Kristiina
Regular Member
- Messages
- 158
- Reaction score
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- Ethnic group
- Finnish
- mtDNA haplogroup
- I5a
Jaska, I agree with you completely when you say that language families are not spread by a single yDNA haplogroup. It can be true only in a very small language group with a small number people.
Then, I agree with you completely when you say that ”at the moment linguistic results show that Late Proto-Uralic was located in Europe, but Pre-Proto-Uralic was located in Southern Siberia.” It is all so natural when you take into account the probable origin of N1b and N1c (old nomenclature!) in West China and their post-Ice Age expansion into Europe.
I am also very excited to see your summary below:
We must remember that languages did not spread to their present areas at once, but along many consequent steps. For example Tundra Nenets spoken north of the Volga-Kama region (he original homeland of Late Proto-Uralic) did not spread right there, but in several steps:
1. From Volga-Kama to the east to Sayan Mountains (Pre-Proto-Samoyedic)
2. From Sayan Mountains to the north between Yenisei and Ob (Proto-North-Samoyedic)
3. From Lower Yenisei Valley to the west (Proto-Nenets)
4. From Lower Ob to the west (Tundra Nenets)
So, at some point, part of Uralic folks started heading back to the East.
What I do not share is this theory in which Uralic people are seen as old-fashioned Arctic blokes civilized by Indo-Europeans. I think that all language groups of the world have been winners in their heyday and all existing language families must have been important vectors of innovations and a new lifestyle at some point of the history. With this I mean that also Uralic languages must have been spread by people who had acquired the new modern cultural package and carried it to the areas of their cultural radiation. From this perspective, I really do not think that Uralic languages spread from the Arctic Tundra to southern areas, but instead, that the Uralic groups assimilated on their way many Arctic populations and adopted locally many words from these cultures. I do believe that, for example, Saami and Finnish languages contain words (as well as genes, autosomally speaking) from ancient Arctic/Subarctic Northwestern hunter gatherers but I do not think that this should be understood as if Finnic languages spread from Lapland to the Baltic rim. However, I accept fully that Altaic and Uralic languages may go back to a language of ancient Siberians that were adapted to a cold climate.
Then, I agree with you completely when you say that ”at the moment linguistic results show that Late Proto-Uralic was located in Europe, but Pre-Proto-Uralic was located in Southern Siberia.” It is all so natural when you take into account the probable origin of N1b and N1c (old nomenclature!) in West China and their post-Ice Age expansion into Europe.
I am also very excited to see your summary below:
We must remember that languages did not spread to their present areas at once, but along many consequent steps. For example Tundra Nenets spoken north of the Volga-Kama region (he original homeland of Late Proto-Uralic) did not spread right there, but in several steps:
1. From Volga-Kama to the east to Sayan Mountains (Pre-Proto-Samoyedic)
2. From Sayan Mountains to the north between Yenisei and Ob (Proto-North-Samoyedic)
3. From Lower Yenisei Valley to the west (Proto-Nenets)
4. From Lower Ob to the west (Tundra Nenets)
So, at some point, part of Uralic folks started heading back to the East.
What I do not share is this theory in which Uralic people are seen as old-fashioned Arctic blokes civilized by Indo-Europeans. I think that all language groups of the world have been winners in their heyday and all existing language families must have been important vectors of innovations and a new lifestyle at some point of the history. With this I mean that also Uralic languages must have been spread by people who had acquired the new modern cultural package and carried it to the areas of their cultural radiation. From this perspective, I really do not think that Uralic languages spread from the Arctic Tundra to southern areas, but instead, that the Uralic groups assimilated on their way many Arctic populations and adopted locally many words from these cultures. I do believe that, for example, Saami and Finnish languages contain words (as well as genes, autosomally speaking) from ancient Arctic/Subarctic Northwestern hunter gatherers but I do not think that this should be understood as if Finnic languages spread from Lapland to the Baltic rim. However, I accept fully that Altaic and Uralic languages may go back to a language of ancient Siberians that were adapted to a cold climate.