Y-DNA haplogroups of ancient civilizations

I'm R-L21 and my family is of Portuguese descent, do you know how this could be possible?
 
Dear Maciamo,

Thank you for the very instructive post. I have question. How do you explain the origin of Bulgarians /Thracians. There are some more articles on the matter (I can not yet post them since I don;t have 10 posts).

There is a theory stating that the Thracians (Pelasgans, Troyans etc) are the original population of the Balkans and their migrations are caused by the Black Sea flood (about 6500 BC).
 
Here is some copy paste:
The approximate distribution of Y-DNA haplogroups among the Bulgarian people runs as follows:
16% E1b1b
1% G2a
3% I1
20% I2a (very common among South Slavic peoples)
1% I2b
20% J2
1% Q
18% R1a
18% R1b
1% T
Here are mtDNA haplogroups found among Bulgarians:
38% H (of which 10% are in the subclades H1 and H3 combined)
10% J
6.5% T
20% U (of which 10% are in U3, 6.5% in U4, and 3.5% in U5)
13% K
6% X2
6.5% other haplogroups
 
Hi

Here is some copy paste:
The approximate distribution of Y-DNA haplogroups among the Bulgarian people runs as follows:
16% E1b1b
1% G2a
3% I1
20% I2a (very common among South Slavic peoples)
1% I2b
20% J2
1% Q
18% R1a
18% R1b
1% T
Here are mtDNA haplogroups found among Bulgarians:
38% H (of which 10% are in the subclades H1 and H3 combined)
10% J
6.5% T
20% U (of which 10% are in U3, 6.5% in U4, and 3.5% in U5)
13% K
6% X2
6.5% other haplogroups
Ur data is really obsolete, there is now a big research based on 808 unrelated Bulgarians from all over the country- http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0056779
URL]

Eupedia is also updated :) http://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml
22% E1b1b
5% G2a
4.5% I1
20% I2a (very common among South Slavic peoples)
1.5% I2b
10% J2
0.5% Q
18% R1a
10% R1b
1.5% T
sounds more like it :)
 
You are correct but I could not post the link.
But could you address mu question?
 
You are correct but I could not post the link.
But could you address mu question?

Well I guess Bulgarians have Thrachian, Slavic and some Bulgar,Celtic and Goth blood.
Thrachians for me were E-V13,J2b2 and R1b-L23 with some E-M123,T and R1a
Slavs were R1a and I2a with some T,J2b1 and E-V13
Bulgars were R1a and J2a4h and J2b2 with some G2a,Q and N
 
Ur data is really obsolete, there is now a big research based on 808 unrelated Bulgarians from all over the country- http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0056779

northern part of Sophia province, area around Sofia city, is the home of Serdi, Celtic tribe that got thracanized

but the area has very little Celtic R1b
Sophia province has 2.7% U152 and no other S116
and the Sofia city (earlier Serdica) has 1.7% of U152 and 3.4% of other S116

however it has, especially Sofia city area, elevated I2a-din and lowered E-V13 compared to nation average......of course part of this I2a-din may be due to modern Serbs, that are just across the border...but just across the border were also E-V13 Dardanians

in any case this seems to support my theory that some of the Balkan Celts such as Serdi and Scordisci were probably not really R1b celtic but probably more I2a-din celtic... i believe that i2a-din was Celtic prior to becomming Slavic and in that respect Serdi may be the origin of modern Serbs....


idea is that like free Dacians, also free Thracians went to north, in accordance with Russian primary chronicle that speaks of Danubian Slavs (and among them explicitly mentions Serbs and Croats) who moved to Vistula region due to spread of Roman empire.....

Over a long period the Slavs settled beside the Danube, where the Hungarian and Bulgarian lands now lie. From among these Slavs, parties scattered throughout the country and were known by appropriate names, according to the places where they settled. Thus some came and settled by the river Morava, and were named Moravians, while others were called Czechs. Among these same Slavs are included the White Croats, the Serbs, and the Carinthians. For when the Vlakhs attacked the Danubian Slavs, settled among them, and did them violence, the latter came and made their homes by the Vistula, and were then called Lyakhs. O

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primary_Chronicle
http://www.utoronto.ca/elul/English/218/PVL-selections.pdf

Within these rivers lies Dacia, encircled by the lofty Alps as by a crown. Near their left ridge, which inclines toward the north, and beginning at the source of the Vistula, the populous race of the Venethi dwell, occupying a great expanse of land. Though their names are now dispersed amid various clans and places, yet they are chiefly called Sclaveni and Antes.
http://people.ucalgary.ca/~vandersp/Courses/texts/jordgeti.html




since Dacians and Thracians were of same Venethi race (R1a people in my opinion with exception of I2a-din Serdi and Carpi), I think they made new tribal name "free Venethi" or Slobodni Venethi
which was abbreviated with Slo-Veneti... the core of this tribe was surrounded with its border tribes Venedi and Anti (both names derived from words having meaning turn, end, border...first one in PIE, second one in iranian)


483px-Slavic_peoples_6th_century_historical_map.jpg


http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/28516-Serbs-and-Croats-origin-from-Germanic-Scirii-and-Hirri


when thinking of Thracians in context of haplogroups above keep in mind that after Dacia and Thrace fall under Roman empire and some people left to north in order to stay free, the areas were also settled with people from other parts of Roman empire and influence areas of Greek tribes from south Thrace did enlarge...
 
According to the new Bulgarian study the highest frequency of I2a-Din is in north- eastern country.
 
northern part of Sophia province, area around Sofia city, is the home of Serdi, Celtic tribe that got thracanized

but the area has very little Celtic R1b
Sophia province has 2.7% U152 and no other S116
and the Sofia city (earlier Serdica) has 1.7% of U152 and 3.4% of other S116

however it has, especially Sofia city area, elevated I2a-din and lowered E-V13 compared to nation average......of course part of this I2a-din may be due to modern Serbs, that are just across the border...but just across the border were also E-V13 Dardanians

in any case this seems to support my theory that some of the Balkan Celts such as Serdi and Scordisci were probably not really R1b celtic but probably more I2a-din celtic... i believe that i2a-din was Celtic prior to becomming Slavic and in that respect Serdi may be the origin of modern Serbs....


idea is that like free Dacians, also free Thracians went to north, in accordance with Russian primary chronicle that speaks of Danubian Slavs (and among them explicitly mentions Serbs and Croats) who moved to Vistula region due to spread of Roman empire.....



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primary_Chronicle
http://www.utoronto.ca/elul/English/218/PVL-selections.pdf


http://people.ucalgary.ca/~vandersp/Courses/texts/jordgeti.html




since Dacians and Thracians were of same Venethi race (R1a people in my opinion with exception of I2a-din Serdi and Carpi), I think they made new tribal name "free Venethi" or Slobodni Venethi
which was abbreviated with Slo-Veneti... the core of this tribe was surrounded with its border tribes Venedi and Anti (both names derived from words having meaning turn, end, border...first one in PIE, second one in iranian)


483px-Slavic_peoples_6th_century_historical_map.jpg


http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/28516-Serbs-and-Croats-origin-from-Germanic-Scirii-and-Hirri


when thinking of Thracians in context of haplogroups above keep in mind that after Dacia and Thrace fall under Roman empire and some people left to north in order to stay free, the areas were also settled with people from other parts of Roman empire and influence areas of Greek tribes from south Thrace did enlarge...
1. People in Sofia come from all over Bulgaria
2. It is called Sofia,not Sophia
3. On the otherside of the Bulgarian Serbian border, there are no Serbs but Bulgarians, a well know fact even in Serbia
4. We have I2a din N,
5. There are probably more Bulgarians with Lebanese and Swedish blood than with Serbia(some Lebanese Christian Dads and Swedish Mom), there is no Serb minority in Bulgaria and we do not intermarry with Serbs
 
People in Eastern Bulgaria(Varna and Burgas) come originally from the Bulgarian regions of Aegean Macedonia, Aegean Thrace and European Turkey.The Bulgarians in European Turkey come originally from Central South and Aegean Macedonia is it is hard to trace.
 
Greek community left Varna between 1878-1920 and was replaced by Bulgarians from North Greece and European Turkey ,so no Greeks in Varna probably a really small % stayed, but after the Balkans wars it was a huge population exchange
 
3. On the otherside of the Bulgarian Serbian border, there are no Serbs but Bulgarians, a well know fact even in Serbia


This is your opinion, and not of the people that live out there. Bulgarians were constantly trying to repress the use of Serbian language and Serbian names in those areas. Bulgarians are also infamous to ethnic related crimes during WWII and WWII ...
 
Thank you Maciamo for the nice information! Could we say anything about Dacians & Thracians? And what about Vikings?
 
Are you planning to do a map of Slavic paternal lineages at any point Maciamo?
 

This thread has been viewed 714028 times.

Back
Top