Which is more European ? Finno-ugric languages or Indo-European languages?

[MOESAN]

concerning Hungarians (Magyars) and their DNA, it's necessary to say they stayed a long time between Urals and Central Europe, migrating slowly and incorporating a lot of their neigbouring populations, Turkic ones for the most but not only - their first genetic componentS would have been the same than the steppic part of I-Eans and pre-I-ans before crossings with partly 'mongoloid' tribes during their genesis (when I suppose their well determined hungarian features individualized themselves breaking partly from their ancestral Finno-Ugric << Uralic language, before their travel westwards) - during their way towards Europe they returned almost completely to an East- and Central- European admixture - the Turkic accretions were for the most South Steppic turkicized people - in Europe they 'magyarized' previous populations what makes their today final admixture -
&: the number of people doesn' t correspond to the number of basic components, numerous but less numerous than all these 'IAN/-IC/-ISH-names' could suggest, for a lot of them shared a lot of component since long ago

nos vad deoc'h

 

[Ike]

The numbers show, that there are much more IE speakers in Asia than in Europe. Numbers are stubborn things.

Today's numbers. Which means nothing.
For example, many North Americans speak IE today, but it says nothing about the history of IE languages.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uralic_languages

Unlike the IE languages (spoken originally by R1b asians) the Uralic languages especially finno-ugric languages appeared in Europe. Deal with it!

It seems like you think European origin gives it some kind of superiority over the Asian?

Read only the books of modern (after 2000) academic linguists. All of them consider the possible origin of Finno-ugric languages between the Ural and Baltic Sea.

Wrong. Finno-Ugric languages were born in North Eastern Europe, as I stated in my previous post. There are no modern linguist scientist who think it otherwise. However IE languages came from Asia , where r1a was born. Western europeans are not descendants of IE speakers. Have you ever heard of language shift, dealer-language or lingua franca?

So, a possibility from one post becomes the certainty in another?

I did not open racist thread. It was about average pigmentation, which is part of physical anthropology. Do you think that physical anthropology is a racist science?

It's just disturbing that you're getting mad about the possibility of it not being European

 

[LeBrok]

The numbers show, that there are much more IE speakers in Asia than in Europe. Numbers are stubborn things.

In case you didn't notice nobody argues otherwise. You also didn't notice that people don't care which one is more European. We are just surprised that someone cares and ask such question. Actually more interesting would be to know "What is a reason behind someone asking such question?" Insecurity?

 

[Stears555]

Today's numbers. Which means nothing.
For example, many North Americans speak IE today, but it says nothing about the history of IE languages.



It seems like you think European origin gives it some kind of superiority over the Asian?





So, a possibility from one post becomes the certainty in another?



It's just disturbing that you're getting mad about the possibility of it not being European

Historically India pakistan and Persia combined was always more numerous than Europe in most of the history.

"of it not being European " As far as I know orthodox balkan slavs have not very european DNA. Forexample middle eastern and african haplogroups, and your culture is not western. Have a nice day!

 

[gyms]

concerning Hungarians (Magyars) and their DNA, it's necessary to say they stayed a long time between Urals and Central Europe, migrating slowly and incorporating a lot of their neigbouring populations, Turkic ones for the most but not only - their first genetic componentS would have been the same than the steppic part of I-Eans and pre-I-ans before crossings with partly 'mongoloid' tribes during their genesis (when I suppose their well determined hungarian features individualized themselves breaking partly from their ancestral Finno-Ugric << Uralic language, before their travel westwards) - during their way towards Europe they returned almost completely to an East- and Central- European admixture - the Turkic accretions were for the most South Steppic turkicized people - in Europe they 'magyarized' previous populations what makes their today final admixture -
&: the number of people doesn' t correspond to the number of basic components, numerous but less numerous than all these 'IAN/-IC/-ISH-names' could suggest, for a lot of them shared a lot of component since long ago

nos vad deoc'h

Thi is not the case.According to the most recent archaeological researches,"The chronology of the nds from the southern Urals and the Dnieper region suggests a relatively rapidmigration of the ancient Hungarians no earlier than the beginning of the 9th century, as was earlier suggested by Soviet-Russian and Ukrainian research.http://www.academia.edu/1899093/The_new_archaeological_research_designed_for_early_Hungarian_history

 

[koni]

Thanks gyms, I mean Finno-Ugric languages, but to recognize a racist post, it is not necessary to be a linguist, "What is more European ...?". Why a Hungarian speaker needs the most important European language at the moment; the language we are communicating right now, which is the English language.

 

[Stears555]

I've heard all kinds of silly things that aren't true. If Uralic languages originated in northeastern Europe, why are the oldest forms of Uralic in Siberia? And how does that fit with the arc of N1c ancestry appearing to move from China across Siberia then into Russia and Scandinavia?

The suppositional relation between finno-ugric and Samoyedic languages called as "URALIC language" hypotesis. However the existence of Uralic languages is not generally accepted by scholars. Perhaps Samoyedic languages were born in asia , but Finno-Ugric languages were born in Europe.

 

[MOESAN]

Thi is not the case.According to the most recent archaeological researches,"The chronology of the nds from the southern Urals and the Dnieper region suggests a relatively rapidmigration of the ancient Hungarians no earlier than the beginning of the 9th century, as was earlier suggested by Soviet-Russian and Ukrainian research.http://www.academia.edu/1899093/The_new_archaeological_research_designed_for_early_Hungarian_history

Thanks
I 'll read it carefully - some older studies pretended they were on way before that and had in their archeologic material things which were not typically Ugric -
all the way, they mixed with other ethnies in some part I think

 

[Ike]

Historically India pakistan and Persia combined was always more numerous than Europe in most of the history.

How do you know the population of India and Europe at the time of PIE language?

"of it not being European " As far as I know orthodox balkan slavs have not very european DNA. Forexample middle eastern and african haplogroups, and your culture is not western. Have a nice day!

Yeah, and this is PERFECT answer to my question if you're getting mad about the possibility of Hungarian not being native European language. You got MAAAAD ))

 

[Stears555]

How do you know the population of India and Europe at the time of PIE language?



Yeah, and this is PERFECT answer to my question if you're getting mad about the possibility of Hungarian not being native European language. You got MAAAAD ))

You are unable to deal with the historic reality that Aryan theory collapsed (a nazi theory), and it was spread of a lingua-franca a deal language, and most of the ancestors Western Europeans did not speak it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo-Europeans

You are unable to deal with the historic reality , that IE languages have no European origin
Deal with it, and calm down.

 

[koni]

You are unable to deal with the historic reality that Aryan theory collapsed (a nazi theory), and it was spread of a lingua-franca a deal language, and most of the ancestors Western Europeans did not speak it.

You are unable to deal with the historic reality , that IE languages have no European origin
Deal with it, and calm down.

YES! All IE languages came from Iberia, and Hungarian from Siberia that is another way to say the same thing. I'll explain you, in other words, what I mean is that, during the last Ice Age Siberian people have sheltered in the Iberian Peninsula that is why they have similar names because all linguistic coincidences have an explanation. Or, if you cannot explain then you don't know where you are from. Hungarian have a lack in their historical origin and that is why you need claim THE MOST EUROPEAN LANGUAGE.

 

[Stears555]

YES! All IE languages came from Iberia, and Hungarian from Siberia that is another way to say the same thing. I'll explain you, in other words, what I mean is that, during the last Ice Age Siberian people have sheltered in the Iberian Peninsula that is why they have similar names because all linguistic coincidences have an explanation. Or, if you cannot explain then you don't know where you are from. Hungarian have a lack in their historical origin and that is why you need claim THE MOST EUROPEAN LANGUAGE.

Wrong. IE languages came from Iran asia. Finno-Ugric languages came from N-E Europe. Deal with it!
Ancestors of Western Europeans did not speak IE languages! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo-Europeans

 

[Angela]

Neither is more European than the other. European is a general term when talking about genetics. Extremes within Europe like Greeks, Sardinians, and Lithuanians are very separate. Overall Greeks are closer to modern west Asians than to far northern Europeans. European can generally be defined as near eastern ancestry from Europe's first farmers, WHG ancestry from Mesolithic Europeans, and maybe ANE ancestry from Mesolithic Europeans. Most Europeans fall within the extremes in a very closely related cluster. Europe should be treated as a region of Eurasia like west Asia, not a world separated from Asia by rivers of fire.

Proto-Indo Europeans probably can't be defined as west Asian or European, they were themselves. If they lacked WHG that makes them really separate from Europeans and if their near eastern-WHG-ANE ancestry came from mostly the same source as Europeans that makes them closely connected to the Europeans who were contemporary to them. All we can say is that they were west Eurasian(ANE, WHG, ENF).

Uralic languages I've heard originated in a mostly ENA people in Siberia, so not really European or even west Eurasian at all.

What a sensible comment.

 

[Stears555]

Fire Haired confuses the Uralic (wider term) with the Finno-ugric Term (narrower group) That's all.

 

[koni]

Wrong. IE languages came from Iran asia. Finno-Ugric languages came from N-E Europe. Deal with it!
Ancestors of Western Europeans did not speak IE languages!

Yes. As I have said N-E Europe is located in Siberia. And, if you know that Lusitanian language is the proto-Indo-European language spoken northern Portugal while at south you find the Koni language wrongly named Tartessian as the proto-Semtic language. None of the existing proto-Indo-Europeans language origin theories can explain, for instance, the common origin of the river names Tagus, Portugal, Tigres, Italy and Tigres Middle East as the Arrábida Paradim do it, rationally. Deal with it.

 

[Stears555]

Yes. As I have said N-E Europe is located in Siberia. And, if you know that Lusitanian language is the proto-Indo-European language spoken northern Portugal while at south you find the Koni language wrongly named Tartessian as the proto-Semtic language. None of the existing proto-Indo-Europeans language origin theories can explain, for instance, the common origin of the river names Tagus, Portugal, Tigres, Italy and Tigres Middle East as the Arrábida Paradim do it, rationally. Deal with it.

Lusitanian language is not proto IE. Again: he confused the Finno-Ugric and Uralic groups. Finno-Ugric languages had N-E European roots, Uralic (forexample: Samoyedic ) have asian roots like the IE languages.

 

[Ike]

You are unable to deal with the historic reality that Aryan theory collapsed (a nazi theory), and it was spread of a lingua-franca a deal language, and most of the ancestors Western Europeans did not speak it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo-Europeans

You are unable to deal with the historic reality , that IE languages have no European origin
Deal with it, and calm down.

No, dude, you are not able to deal with the fact that the sky is blue. Deal with it, and calm down.

 

[Stears555]

No, dude, you are not able to deal with the fact that the sky is blue. Deal with it, and calm down.

So do you believe in the outdated and debunked Aryan conquest theory of the 19th century? Neo-Nazis also still believe in that fairly tale...

 

[koni]

Lusitanian language is not proto IE. Again: he confused the Finno-Ugric and Uralic groups. Finno-Ugric languages had N-E European roots, Uralic (forexample: Samoyedic ) have asian roots like the IE languages.

What can I say If you don't know even the origin of the word Europa but the Arrábida Paradim can show you that Europa comes from the word Arabi the same three letters A, R and B meaning respectively - A, mountain R(á) Sun (direction of) and Bi (two) plus the Latin ending 'da' - that is the two mountains in the direction of the sun. And also it stands for the Arabian Peninsula. In other words, the Portuguese -Arrábida mountain range is at the same time the origin of the Arabs a European. Do you understand it? Portuguese language can explain even the Hungarian language, where you are from because megalithic people here in the Iberian Mesopotamia made kind a Neolithic GPS (Global Position System). You can see it on the Almentres Chromelech Megalithic site. About the three letters A, R, and B or word Arabi you can easily verify the relation with Europe in the site Behindthename jotting down the word Arabi and click search bottom.You will bet something like

"The name Arabi was not found. Names that sound similar to Arabi:
EUROPA f Greek Mythology (Latinized)
EUROPE f Greek Mythology"

DEAL WITH IT.If you can

 

[Ike]

So do you believe in the outdated and debunked Aryan conquest theory of the 19th century? Neo-Nazis also still believe in that fairly tale...

So so you believe that Donald Duck brought the apple pie to his nephews without consulting Daisy Duck? Neo-Nazis love apple pie...