Who were the Thracians?

The Illyrians inhabited a territory that stretched from Slovenia to the north, encompassing much of what is Croatia, Bosnia, Herzegovina, all thewaydown to Albania in the south. The vast majority of the Illyrians would have been I2a in my opinion, of the same variety that dominates Bosnia/Herzegovina and is found in Croatia/Serbia today. Among them settled Slavs and celts in much lower numbers.
 
E-V13 is not 20% in Albanians but almost 40%, the people with the most E-V13 in the world are Albanians, followed by Bulgarians, followed by Macedonians, Greeks(no good data, but also a lot),followed by Serbs. Bulgarians have more E-V13 then everybody in the Balkan, except ofc Albanians. Greeks have peaks , but it is not important we should look at the whole country. Also if Indo European Bulgarians are E-V13 a lot, how come Indo European Thrachians their ancestors are not. E-V13,R-L23 and J2b2 are Balkan and local. R1a is not local, and it is not Thrachian. E-V13 is Balkan group, for the last 7000 years all civilization in the Balkan is full with a lot of E-V13 and R-L23 :)
 
Pakis and Arabs are not R1a, R1a simply infiltrated Europe, advancing from the eastern Russian/Ukrainian plains towards Central Europe, they made a mirror movement towards the east, affecting 35% of eastern Iranians, 60% in Afghanistan,Pakistan,India,Tajikistan,Turkmenistan,Uzbekistan etc. they affected many central Asian countries in an eastern movement.
 
maybe u r on to something, lets say Slavic is born when I2a Ilyrians mix with North east tribes which are R1a-M458 and R1a-Z280. In order for a civilization to exist it needs to be minimum 3 different things mostly more
 
Yes, J2b, E-V13 and R-L23 originated in the Balkans, E-V13 is not found In a "total" of 40% of Albanians, maybe in certain regions, but greek shave the most E3b in all Europe at 30-35%.
 
U mistake R1a-M458 and R1a-Z280 with R1a, u should know it is not the same and R1a some groups are Arab and Paki,
 
I have not even seen a good sample of Greeks. They do not have that much E-V13 at all, before there was a rumor that Italians also have it a lot and they do not, and if they have it it is from Balkan soldiers or Arabesh mostly I guess :)
People make propaganda that E-V13 is not European, yet 98% of the E-V13 are Europeans, people make propagnda it is not Indo European yet majority of the carriers are Indo Europeans, people lie it is from the middle East yet with the exception of the Druze it is not seen there :)
 
I'm not mistaking it, Yan....I simply didn't specify which subclade of R1a I was speaking of....
 
adamo said:
E3b reaches its highest European frequencies in central/southern Greece, where as many as 35-25% of men are E3b. 20% of Albanians and Serbians are also E3b, frequencies are slightly lower in Bulgaria and even less in Romania. The Thracians where not E3b. I do like Yaan's comment about R1b L-23; which is linked to parts of Greece and turkey/Armenia where it is found near the Caucasus at highest frequencies; maybe some thracians had R-L23. Many where probably I2a or even maybe R1a, as the Thracians where an indigenous Balkans group not unlike Romania's Dacians.
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I think that in Greece samples were not big and maybe it will be different situation when we see new results. Tosk Albanians have E1b1b1a2 similar as Montenegrins (28-29%), but peak is in Geg Albanians (45,6% in Kosovo, also high in north Albania). Serbs have about 19%, similar Bulgaria probably little more, Upper Macedonians (former Yugoslav republic) something more, Bosniacs something less. And Romanians have in significant percentage. It is important haplogroup for Balkans and expanded across the Balkans from the Middle East.
 
I'm very well aware E-V13 is predominantly found in Europeans; there are good studies on E3b in Greece, frequencies can go as high as 35% in central/southern regions. Such high European frequencies can only be matched in Altamura Italy (32%) and in parts of Iberia or Albania, PARTS, which does not define a "national" level.
 
U should always specify coz they are totally different,R1a is not Slavic at all ,only two of it subgroups R-M458 and R-Z280 are associated with Slavs, there is also a group associated with Viking, one with Jews, one with South Arabs and the rest is Central and South Asia. They have nothing to do with each other, totally different people.
Also from 22% Bulgarian E 18.1 % is E-V13 so from roughly 30-35% Greek E, E-V13 is at the most 25-26% at far less then by Albos,also in crete and other islands it is really less.
 
Good study is minimum 500 samples ,most Greek studies are 30-60 people
 
Also it is important the country not a region and E-V13 is not high at all in Iberia. It is other E there, it is not big in Italy either, in Croatia and Austria should be bigger, it is Balkan and Central European marker observed also in Italy and parts of France and Britain and Eastern Europe :)
 
Yaan said:
Yes I can not understand how this forum allows people to give negative points for whatever they want . I guess I should start giving negative points to Albanian and Western European comments, just like this? Ofc not I am a man :)
I want moderators to check who is giving me negative points and give them warning and negative points. I demand this, I have insulted nobody and propaganda of West Balkan nationalists or West European R1b supermacist insults me
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No, no. I quoted Garrick I think. You are safe :) No negative points on you.

Nobody1 said:
E-V13 is a sub-clade of E-M78;
In fact E-V13 is one of the confirmed Neolithic Hg's (along with G2a and I2a1) of Europe;
In 2011 E-V13 was found at a Neolithic site [5th mil. BC] as far west as Spain;

Lacan et al 2011 - Neolithic Spain
http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2011/10/24/1113061108.full.pdf+html


E-V13 being in Neolithic Europe and that far spread;
Def. means it was already in Balkans before the emergence of the Indo-European Thracians;
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As I understand, there were found four G2 , one E-M35, and one E-V13. They could have easily transported there with ships from Levant. Tthe location of the sample could also be indicative of pedestrian group crossing Gibraltar. It's not good enough for me, yet. They'd have to find +5000 BC of E-V13 in the Alps and +6000 BC in Balkans for that theory to be plausible.


Yaan said:
E E-V13,R-L23 and J2b2 are Balkan and local. R1a is not local, and it is not Thrachian. E-V13 is Balkan group, for the last 7000 years all civilization in the Balkan is full with a lot of E-V13 and R-L23 :)
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Not according to Klysov. He places R1a as oldest in Balkans, back to 10 kya.
 
Ike said:
As I understand, there were found four G2 , one E-M35, and one E-V13. They could have easily transported there with ships from Levant. Tthe location of the sample could also be indicative of pedestrian group crossing Gibraltar. It's not good enough for me, yet. They'd have to find +5000 BC of E-V13 in the Alps and +6000 BC in Balkans for that theory to be plausible.
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Thats for sure;
The more data the better and more precise the reconstruction;
But these 2 studies are good starters and also reveal a lot; But more must follow;
 
Ike said:
I've read the article. It says that Albanian language didn't change for last 12.000 years, and that it was spoken in Egypt, but it also says it was IE language. How do we reconcile these two?

BTW someone is giving you negative points for this, and that is really lame. This is argumentative conversation, and that behavior indicates political propaganda without critical thinking.
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I give Albanians sources. I said it is a complex matter and simplifications are not good, but this is Internet and it is impossible that someone writes always widely and detailed. Albanian language is placed in Indo-European languages, it is a branch by itself. And in this language there are influences of Afro-Asiatic languages, and it is logical.

Everyone has the right to evaluate what she or he thinks. This is a forum and people have different views and it is natural.
 
Yaan said:
Yes I can not understand how this forum allows people to give negative points for whatever they want . I guess I should start giving negative points to Albanian and Western European comments, just like this? Ofc not I am a man :)
I want moderators to check who is giving me negative points and give them warning and negative points. I demand this, I have insulted nobody and propaganda of West Balkan nationalists or West European R1b supermacist insults me
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Click "Settings" at the top right, and scroll down to "Latest Reputation Received." What do you see?
 
We all know that Yaan, E-M81 is prevalent in north-western Africa and Iberia (it and it's subclades) and low trace frequencies as well in Siclily, and E-M78 (northeastern Africa) has subclades in the Middle East and Greece/Balkans and southern Italy as well; I've said it many times, Yaan.
 
In Croatia and Austria the overall E-V13 frequencies are "higher"? As a whole E3b must only affect,what? 10% of men in both those nations?
 
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