Politics Balkanian disagreements.

[LABERIA]

Another textbook of schools in Serbia. Again, the Albanians are Autochthonous, not the serbs.

 

[Ike]

Try to write correct the ethnic denomination of my nation. You know wery well that this is a a derogatory term. You know that in albanian existe a derrogatory term for serbs, but i am not using it.

I am using correct ethnic denomination. Do you suggest another one?

If you want to disccus about Albanians, you have to go to the class of 6th grade elementary of a Serbian schools to open this book of history that explains very clearly that the Albanians are Autochthonous to their lands and the Serbs have come too late.

Why are you telling me about books written 5 years ago?! Give me the evidence I asked in the previous comment? Single word? Single tombstone?

 

[Sile]

Yep it does suck.An i dont understand pro turkish?explain how please.I am posting under a false flag now.when infact im albanian from albania on work in australia An yes i dont have any time in the world for the turkish people not one bit because of the past what has happen to my people.May i ask why you have the double headed eagle with the turkish symbol on top of it?If im pro turk then dam i hate for you to go to my region lol.Im not the only albanian, boreas like myself their is many like me,anyway your name on account is of greek god of wind interesting name interesting tale.take care

In Boreas avatar the moon in that position ( a symbol of the Moon, normally appears with its horns upward ) in heraldry means hope and has nothing to do with islam/moslem

 

[LABERIA]

I am using correct ethnic denomination. Do you suggest another one?

Be serious and do not lie.
Because no one is willing to discuss with liars.

Why are you telling me about books written 5 years ago?! Give me the evidence I asked in the previous comment? Single word? Single tombstone?

Start learning the history as it is written in the books of your country. Start from the book of Serbian schools that I advised you and then go with the big things.

Edit.
Just for curiosity. You are from North or from South Serbia?

 

[Ike]

Be serious and do not lie.
Because no one is willing to discuss with liars.

So, you're starting with insults?

Start learning the history as it is written in the books of your country. Start from the book of Serbian schools that I advised you and then go with the big things.

Ok, for the 3rd time. Give me something that was written at least 500 years ago. Do you understand that? Not a Serbian book from 5 years ago, but a letter written by Skanderbeg 500 years ago. This is the last time I'm asking for it.

Edit.
Just for curiosity. You are from North or from South Serbia?

No, I'm not from Serbia.

 

[Boreas]

Yep it does suck.An i dont understand pro turkish?explain how please.I am posting under a false flag now.when infact im albanian from albania on work in australia An yes i dont have any time in the world for the turkish people not one bit because of the past what has happen to my people.May i ask why you have the double headed eagle with the turkish symbol on top of it?If im pro turk then dam i hate for you to go to my region lol.Im not the only albanian, boreas like myself their is many like me,anyway your name on account is of greek god of wind interesting name interesting tale.take care

Those words don't belongs me. They belongs another member. He was tring to accuse the other member for using fake flag. I think the guys ideas seems to Turkish for him

 

[Piro Ilir]

How can arbreshe be all tosk when most them from north albania?does not make sence.An further north.middle albania is gheg dibra is gheg.mati,all the medievil places written down are of gheg,Tosk dilect has changed alot it changed when tosks started to use greek aplhabet.As i said many times.Gheg is without doubt the oldest mother language of all dilects,An if arbrehse are tosks then how is it possiable that all the catholic albanians who went to italia were tosks,something has changed somewhere on the lines when they migrated to morea an arta then to italia..Their is far more proto albanian in gheg dilect than of both abreshe an arbantie.The nasal vowels etc also...as for gheg it is spoken as low as durres,elbasan tirane an western macedonia tosk is a standard albanian dilect that was forced among albanian ghegs.How you going to know how far gheg was spoken when many ghegs had to adopt tosk into their language by force of the goverment.As for the abreshe I really doubt they were all tosks you out of you mind,Every person who is mentioned in the 14ctry of albania had gheg names.This is issue with tosks they belive they are some special people..LET ME ASK DO YOU BELIVE CASTRIOTA WAS TOSK OR GHEG?Think about you answer before reply

I'm starting from the last question: I just think that the inhabitants of Mati, Dibra and Kruja during the rule of Kastrioti were ethnic ghegs. We can't be 100% what really kastrioti family was, simply because they were nobles and they got married with other nobles including Greeks, albans, Serbs, montenegrins etc. George Kastrioti was married with the daughter of Gjergj Arianiti , whose realm was located in tosk lands.

Linguistically it's proven that the arberesh of Italy were tosks. They migrated from south Greece. A small portion of them were ghegs who migrated from north Albania after the fell of Kastrioti principality. These ghegs settled in south Italy because were welcomed by the king of Naples, who was a close allied of scanderbeg. Besides that, the majority of the inhabitants of gheg Albania migrated further north up to the republic of Ragusa, which was still not subdued by the ottomans. This migration happened afterward the fell of Scodra, which was the last stronghold anti- ottoman throughout Albanian lands.

If we see the large amount of tosk settlements throughout south Italy afterward the ottoman invasion of south Greece, we conclude or assume that the tosk population throughout south Greece was much more larger than it's said in our history books.

 

[Piro Ilir]

I am albanian and im gheg.If some does not agree with other albanians makes them not albanian?I gave you my besa an my name in real life so is no issue,,

Sorry, you misunderstood me maybe. We are just discussing here about history, that's all. I am not saying that you are not Albanian. I'm just expressing my opinion about the history

 

[Piro Ilir]

So this is tosk?

What has to do that with our discussion? [emoji45]

 

[Piro Ilir]

Conclusion - Evliya Celebi 17th century Turkish traveller during the Ottoman period who wrote about his experiences in the empire:
Modern Catholic Albanians = Quraysh mixed with Franks and other
Modern Orthodox Albanians = Quraysh mixed with Balkanians "Native, Slavs" and other
Modern Muslim Albanians = Quraysh mixed with Turks, Balkanian muslim converts and other

So ,which is your point in the end?

 

[Piro Ilir]

This could have some sense. Progonat literally means 'a place for the outcasts', which should be an inhabited place. There was later also a Progon family, probably from the same region?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progon_family

No, indeed Albanians don't exist, they are a fake creature made by CIA [emoji23]

 

[Piro Ilir]

Yes albanians were under the ottomans in 1385 first south albania from greece then worked its way upwards to southern gheg dilect of elbasan one of first ghegs that fell to ottomans then north albania.In dibra in 1400s they did fall to ottomans was another albanian gheg that fell.it was part of the mati region was populated by geg albanians an still today is populated by ghegs,, islam was spread to albania via the greek pashas.infact memehtII the very man who destroyed albania had greek blood from the hatun family something many people really dont understand.My tribe did not have to pay tax after the full of albania. albanians or italia arbreshe an the pope payed our tax to remain catholic. shkodra in 1479 along with durres in 1501 were last to fall to islam an ottomans.greeks helped spread islam into albania hear.Murad I, (1360–1389) Ottoman sultan, Greek mother, Nilüfer Hatun.hear is a list of greeks working for the ottomans.dibra is located north lake orid population gheg., not south as Piro says their is no ghegs i dont agree fully.Gjon kastriota was the father of scanderbeg he was Lord of Mat.Gjon's father was nobleman Pal Kastrioti, who held two villages as segnior de Signa signa is sine.View attachment 7451 arban was the first Albanian state during the Middle Ages. The state was established by archonProgon in the region of Kruja, in ca 1190. It doesnt matter when albanians worked for the ottomans an it doesnt matter when castriota was also taken by the ottomans if it was early than of north etc means nothing my friend...

The whole region of dibra was and is gheg. I never mentioned they are not ghegs.

 

[Piro Ilir]

Whats wrong with the flag of the "Secular Republic of Australia"................it will change flag in 2018 when the last territory will become North Australia and becomes a federated state like the rest.

Why they will change the flag? Interesting

 

[Piro Ilir]

Indeed, that would be very eloquent and scientific terminology from medieval highlanders




Please you. Wake up from your national-romantic dream, because it is totally plausible. There are many indications that parts of population of Albania are from the East. Where do you think they've got that non-IE pronunciation?

View attachment 7452

Don't you get bored with that!

Of course Albanian language has pre indo europen remains within. Indeed either the Greek language has. Both, Greek and Albanian have an too ancient substrate within their language. Whether Greek language and Albanian have traces of pre IE, simply because they were the first indo European tribes migrating into Balkans, who are still alive. The trace could be Semitic in general, not Arabic. Phoenicians, ancient Egyptians, Minoans, and the people of early farming were not indo- European, instead they were Semitic maybe. According to you Greeks are not IE?

 

[Piro Ilir]

The book about Georgija Kastriot written by Petar Popovski.

There are 20 full songs like these in the book, sung in a western Macedonian (Mijak) dialect. Albanians have none. Georgija Kastriot was IMPOSED in their history, by the Austro-hungarian and Italian politico-historians when Albania was formed in 1912.

One is the song about the dream of his mother Voislava and the second is the song about Georgija and his wife Marija Andronika.

Son sonila Voislava kralica
son sonila od son se isplasila
Mi rodila bela luta zmija
So kriljata Epir pokrivala
So glavata carigrad dopirala
Kako zmija glava mu vrtela
Take zivi Turci mi g'ltala

Se chudeje epirski vojvodi
sho je ova chudo nevideno
Malo kralce, s kruna na cheloto
Se radveshe Ivanova roda
Brakja , sestri i si bratuchedi
Sho se rodi dete zvezdajlija...

Mu kladoja ime Gospodovo
Georgija - ime hristijansko
Makedonsko - slavno biblijansko....

==========

Ushche zora ne zorila
Stana Ivan na pot da mi odit
Mi razbudi sina Georgija
Si jafnaje svoi brzi konji
Otidoje vo grada Kanina..

Zdravo zivo tije si storile
I na divan skrisno besedeje
Da se krenat protiv Osmanlii
Da si vratit zemji porobeni
Ji sluzese mlada Andronika
S crno kafe i s luta rakija
Frli oko Gjorgji na devojka
Lichna moma kako samovila....


Even today in Mount Athos in the Monastery Hilandar(Χιλανδαρίου) you can see the writing of the monk Nikanor that says:
Сеи хрисовуль есть господара Ивнна Кацтпиота македонскаго, и копίе его вь немъ есть. И пише како даеть монастирю нашему две села во и суща съ церковьίю Пресветы, Богородицы тамо сущίа, и описуеть вс по синорами, и прочат.

A part of the charter written by the hand of Ivan to the Monastery of Hilendar, on Sveta Gora, from 1426.
In this document, written in Old Church Slavic language
the following is written.
"According to the unspeakable mercy of my ruler Christ, I, sinful and
unworthy, must not be mistaken to my Jesus Christ, Ivan Kastriot and my sons Stanisha and Riposha and Konstantin and Georgija have contributed to the Holy monastery great Prechista of the ruler Lavri of Hilendar and I contributed the village Rodostushe and the church St.Prechista Bogorodica, also in that village Rodostushe and the village Trebishte.
The writing is confirmed with a seal with the name of Ivan Kastriot,
written in Cyrillic alphabet (See documents in: St.Novakovich, Legal
monuments./fifth book, pg. 467).

From the correspondence with the Dubrovnik Republic, having political, military and trade relations, three letters have been saved written also in Cyrillic alphabet.
His Macedonian-Christian spirit and character is clearly seen from the letters. This spirit is mostly expressed in the letter from 25 February 1420, sent to the landowner Petar from Dubrovnik, which says:
"My faith in Christ as well as the faith of my sons Reposh, Stanislav, Konstantin and Georgija. My Gjorgjian country, extending from Konjuh (now Elbasan) to Prizren, is maintained and cultivated by me, Mr. Ivan and my sons."

I don't see your point here. You think that they were Bulgarians? In what letters you waiting he was writing there?

 

[Ike]

Don't you get bored with that!

Of course Albanian language has pre indo europen remains within. Indeed either the Greek language has. Both, Greek and Albanian have an too ancient substrate within their language. Whether Greek language and Albanian have traces of pre IE, simply because they were the first indo European tribes migrating into Balkans, who are still alive. The trace could be Semitic in general, not Arabic. Phoenicians, ancient Egyptians, Minoans, and the people of early farming were not indo- European, instead they were Semitic maybe. According to you Greeks are not IE?

I'm not talking about substrate, but about pronunciation.

 

[Ike]

No, indeed Albanians don't exist, they are a fake creature made by CIA [emoji23]

You're mixing Albanians and Shqiptars again.

 

[ukaj]

What has to do that with our discussion? [emoji45]

You said struga were all tosk.Anyway.all is well i sounded like i trying to devide albanian people am srry for that,,

 

[ukaj]

Indeed, that would be very eloquent and scientific terminology from medieval highlanders




Please you. Wake up from your national-romantic dream, because it is totally plausible. There are many indications that parts of population of Albania are from the East. Where do you think they've got that non-IE pronunciation?

View attachment 7452

Mirdite is northern albanian tribe from mati,,This has nothing to do with quraysh.lmao i have cousin from this tirbe,,,

 

[ukaj]

You're mixing Albanians and Shqiptars again.

Ike.I dont understand why you mention albanian an shqiptar they are same people.Clearly you dont know why we call ourselves shqiptar.Shqiptar or shqiperia means to speak clear.We also use the old term arbon witch is older form in all albanian dilects both tosk an gheg,You saying albanians are basicly not same as medievil albanians of arbreshe an arbantie..How do you know that they are not the same as us with all the assimilation that has gone on you might be right.Their is alot of ottomans in greece alot of vlachs,slavs etc