Excine
Regular Member
- Messages
- 376
- Reaction score
- 153
- Points
- 43
- Ethnic group
- Albanian
- Y-DNA haplogroup
- E-FT19186
- mtDNA haplogroup
- H2a1c
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jire%C4%8Dek_Line#/media/File:Language_border_(Matzinger).png
Albanians and Vlachs could not have originated east of the central Balkans' Latin-speaking region.
Hellenization occurred among the Bessi and other Thracians. They have no resemblance to Albanians or Vlachs.
The history of the Albanian language is one of contraction, not one of expansion. For Albanian to be spoken in Albani territory why does it have to be excluded from Dardania or vice-versa?
The original Balkan Latin-speakers possessed far more E-V13 and J-L283 than contemporary Romanians.
Romanians are approximately 10-15% E-V13 and 5% J-L283, however the Basarab dynasty of Wallachia carried a disproportionate amount of E-V13/J-L283 compared to modern Romanians https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3404992/
Given what we know about the E-V13/J-L283 phylogeny among Romanians, it cannot be disputed that the majority of it originated south of the Danube.
Eric Prendergast (2017), The Origin and Spread of Locative Determiner Omission in the Balkan Linguistic Area :
Despite these difficulties, scholars versed in the literature have made suggestions about possible paleo-Balkan lineages for Albanian, which would clarify the timeline and geographical range of the earliest contact between Albanian and Late Latin (later to become Balkan Romance). Illyrian or Thracian are forwarded as the primary candidates (Çabej 1971:42), with Illyrian having some scholarly consensus (Thunmann 1774:240, Kopitar 1829:85, Katičić 1976:184-188, Polomé 1982:888)—but there is a significant lack of verified inscriptions (Çabej 1971:41, Woodard 2004:11, Mann 1977: 1) and it is unclear whether ‘Illyrian’ as a term used in Roman records even referred to a single common language from which modern Albanian could descend (Hamp 1994). There is, however, evidence that Albanian was spoken over a broader territory in the Balkans than the
contemporary range of territory occupied by its speaker community today (Çabej 1971:41, Demiraj 2004:98, 104). A number of important toponyms in Macedonia, southern Serbia, and Kosovo show reflexes of Albanian phonological developments; e.g. Astibos > Albanian Shtip, Slavic Štip (in eastern Macedonia), Naissus > Albanian Nish, Slavic Niš (in southern Serbia) (Pulaha 1984:11).
The toponym Dobreta, because of its greater distance as mentioned above places, the potential range of the predecessor to Albanian up to the banks of the Danube. This was also the range of significant Latin influence (north of the Jireček Line, which is recognized as the customary division of a northern zone of Latin language influence and from a southern zone of Greek language influence, [Jireček 1911, Friedman 2001b:29]) and corresponded to the area inhabited by pastoral speakers of Balkan Romance well into the Middle Ages. This fits well with a theory forwarded in particular by Hamp (1994) that Albanian is the result of an autochthonous Balkan language that has undergone partial Romanization, while Balkan Romance represents a full language shift, whereby the early form of this Balkan language (its “proto-Albanian” linguistic predecessor) was fully absorbed into Late Latin.
http://linguistics.berkeley.edu/~mikkelsen/papers/ucbdissertation-prendergast.pdf
For linguists these "Proto-Romanians" who moved from south of the Danube to Romania are Proto-Albanian-speakers who switched to Latin.
Albanians and Vlachs could not have originated east of the central Balkans' Latin-speaking region.
Hellenization occurred among the Bessi and other Thracians. They have no resemblance to Albanians or Vlachs.
The history of the Albanian language is one of contraction, not one of expansion. For Albanian to be spoken in Albani territory why does it have to be excluded from Dardania or vice-versa?
The original Balkan Latin-speakers possessed far more E-V13 and J-L283 than contemporary Romanians.
Romanians are approximately 10-15% E-V13 and 5% J-L283, however the Basarab dynasty of Wallachia carried a disproportionate amount of E-V13/J-L283 compared to modern Romanians https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3404992/
Given what we know about the E-V13/J-L283 phylogeny among Romanians, it cannot be disputed that the majority of it originated south of the Danube.
Eric Prendergast (2017), The Origin and Spread of Locative Determiner Omission in the Balkan Linguistic Area :
Despite these difficulties, scholars versed in the literature have made suggestions about possible paleo-Balkan lineages for Albanian, which would clarify the timeline and geographical range of the earliest contact between Albanian and Late Latin (later to become Balkan Romance). Illyrian or Thracian are forwarded as the primary candidates (Çabej 1971:42), with Illyrian having some scholarly consensus (Thunmann 1774:240, Kopitar 1829:85, Katičić 1976:184-188, Polomé 1982:888)—but there is a significant lack of verified inscriptions (Çabej 1971:41, Woodard 2004:11, Mann 1977: 1) and it is unclear whether ‘Illyrian’ as a term used in Roman records even referred to a single common language from which modern Albanian could descend (Hamp 1994). There is, however, evidence that Albanian was spoken over a broader territory in the Balkans than the
contemporary range of territory occupied by its speaker community today (Çabej 1971:41, Demiraj 2004:98, 104). A number of important toponyms in Macedonia, southern Serbia, and Kosovo show reflexes of Albanian phonological developments; e.g. Astibos > Albanian Shtip, Slavic Štip (in eastern Macedonia), Naissus > Albanian Nish, Slavic Niš (in southern Serbia) (Pulaha 1984:11).
The toponym Dobreta, because of its greater distance as mentioned above places, the potential range of the predecessor to Albanian up to the banks of the Danube. This was also the range of significant Latin influence (north of the Jireček Line, which is recognized as the customary division of a northern zone of Latin language influence and from a southern zone of Greek language influence, [Jireček 1911, Friedman 2001b:29]) and corresponded to the area inhabited by pastoral speakers of Balkan Romance well into the Middle Ages. This fits well with a theory forwarded in particular by Hamp (1994) that Albanian is the result of an autochthonous Balkan language that has undergone partial Romanization, while Balkan Romance represents a full language shift, whereby the early form of this Balkan language (its “proto-Albanian” linguistic predecessor) was fully absorbed into Late Latin.
http://linguistics.berkeley.edu/~mikkelsen/papers/ucbdissertation-prendergast.pdf
For linguists these "Proto-Romanians" who moved from south of the Danube to Romania are Proto-Albanian-speakers who switched to Latin.