Where does the Albanian language come from? [VIDEO]

[torzio]

Noricum and illyrian in presence

 

[lynxbythetv]

Noricum and illyrian in presence

Torzio what is your take on the previous 200 pages because your posts or atleast the one above are similar to mine ?

 

[torzio]

That the alb

Torzio what is your take on the previous 200 pages because your posts or atleast the one above are similar to mine ?

that the albanians are more Dardanian in %, followed by Paeonian, then Epirote and Macedonian ......................thracian and illyrian arrived in their lands far too late and the % would be less than 10%.............the Romans also mentions no illyrian along the main trade highway from Durres to constantinople, a very important patrolled area

The romans had some type of Hate towards the Illyrian tribes ending up in the great Illyrian revolt..............where the Romans dispersed them all over the empire after the Roman victory

 

[lynxbythetv]

That the alb

that the albanians are more Dardanian in %, followed by Paeonian, then Epirote and Macedonian ......................thracian and illyrian arrived in their lands far too late and the % would be less than 10%.............the Romans also mentions no illyrian along the main trade highway from Durres to constantinople, a very important patrolled area

The romans had some type of Hate towards the Illyrian tribes ending up in the great Illyrian revolt..............where the Romans dispersed them all over the empire after the Roman victory

So do you think the Illyrians were traders/pirates and not that much different to Vikings or settled tribes who were basically wiped out ? I do think it's a fair observation and it might throw some concern on modern albanian theories and how they are Illyrians. The language did survive though.
Those tribes you mentioned which ones are R1B, J2, L and E.

 

[Archetype0ne]

So do you think the Illyrians were traders/pirates and not that much different to Vikings or settled tribes who were basically wiped out ? I do think it's a fair observation and it might throw some concern on modern albanian theories and how they are Illyrians. The language did survive though.
Those tribes you mentioned which ones are R1B, J2, L and E.

Mate, do yourself a favor and read Southern Arc paper specifically the supplement (no need to read the whole 700 pages, use ctrl F "Albania") and get up to speed. You are way behind the curve.

 

[lynxbythetv]

Mate, do yourself a favor and read Southern Arc paper specifically the supplement (no need to read the whole 700 pages, use ctrl F "Albania") and get up to speed. You are way behind the curve.

The albanian language is not derived from an Anatolian substrate it's straight from the Hallstatt Rhaetic culture. I'm getting far far too many hits with Albanian etymology to just waive it off it by saying southern arc paper.

 

[lynxbythetv]

Albanian Besa. Which is basically a Clannish promise of death.

Irish Gaelic. Bas. https://www.teanglann.ie/en/eid/bás

The Albanian language is not that difficult nor is it an Indo European language on its lonesome.

 

[Archetype0ne]

Albanian Besa. Which is basically a Clannish promise of death.

Irish Gaelic. Bas. https://www.teanglann.ie/en/eid/bás

The Albanian language is not that difficult nor is it an Indo European language on its lonesome.

You are mudding things. Besa means pledge of honor, you are confusing it with the blood feud, as besa has little to do with "promise of death". Its root is "besim" trust/faith/believe.

Gaelic Bas on the other hand has nothing to do with these roots, rather it means:

bereavement » Bás
death » Bás
decease » bás
demise » Bás
dying » Bás
passing » Bás
passing away » Bás

Just like Slavic languages can share common roots with Sanskrit, Albanian can shares common roots with Icelandic. That's the whole point of the IE language family. Being in ones own branch has nothing to do with this, it just means that there are no other languages within the same family of languages (ie Latin: Italian, Spanish, French etc, or Slavic: Most of Eastern Europe).

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abg0818

 

[monster]

So do you think the Illyrians were traders/pirates and not that much different to Vikings or settled tribes who were basically wiped out ? I do think it's a fair observation and it might throw some concern on modern albanian theories and how they are Illyrians. The language did survive though.
Those tribes you mentioned which ones are R1B, J2, L and E.

The Albanian language originated in the Central Balkans from the Dardani and not on the adriatic coast, it has Thracian/Dacian influence. Michel De Vaan and Matzingers theories are the most plausible for where Albanian originated as of now. Though some of its speakers also migrated there on the coast at one point which is how the whole name Albanoi / Arbanon was probably picked up.

 

[monster]

 

[epirus1000]

Pune shume e mire. Gjithsesi duhet plotesuar sepse ka perseri plot toponime te tjera, si psh Gruemire ne Shkoder qe eshte permendur ne Deftere, etj.

 

[norbert]

I don't know what the "legend" on that map says but a great many toponyms seem arbitrarily interpreted as Albanian when in fact they're Slavic or Vlach-related. For instance, there are place names related to the Vlach tribes of Males and Burmaz. Kutlesh comes from the profession of "kutlesa", a term derived from kutljaca which is some sort of spoon or ladle. Its etymology is Greek (from kotúlē). One might also argue that Berisha is a Slavic name due to the Slavic suffix -isa (as in Borisa, Sinisa, Radisa etc.). And there's an interesting oddity: many places cannot be found on Google.

 

[monster]

I don't know what the "legend" on that map says but a great many toponyms seem arbitrarily interpreted as Albanian when in fact they're Slavic or Vlach-related. For instance, there are place names related to the Vlach tribes of Males and Burmaz. Kutlesh comes from the profession of "kutlesa", a term derived from kutljaca which is some sort of spoon or ladle. Its etymology is Greek (from kotúlē). One might also argue that Berisha is a Slavic name due to the Slavic suffix -isa (as in Borisa, Sinisa, Radisa etc.). And there's an interesting oddity: many places cannot be found on Google.

Berisha is also an old tribe or a name also in Albanian, some words are shared with Vlachs, 'Lesh' is an Albanian name, good chunk of these toponyms are not Slavic but Albanian , in many cases mixed with Slavic. Some might be wrong indeed, that doesn't change that even Slavic placenames were inhabited by Albanians which I have also seen, as it was also occupied by various Slavic speaking empires and they brought these, or they got mixed with Albanian words. Some placenames would have one Albanian name and one Slavic name or with a Slavic suffix -iq but with an Albanian word. He forgot some good parts. And there are many more. If you doubt it you can just look at toponyms from the medieval period even in the toplica-nish area which testisifes to Albanian people there since the medieval period at least.

Arbanaška River

Arbanaška River is a river located in the municipality of Prokuplje, Serbia. Mapcarta, the open map.

mapcarta.com

Mapcarta

Explore the world with Mapcarta, the open map. Discover open knowledge from OpenStreetMap, Wikipedia and more.

mapcarta.com

Arbanaška planina

Arbanaška Mountain is a mountain in southern Serbia, near the town of Bojnik. Mapcarta, the open map.

mapcarta.com

Kastrat

Kastrat is a village in south Serbia, located in the Kuršumlija municipality, Toplica District. Kastrat has about 190 residents. Mapcarta, the open map.

mapcarta.com

Berišane

Berišane is a locality in Opština Prokuplje, Toplica District, Central Serbia. Berišane is situated nearby to Rangina Mala and Donja Trnava.

mapcarta.com

Arnautski Potok

Arnautski Potok is a stream in Serbia. Arnautski Potok is situated nearby to Paljevine and Ljutički Krst. Mapcarta, the open map.

mapcarta.com

https://mapcarta.com/13931886

Ljuša

Ljuša is a village in the municipality of Kuršumlija, Serbia. Ljuša has about 68 residents. Mapcarta, the open map.

mapcarta.com

Djake

Đake is a village in the municipality of Kuršumlija, Serbia. Djake has about 25 residents. Mapcarta, the open map.

mapcarta.com

Arbanaško Brdo

Arbanaško Hill is a hill in Serbia and is close to Pećanci, Staro Selo Dedinac and Petrovići. Arbanaško Brdo has an elevation of 601 metres.

mapcarta.com

There are names for rivers and mountains that are still there named after Albanians.

Interesting how you insist these toponyms on the map are Vlach or Slavic when in fact it is confirmed they were inhabited by Albanians as shown by 15th and 16th registers even. Weird how this territory is not demographically dominated nor by Vlachs nor by Slavs but by Albanian also. The toponyms are a mix of Albanian and Slavic.

 

[monster]

I also forgot of course, it is pretty normal that some toponyms or placenames don't exist today also , this is even good cases with many obvious Slavic ones .

 

[monster]

Pune shume e mire. Gjithsesi duhet plotesuar sepse ka perseri plot toponime te tjera, si psh Gruemire ne Shkoder qe eshte permendur ne Deftere, etj.

I could probably do a much better work than this map , I would personally mostly go first for the obvious ones if I was gonna create such a map. But Slavic placenames were also inhabited by Albanians but it's not what the map is for. Also many placenames are like mix of Slavic and Albanian . And in registers Albanians bore Slavic names too.

 

[norbert]

Berisha is also an old tribe or a name also in Albanian, some words are shared with Vlachs, 'Lesh' is an Albanian name, good chunk of these toponyms are not Slavic but Albanian , in many cases mixed with Slavic. Some might be wrong indeed, that doesn't change that even Slavic placenames were inhabited by Albanians which I have also seen, as it was also occupied by various Slavic speaking empires and they brought these, or they got mixed with Albanian words. Some placenames would have one Albanian name and one Slavic name or with a Slavic suffix -iq but with an Albanian word. He forgot some good parts. And there are many more. If you doubt it you can just look at toponyms from the medieval period even in the toplica-nish area which testisifes to Albanian people there since the medieval period at least.

Arbanaška River

Arbanaška River is a river located in the municipality of Prokuplje, Serbia. Mapcarta, the open map.

mapcarta.com

Mapcarta

Explore the world with Mapcarta, the open map. Discover open knowledge from OpenStreetMap, Wikipedia and more.

mapcarta.com

Arbanaška planina

Arbanaška Mountain is a mountain in southern Serbia, near the town of Bojnik. Mapcarta, the open map.

mapcarta.com

Kastrat

Kastrat is a village in south Serbia, located in the Kuršumlija municipality, Toplica District. Kastrat has about 190 residents. Mapcarta, the open map.

mapcarta.com

Berišane

Berišane is a locality in Opština Prokuplje, Toplica District, Central Serbia. Berišane is situated nearby to Rangina Mala and Donja Trnava.

mapcarta.com

Arnautski Potok

Arnautski Potok is a stream in Serbia. Arnautski Potok is situated nearby to Paljevine and Ljutički Krst. Mapcarta, the open map.

mapcarta.com

https://mapcarta.com/13931886

Ljuša

Ljuša is a village in the municipality of Kuršumlija, Serbia. Ljuša has about 68 residents. Mapcarta, the open map.

mapcarta.com

Djake

Đake is a village in the municipality of Kuršumlija, Serbia. Djake has about 25 residents. Mapcarta, the open map.

mapcarta.com

Arbanaško Brdo

Arbanaško Hill is a hill in Serbia and is close to Pećanci, Staro Selo Dedinac and Petrovići. Arbanaško Brdo has an elevation of 601 metres.

mapcarta.com

There are names for rivers and mountains that are still there named after Albanians.

Interesting how you insist these toponyms on the map are Vlach or Slavic when in fact it is confirmed they were inhabited by Albanians as shown by 15th and 16th registers even. Weird how this territory is not demographically dominated nor by Vlachs nor by Slavs but by Albanian also. The toponyms are a mix of Albanian and Slavic.

I know that Berisha is a tribe from North Albania and I'm not suggesting their name is actually Slavic, although it does sound very Slavic and could be interpreted as a variant of the name Berislav or Berivoj. You have a similar variant of the name Budislav/Budivoj/Budimir which is Budisa. The only toponyms that can be related to the Albanians with certainty are those involving the name of the Arbanas(h) but not Arnaut for example because the latter is also a nickname for a stubborn man. But it is mostly distributed over a territory with a significant Albanian population in southern Serbia and Montenegro, so I guess it does relate to Albanians.

Kastrat and Djake are clearly Albanian. I guess Ljusha, too. But it's not easy to distinguish between Albanian and Slavic settlements. Same goes for the etymologies of the toponyms. Albanian has plenty of Slavic loanwords, especially in the field of agriculture, because the Albanians used to be semi-nomadic pastoralists. So a Slavic place name doesn't necessary mean it used to be inhabitated by Slavs before the Albanian settled in but may go back to a simple loanword.

 

[lynxbythetv]

You are mudding things. Besa means pledge of honor, you are confusing it with the blood feud, as besa has little to do with "promise of death". Its root is "besim" trust/faith/believe.

Gaelic Bas on the other hand has nothing to do with these roots, rather it means:

bereavement » Bás
death » Bás
decease » bás
demise » Bás
dying » Bás
passing » Bás
passing away » Bás

Just like Slavic languages can share common roots with Sanskrit, Albanian can shares common roots with Icelandic. That's the whole point of the IE language family. Being in ones own branch has nothing to do with this, it just means that there are no other languages within the same family of languages (ie Latin: Italian, Spanish, French etc, or Slavic: Most of Eastern Europe).

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abg0818

Isn't that the case with all IE languages, things get a bit muddied. Besa and Basim might mean a promise/pledge/honour in current Albanian but it did not originally mean that infact Albania being a Clannish people promises might have some sinister undertones if they are not kept. Actually it fits in with Basileus. There does not seem to be a Greek meaning for the word only speculation and yet Basil means deadly in Goedelic.

I'm going to have a look and see what Irish terms correlate with fath, honour, pledge etc.

 

[lynxbythetv]

The Albanian language originated in the Central Balkans from the Dardani and not on the adriatic coast, it has Thracian/Dacian influence. Michel De Vaan and Matzingers theories are the most plausible for where Albanian originated as of now. Though some of its speakers also migrated there on the coast at one point which is how the whole name Albanoi / Arbanon was probably picked up.

Thracian & Dacian exist as a handful of words how has De Vaan and Matzinger drawn conclusions from this. I've been listening to Albanians on Youtube, there's a Gallic ring to your language. Is there a set of toponyms or cognates that solidify these theories.

Yes there's root terms in Celtic, Germanic, Iranic and Slavic that are very similar but we know the Slabs had not introduced themselves at that stage so its either one of the other two. Albanian has an odd resemblance to Goedelic that's all.

I need to look into Matzinger, I think he's wrong.

 

[lynxbythetv]

What is the actual meaning of "gheg" aside from an ethnic designation.

 

[epirus1000]

What is the actual meaning of "gheg" aside from an ethnic designation.

One of the Albanian writers of the 19th century had supposed that it is probably related to giants/gigante, as they are mentioned in Homer writings "Behind the Ceraunian Mountains, the giants live there".
Additionally, there are several medieval Albanian surnames, some related to catholic names, and some very original Albanian like
Gjin (Gin), Gjon (John), Gjike, Gjoke, Gjeke, with this very used g/dj letter in the names/surnames.
You can find Djinic, Ginopoulous, Djinevski, Djindjic, Gjinollari and many other variants from the Gjin (Gin) alone in the region, not mentioning the other Djokovic and many many others.
Still, in some well-preserved Albanian areas like in Puke/Miredite region, there are still many old names/surnames used since pre-medieval or medieval areas of same consonant with a single vowel in between, like Dod, Ded, Bib, Geg, Pep, Pop, or with a slight addition of the R letter like in Gjergj and Zorz.