10 years ago that T1a-M70 was of Phoenician origin (not just Levantine, Near Eastern or West Asian) Now proved to be absolutly wrong. Why on earth we shouldn't do it with T-M184?

T-M184 is "Eurasian", yes. And is "very rare", yes. But we can't use the available information to try to predict as better as possible, why? Just because of you? I think is fairly safe crossing all the information available, not just although especially important T2-PH110 but also L-M20 and T1-L206 basal branches together with ancientDNA findings.

 

[Megalophias]

All haplogroups have been described as better as possible using the available information. Even Spencer Wells with much less evidences claimed 10 years ago that T-M70 was of Phoenician origin (not just Levantine, Near Eastern or West Asian) Now proved to be absolutly wrong. Why on earth we shouldn't do it with T-M184?

Describing its distribution as "north of the Alpide belt" is not describing it as well as possible: it is describing it very badly.

You can of course do whatever you want, but if you have very little information to go on, then you are likely to be as wrong as Spencer Wells.

 

[Alpenjager]

Two out of three are *not* north of the Alpide belt

There are 4 samples but three geographical points. Please read the previous posts in this thread.

Describing its distribution as "north of the Alpide belt" is not describing it as well as possible: it is describing it very badly.

You can of course do whatever you want, but if you have very little information to go on, then you are likely to be as wrong as Spencer Wells.

Yes, very badly but I'm satisfied to be in the same line of opinon as Gareth Henson, administrator of FTDNA haplogroup T project, who points to some places in the north of the Alpide belt.

All T2-PH110 known samples: Most basal known branch of T-M184. All L2-L595 known samples: Most basal known branch of L-M20. All T1b known samples: Most basal known T1-L206 branch.

By the way, curiously you have created your Eupedia account just for post here. A bit suspicious. Of course, you can do what you want. Welcome to the forum Erudite.

 

[Megalophias]

By the way, curiously you have created your Eupedia account just for post here. A bit suspicious. Of course, you can do what you want. Welcome to the forum Erudite.

Thanks. Actually I registered three months ago (after much lurking) and first posted on the Iberomaurusian aDNA thread. Honestly I am just posting now to avoid doing real work.

 

[Sile]

There are 4 samples but three geographical points. Please read the previous posts in this thread.



Yes, very badly but I'm satisfied to be in the same line of opinon as Gareth Henson, administrator of FTDNA haplogroup T project, who points to some places in the north of the Alpide belt.

View attachment 8362 All T2-PH110 known samples: Most basal known branch of T-M184. All L2-L595 known samples: Most basal known branch of L-M20. All L1b known samples: Most basal known T1-L206 branch.

By the way, curiously you have created your Eupedia account just for post here. A bit suspicious. Of course, you can do what you want. Welcome to the forum Erudite.

the only way to show people is to plot the markers via a map the ages as they are listed in Yfull

then you will see the pattern of age and maybe even migration of the T

 

[Alpenjager]

the only way to show people is to plot the markers via a map the ages as they are listed in Yfull

then you will see the pattern of age and maybe even migration of the T

The most effective way to predict T-M184 origin is crossing T2 sample distribution vs L2 and T1b samples. Also we could use samples belonging to basal branches of T1a1, T1a2 and T1a3 combined.

Adding the most basal T1a-M70 samples of L446, PH141, L162, Y11675, Y8614.

 

[Angela]

Thanks. Actually I registered three months ago (after much lurking) and first posted on the Iberomaurusian aDNA thread. Honestly I am just posting now to avoid doing real work.

Join the club.

Your contributions are very astute. Happy to have you.

 

[Azzurro]

It is confirmed as south caspian area , north of the zargos mountains...............no where near mesopotamia .......along with L
J2 is caucasus

And it is alpide belt and not alpine

cheers

I think it is great how dedicated you are to researching the history of T, I am sure that you will find out the answer in future with upcoming ancient dna samples. As for J2, I don't personally think it is Caucasian in origin, and that I believe it formed in the area just south, around the Zagros/Lake Van or Western Iranian plateau.

 

[Megalophias]

Happy to have you.

Thanks! Nice place you've got here.

 

[Sile]

I think it is great how dedicated you are to researching the history of T, I am sure that you will find out the answer in future with upcoming ancient dna samples. As for J2, I don't personally think it is Caucasian in origin, and that I believe it formed in the area just south, around the Zagros/Lake Van or Western Iranian plateau.

thanks

today new paper - which I included in another thread states

The earliest dates, with the oldest differentiations for J2 at 8.4 ka, and J1 at 8.9 ka, show an early divergence between the Caucasus from the rest of the populations.

But lake Van is close enough

In regards to T ............why not be dedicated to my line ..........with a completed YFull ( early Feb 2017 for STR ) I am a new branch along with an eastern Frenchman who is 600 years younger than me ...........an indication my line went north from the Alps ...IMO

 

[Azzurro]

thanks

today new paper - which I included in another thread states

The earliest dates, with the oldest differentiations for J2 at 8.4 ka, and J1 at 8.9 ka, show an early divergence between the Caucasus from the rest of the populations.

But lake Van is close enough

In regards to T ............why not be dedicated to my line ..........with a completed YFull ( early Feb 2017 for STR ) I am a new branch along with an eastern Frenchman who is 600 years younger than me ...........an indication my line went north from the Alps ...IMO

My pleasure,

Of course, as am I with J2, I did BigY and transferred my results to Yfull in August, I just got my Str results 2 days ago, J2 has many subclades and I think it hard to pinpoint one exact location for all of them, there is definitely a migration of J2 to the Caucasus. I have formulated for the L210 and Pre-L210 lineages and the down streams, Pre-L210 kits (they have all the upstreams but are negative for L210) seem to be either Lebanese or Syrian, L210 and down streams have a much wider diversity. What did this paper say for T? Haplogroup T fascinates me, I find it a very interesting haplogroup.