Y-DNA haplogroups of Greeks by region of origin

please cool down. may be we, the turks(?) or whatever we are, are not good in science as you mentioned before.

just to clarify: are you saying ionian greeks left the country after 1922? so the greek blood is minimal in west anatolia now?
Again I'm not claiming anything, it's a historical fact. Have you ever heard of the Greek-Turkish population ex-change of 1922?
Any way in Ionia region there should be some Greek blood, either from Ionian Greeks or from some of the Balkan Turks who settled there after the Greeks left (most of them Cretan Turks).
 
Why is that a bias ? Is R1b a superior or more desirable haplogroup than the others in your eyes ? Why do you wish to have more R1b (even 0.5% more) in your country ? Get a life !
In fact it is YOU who think that R1b is a superior haplogroup (Kings and nobles of the Indo-Europeans) and E1b1b is a haplogroup that leads to lazyness and corruption. I don't give a shit if we have 5% or 95% of R1b, I just wanted your numbers to be closer to the TRUTH.
Your whole bias is revealed because you are naming R1b, I and R1a ''European'' and continiously try to lower Greek R1b and increase E1b1b and J2 so Greeks would look more Middle Eastern. If by new studies Greeks are proven to belong 50% to E1b1b and 50% to J, I would be the first to correct my results and admit it.
 
THERE IS NO GREEKS!!!

Modern Greeks are not same as ancient greeks
How do you know that? You would have to know exactly who the ancient Greeks were to compare them with modern Greeks to prove your statement. But you don't even know who your ancestors were (Bulgarians, Albanians, Serbs, Macedonian Greeks, Turks, Serbs?) so knowing who ancient or modern Greeks are is imposible for you.
dont know why some compare a population of mixed inhabitants and making them pure ancient people.
If any here continue with fake information it will be repost of evidence.
WHO is comparing a population of mixxed inhabitants and making them PURE ancient people. You Skopians are even less good with
Modern Greeks = Armenians, Kurds, Assyrians, Syrians, Slavs, Sub-saharans and many more.[/QUOTE]
 
DejaVu you have to start reading what the others write in order to reply with at least some credibility. I never claimed that Greeks are pure (NO modern nation is pure) I have made it perfectly clear that for me it is culture that defines ethnicity.
BTW you are really stupid if you think that Modern Greeks are everything else (Armenians, Kurds, Assyrians, Syrians, Slavs, SUB-SAHARANS [0% Sub-Saharan influence in Greece] except Greeks. Where do you think ancient Greeks have gone, to Northern Europe?
 
What do they have of individual them R?, please, the world is on the verge of bursting through the fault of them. Who has said to them that it is necessary to go so rapidly?, we are going to jump all for the airs to this step. They should learn as the Greeks and the ancient Phoenicians were doing the things, now R have put a rocket in the bottom to the world and the wick is already lit.
 
I'm not against any haplogroup or people Carlitos, I don't dislike R1b's or E1b1b's or C's or whatever. Haplogroups can only reveal human migration patterns (allthough the exact time that this migrations happened is not perfecty clear) not human behavor or personality.
 
I'm not against any haplogroup or people Carlitos, I don't dislike R1b's or E1b1b's or C's or whatever. Haplogroups can only reveal human migration patterns (allthough the exact time that this migrations happened is not perfecty clear) not human behavor or personality.

It is true, but some of them R want that it is not like that, then they have to take of their own medicine.
 
Yes, you are right...if we behaved like them we should name R1b's and I1's the haplogroups that lead to racism, superiority complex, depression and serial killers...
 
Yes, you are right...if we behaved like them we should name R1b's and I1's the haplogroups that lead to racism, superiority complex, depression and serial killers...


exact, like we say in Spain, where they give them they take them.
Donde las dan las toman.
 
Have you read any of my posts? Because Ionian Greeks were expelled from Turkey (after 1922) and they all currently live in Greece, not much left in Turkey. That's why so little E-V13 is left there, ALL Greeks have gone.
And Maciamo insists that genetical Greeks who live in Greece, speak Greek and identify as Greeks should be classified under Turkey all though not even one of them lives there now. How much more absurd can one be?

just to fix. greeks was not expelled. it was a population exchange agreement between Atatürk (turkey) and Venizelos (greece).
 
just to fix. greeks was not expelled. it was a population exchange agreement between Atatürk (turkey) and Venizelos (greece).
You are right but I use expelled for both Greeks and Turks because it wasn't something they chose to do (leave their homes) but were forced to do it...
 
No because it would be actually true...but my ancestors were also Greeks (at least part Greeks) and being classified under Turkey is an insult (Turkey as a name wasn't even in use back then, Greeks only knew of Turks=[Sultan-Muslims-Jennisaries-Enemies] and they used ancient names for their homeland like Ionia, Pontus, Kappadokia or their cities - Konstantinoupole, Smyrne, Trapezounta, Amissos, Kaisareia etc.)

It's time to learn to forget and forgive. Greece has been independent from the Ottoman Empire for nearly 180 years. The population exchange between Greece and Turkey happened 90 years ago. Any abuse that might have been committed by Turks in past centuries has nothing to do with modern Turks. If most Europeans don't hold a grudge against Germany for WWI and WWII anymore, how can you still be so xenophobic based on acts that happened hundreds of years ago ?

You seem to forget that conquering armies and people in power have always abused people throughout history, no matter where. Why is it that the Chinese can forget/forgive that their emperors killed millions of its citizens to build the Great Wall, and that Mao killed over 20 millions in living memory due to its bad policies and forced relocalisations ? People in Germany, France and the Low Countries fought bitterly with each others, often at the local level, during the Protestant Reformation. Families were torn, people massacred. Thousands of Spaniards were tortured or executed by the Spanish Inquisition sponsored by their own rulers. Don't believe one moment that Greeks have suffered more than everyone else, or that Turks were worse than other rulers. I am sure that Russian peasants were worse off under the Tsarist rule at any time in history.

Besides, as LeBrok mentioned, the actual Turks who invaded the old Byzatine Empire and became the new ruling class was an ethnic minority and their descendants, as Y-DNA showed, are still a minority among the people of Anatolia. You associate too readily names with people. Turk has two clearly distinct meanings : 1) person of Central Asian descent related to the Mongols, who became the ruling class of the Ottoman Empire ; 2) citizens of the modern state of Turkey, mostly of Anatolian descent.

Why is it that you hold this kind of weird hereditary grudge against a whole nation of 70 million people for acts committed by a small minority in a distant past, when the rest of the world is moving on ? This is plain and simple xenophobia, if not racism.
 
You are right but I use expelled for both Greeks and Turks because it wasn't something they chose to do (leave their homes) but were forced to do it...

The population exchange of 1923 between Greece and Turkey was a political decision made by the elected representatives of two democratic nations. How is it that I am explaining the functioning of democracy to a Greek ? If you have a problem with that complain to your government. Ordinary Turks have nothing to do with that.
 
just to fix. greeks was not expelled. it was a population exchange agreement between Atatürk (turkey) and Venizelos (greece).

except the polis 1953-54
I know cause my father study dentist at Istambul Univesrity, and play ball for Galata serai football club

and the cyprus case of 1974

And macciamo cyprus is not 90 years before its 36 years before 1 generation time,
 
dont you think these two parts contradictary with each other.

if there is no mix in 600 years why there will be a difference in the genetic background.

Sorry I don't understand what you are trying to say... different between who? Ionians greeks and turks? or Ionians greeks and other greeks?
 
Why is it that you hold this kind of weird hereditary grudge against a whole nation of 70 million people for acts committed by a small minority in a distant past, when the rest of the world is moving on ? This is plain and simple xenophobia, if not racism.

Except the greek genocide was 100 years ago not 700. The progrom of constantinople happened in the 50's supported by the british, the cyprus issue, the threats of war if greece ever impliments its 12 km water boarder that it has the right to do, or the turkish war planes that fly over greek islands almost daily. Maciamo please you really think this dislike is because of what happened 700 years ago? do you see greeks hating people from venice because of the 4th crusade? no! So droped this snotty attitude of calling others xenpphobic and racist and do some research on why bad ralations exist and come down from your high horse.

Here is an incident and comments that the turkish president said while going to the occupide norhern region of Cyprus;

http://www.cyprusupdates.com/2011/0...or-turkish-invasion-anniversary-celebrations/

He also said that if Cyprus assumes the E.U. presidency in 2012 he wil cut all ties with the E.U. This is just a bluff, but this showcases the kind of child this man is, and how the AKP party is taking Turkey down a scary path.
 
It's time to learn to forget and forgive. Greece has been independent from the Ottoman Empire for nearly 180 years. The population exchange between Greece and Turkey happened 90 years ago. Any abuse that might have been committed by Turks in past centuries has nothing to do with modern Turks. If most Europeans don't hold a grudge against Germany for WWI and WWII anymore, how can you still be so xenophobic based on acts that happened hundreds of years ago ?

You seem to forget that conquering armies and people in power have always abused people throughout history, no matter where. Why is it that the Chinese can forget/forgive that their emperors killed millions of its citizens to build the Great Wall, and that Mao killed over 20 millions in living memory due to its bad policies and forced relocalisations ? People in Germany, France and the Low Countries fought bitterly with each others, often at the local level, during the Protestant Reformation. Families were torn, people massacred. Thousands of Spaniards were tortured or executed by the Spanish Inquisition sponsored by their own rulers. Don't believe one moment that Greeks have suffered more than everyone else, or that Turks were worse than other rulers. I am sure that Russian peasants were worse off under the Tsarist rule at any time in history.

Besides, as LeBrok mentioned, the actual Turks who invaded the old Byzatine Empire and became the new ruling class was an ethnic minority and their descendants, as Y-DNA showed, are still a minority among the people of Anatolia. You associate too readily names with people. Turk has two clearly distinct meanings : 1) person of Central Asian descent related to the Mongols, who became the ruling class of the Ottoman Empire ; 2) citizens of the modern state of Turkey, mostly of Anatolian descent.

Why is it that you hold this kind of weird hereditary grudge against a whole nation of 70 million people for acts committed by a small minority in a distant past, when the rest of the world is moving on ? This is plain and simple xenophobia, if not racism.

As a Greek, I fully agree with your point of view. I have numerous friends in Turkey, they are great people and cannot be blamed for whatever happened before they were born. However, it is important to understand that it is not always easy to "bury the hatchet" when your old "enemy" still violates your FIR on a daily basis and publicly rejects your lawful internationally recognised borders even to this date.
When reviewing the situation from the comfort of W.Europe /N.America surrounded by "friendly" nations, it is easy to get carried away and become a little patronising, treating other's sensitivities in a dismissive way. It can be quite different when you live in the "hotzone" and you see your neighbour talking about ownership of the place your family has lived in for countless generations or about "ancient Turkish philosophers"...
I am sure you have read in the international press that only a few months ago a scandal broke out in Turkey when it was revealed that their army had a plan to destabilise the country and overthrow the Government, a plan that include the invasion of a number of Greek (hence EU!) islands. Operation 'Sledgehammer" was the code name, look it up.
I am all for calm and reconciliation but it takes good spirit from both sides, and the current status does not help.

Now, back to the subject:

So far I have tested positive for R1b (R-M269), awaiting my deep clade test results from FTDNA. My paternal origin is from a place at the Arcadia - Laconia border in the Peloponisos region. An interesting finding was the rather unusual value DYS393=11. If anyone has any information on the frequency of this particular marker in R1b individuals from Greece to send me, I would appreciate it. Thx.

Best,
E.
 
Greek language.

Well teach us the turkish language while you are at it. Just ask your baba if you need help. Oh here i will start it for you.

Here is your continuity

TURKISH ENGLISH GREEK
det Custom Adeti
Afaroz Excommunicate Aforismos
Aga Land owner Agas
Ahmak Idiot Ahmakis
Ahtapot Octopus Htapodi
Alan Area, ground Alana
Alarga Open sea, distant Alarga
Aman For mercy's sake Aman
Anadolu Anatolia (East in Greek) Anatoli
Ananas Pineapple Ananas
Anason Aniseed Anithos
Anfora Anchor Amphoreus
Angarya Forced labor Angaria
Aptal Stupid Abdalis
Apukurya Carnival Apokria
Arap Negro, bogyman Arapis
Arnavut Albanian Arnautis
Asik Someone in love Asikis
Atlet Athlete Athlitis
Avanak Gullible, stupid Avanakis
Ayran A drink Ariani
Baba - Father - Babas
Baca - Chimney - Batzias
Bacak - Leg, leg of trousers in G.- Batzaki
Bacanak - Brother in law - Batjanakis
Baglama - A string instrument - Baglamas
Bahce - Garden - Bahtses
Bahsis - Tip - Baxisi
Bakir - Copper - Bakiri
Bakkal - Grocer - Bakkalis
Baklava - Baklava - Baklavas
Balta - Ax - Baltas
Bamya - Okra - Bamia
Barbunya - A fish - Barbunia
Barut - Gunpowder - Baruti
Battaniye - Woolen Blanket - Batania
Batakci - Swindler - Bataxis
Bayrak - Flag - Bairaki
Bekar - Batchelor - Bekiaris
Bekri - Drunk - Bekris
Bela - Trouble - Belas
Benzin - Petrol, gas - Benzina
Bereket - Abundance, plenty - Bereket
Beton - Concrete - Beton
Bey - Mr. - Beis
Bezelye - Pea - Bizeli
Biber - Pepper - Piperi
Biftek - Steak - Bifteki
Bodrum - Cellar, dungeon - Boudroumi
Bomba - Bomb - Bomba
Bostan - Vegetable field, garden - Bostani
Bora - Storm - Bora
Boya - Paint - Bogia
Borek - Pastry, pie - Boureki
Bre - Hi, you - Vre
Budala - Idiot - Boudalas
Bulgur - Boiled wheat - Bligouri
But - Thigh - Bouti
Buz - Ice, very cold - Bouzi
Buzuki - Bouzouki - Bouzouki
Cacik - A drink with cucumbers- Tzatziki
Caka - Swagger, vanity - Tsaka
Cam - Window pane - Tzami
Cami - Mosque - Tzami
Cambaz - Acrobat, dealer in G.- Tzambazis
Cenabet - Crabbed person - Tzanabetis
Cep - Pocket - Tsepi
Cereme - Fine or cost of damage- Tzeremes
Cezve - Coffee Pot - Tzesves
Ciger - Liver, lungs - Tziyeri
Cimbiz - Tweezers - Tsimpida
Cuce - Dwarf - Tsutzes
Cadir - Tent - Tsiantiri
Cakirkeyif - Slightly drunk - Tsakir-kefi
Cali - Thorny plant - Tsiali
Calim - Flexibility, show off - Tsalimi
Cam - Pine tree - Tsami
Canak - Shallow bowl - Tsanaki
Canta - Handbag - Tsanta
Capacul - Untidy - Tsapatulis
Capari - Weight anchor - Tsapari
Capkin - Seducer, coquettish - Tsahpinis
Capraz - Crossed - Tsaprazi
Cardak - Hut of dried branches - Tsardaki
Carsi - Market - Charsi
Carik - Rustic shoe - Tsarouhi
Catal - Fork - Tsatala
Catra Patra - Stumbling speech - Tsatra patra
Cavus- Sergeant - Tsausis
Cay - Tea - Tsai
Celebi - Pleasant man, mentor - Tselebis
Cember - Circle - Tsemperi
Cengel - Hook - Tsingeli
Ciklet - Chewing gum - Tsikla
Ciftetelli- A dance - siftetelli
Ciftlik - Large country estate - Tsifliki
Cifit - Tight in money - Tsifoutis
Cimento - Cement - Tsimento
Cinko - Zinc - Tsingos
Ciftlik - Big farm, property - Tsifliki
Cirak - Apprentice - Tsiraki
Cipura- A fish - Tsipura
Ciroz - A fish - Tsiros
Coban - Shepherd - Tsobanis
Corap - Woolen sock- Tsurapis
Corba - soup - Tsorbas
Corek - Large bun - Tsoureki
Cotra - File fish - Tsotra

Ancient GREEK and Turkish are same? Go fool somebody else who dont know your fake identity.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Populat...ece_and_Turkey
The 1923 population exchange between Greece and Turkey was based upon religious identity, and involved the Greek Orthodox citizens of Turkey and the Muslim citizens of Greece. It was a major compulsory population exchange, or agreed mutual expulsion.
The "Convention Concerning the Exchange of Greek and Turkish Populations" was signed at Lausanne, Switzerland, on the 30th January 1923, by the governments of Greece and Turkey. It involved approximately 2 million people, most of whom were forcibly made refugees and de jure denaturalized from their homelands.

The criteria for the population exchange was not excusively confined to ethnicity or mother language, but on religion as well. That is why the Karamanlides (Greek: Καραμανλήδες; Turkish: Karamanlılar), or simply Karamanlis, who were a Turkish-speaking (while they employed the Greek alphabet to write it) Greek Orthodox people of unclear origin and were deported from their native regions of Karaman and Cappadocia in Central Anatolia to Greece as well. On the other hand, Cretan Muslims who were part of the exchange were re-settled mostly on the Aegean coast of Turkey, in areas formerly inhabited by Christian Greeks. Populations of Greek descent can still be found in the Pontos, remnants of the former Greek population that converted to Islam in order to escape the persecution and later deportation. Though these two groups are of ethnic Greek descent, they speak Turkish as a mother language and are very cautious to identify themselves as Greeks, due to the hostility of the Turkish state and neighbours towards anything Greek.

1914 document showing the official figures from the 1914 population census of the Ottoman Empire. The total population (sum of all the millets) was given at 20,975,345, and the Greek population was given at 1,792,206.




And here is your Fake Greek enlightenment. The Fake Greeks.

And the Greeks?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...lbanian_origin
Greeks (of Arvanite origin)
Andreas Miaoulis
Markos Botsaris
Laskarina Bouboulina
Nikolaos Krieziotis
Xadziyiannis Mexis
Pavlos Kountouriotis - First Greek President
Kitsos Tzavelas
Georgios Kountouriotis - Prime Minister of Greece under King Otto.
Antonios Kriezis
Dimitrios Voulgaris - He was thus one of the greatest exponents of the Modern Greek Enlightenment.
Athanasios Miaoulis
Diomidis Kiriakos
Theodoros Pangalos
Petros Voulgaris
Alexandros Diomidis
Nikos Engonopoulos
Ieronymos II - Archbishop of Athens and All Greece.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_of_Greece (GERMAN)
Otto Frederick, prince of Bavaria or Othon, king of Greece (Greek: Ὄθων, ΒασιλεὺςτῆςἙλλάδος, Óthon, Vasiléfs tis Elládos; 1 June 1815 – 26 July 1867) was made the first modern King of Greece in 1832 under the Convention of London, whereby Greece became a new independent kingdom under the protection of the Great Powers (the United Kingdom, France and the Russian Empire).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ioannis_Kolettis (VLACH)
Ioannis Kolettis (Greek: ΙωάννηςΚωλέττης) (1773[citation needed] - 1847) was a Greek politician of Vlach origin who played a significant role in Greek affairs from the Greek War of Independence through the early years of the Greek Kingdom, including as Minister to France and serving twice as Prime Minister.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ioannis_Kapodistrias (Venetian)
Count Ioannis Antonios Kapodistrias (Greek: ΚόμηςΙωάννηςΑντώνιοςΚαποδίστριας – Komis Ioannis Antonios Kapodistrias, in Italian: Giovanni Capo d'Istria, Conte Capo d'Istria, and in Russian: графИоаннКаподистрия – Graf Ioann Kapodistriya) (February 11, 1776 – October 9, 1831) was a Greek diplomat of the Russian Empire and later first head of state of independent Greece.
Ioannis Kapodistrias was born in Corfu,(Κέρκυρα/Kerkyra in Greek), one of the Ionian Islands, which at the time of his birth were a possession of Venice . He studied medicine, philosophy and the law at Padua, in Italy. When he was 21 years old, in 1797, he started his medical practice as a doctor in his native island of Corfu. He was throughout his life a deeply liberal thinker and a true democrat, though born and raised as a nobleman. An ancestor of Kapodistrias' had been created a conte (count) by Charles Emmanuel II, Duke of Savoy, and the title was later (1679) inscribed in the Libro d'Oro of the Corfu nobility; the title originates from Capodistria, a city on the eastern shore of the Gulf of Venice, now Koper in Slovenia and the place of origin of Kapodistrias' family before they moved to Corfu in the 13th century where they changed their dogma from Catholic to Orthodox and they soon became hellenized. His family's name in Koper was Vitori or Vittori. His mother's family, the Gonemi, had been listed in the Libro d'Oro since 1606. In 1802 Ioannis Kapodistrias founded an important scientific and social progress organisation in Corfu, the "National Medical Association", of which he was an energetic member. In 1799, when Corfu was briefly occupied by the forces of Russia and Turkey, Kapodistrias was appointed chief medical director of the military hospital.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_Kavalliotis (Aromanian)
Theodore Kavalliotis (Greek: Θεόδωρος Αναστασίου Καβαλλιώτης, Romanian: Teodor Kavalioti, 1718 – 11 August 1789) was a Greek Orthodox priest, teacher and a figure of the Greek Enlightenment. He is also known for having drafted an Aromanian-Greek-Albanian dictionary.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigas_Feraios (Aromanian)
Rigas Feraios or Rigas Velestinlis (Greek: Ρήγας Βελεστινλής-Φεραίος, born Αντώνιος Κυριαζής, Antonios Kyriazis; also known as Κωνσταντίνος Ρήγας, Konstantinos or Constantine Rhigas; Serbian: Рига од Фере, Riga od Fere; 1757—June 13, 1798) was a Greek writer and revolutionary, an eminent figure of the Greek Enlightenment, remembered as a Greek national hero, the first victim of the uprising against the Ottoman Empire and a forerunner of the Greek War of Independence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ent_Aromanians
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arvanites

Just speak Greek and have Greek name then you belong to the ancient Greeks, easy and simple.



The first constitution of Greece 1827.
The 1st Constitution of the Greek State, in the year 1827.
??? —> 4. Provinces of Greece are all those that were taken and will be taken by weapons against the Ottoman Dynasty.
1) —> 6. Greeks are:
2) —> a. All those indigenous people of the Greek State who believe in Christ.
3) —> b. All those, believers in Christ, who under the Ottoman slavery, came or they will come to the Greek State to struggle or to reside in it.
4) —> e. All those aliens, who come and enrol as citizens.
NOTE: To become a Greek, it was enough to be a Christian!
This document proves that Greeks have a very short memory. They do not remember how the Greek State was made and also who the modern Greeks are.
Why should we Macedonians have to prove that we are Macedonians since antiquity when the Greeks do not have to prove anything for being Greeks.
The fact is that about 180 years ago anybody who was a Christian in the Greek State became a Greek automatically, why does that not bother the modern Greeks?
You see, if someone was a Jew or a Muslim or a Catholic, he/she was excluded immediately. Let us now ask ourselves what is Greek racism and were did it come from?
Just read the above document and you will know why, Greek is a manufactured ethnicity.


November issue of National Geographic year 1925. The name of the article is “History’s Greatest Trek: Tragedy Stalks Through the Near East as Greece and Turkey Exchange Two Million of Their People” By Melville Chater.
"the last-arriving Greek boys staring broadley at the last-departing Moslem boys, speech between them being impossible, since the Greeks spoke only Turkish and the Turkish spoke only Greek."
 
As you all can see there is no Greeks only adopted identity by other people who became Modern Greeks. What the modern Greeks did when exchanged the people with Turkey? Same people with other faith that was exchanged.

Conclusion: Modern Greeks are not Ancient Greeks.
 

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