I agree with you. There is another big problem in Europe, and it has nothing to do with immigration, it is indeed the social structure. I don't however see any link with tribalism. It is socialism and IMO Europeans themselves are more victims of this system than immigrants.
The social security system in Europe takes large chunks of the national budgets. Taxes are high and private initiative isn't stimulated nor rewarded.
It is no coincidence that companies like google, yahoo or apple only exist in America, not in Europe.
And I would say the problem is bigger in western Europe than it is in eastern Europe.
Besides that, I'm convinced that the kind of immigrants that arrives in Europe certainly wouldn't make it in America either. On the contrary.
You may be right about your last statement, but I don't think it has to do with poverty or education levels. There's something else going on. See the study below on Middle Eastern immigrants to the U.S.
http://cis.org/MiddleEasternImmigrantsProfile
Education levels are high, and yet a significant percentage are not succeeding here based on use of welfare and benefit programs. The authors of the study tried to see if it was refugees who were more frequently on benefits and that proved not to be the case, as removing them from the statistics did not close the gap.
I'm wondering whether religious differences could explain it, as a large percentage of our Middle Eastern immigrants have traditionally been Christians. Whether their religion leads to a resistance to assimilation on the part of Muslims, or more discrimination on the part of "natives" toward Muslims, or both, I don't know. I can just say anecdotally that I've never seem discrimination against Muslims on the part of "natives". I mean, even in San Bernardino, where it was totally unappreciated, the colleagues of the male gunman had thrown him and his wife a huge baby shower, often asked him out for social occasions etc..
"Figure 2 shows that in contrast to immigrants in general, those from the Middle East tend to be more educated than natives. While a very large share of immigrants overall are high school dropouts, those from the Middle East are only slightly more likely to be dropouts than natives. At the higher end of the education distribution, almost 49 percent of Middle Eastern immigrants have at least a bachelor's degree compared to only 28 percent of natives; "
"While it is not possible to definitively identify refugees and asylees in the data, if we exclude the three primary refugee-sending countries of Afghanistan, Iraq, and Sudan, we still find that poverty and welfare use remain significantly higher than natives. In 2000, excluding these countries, 18.4 percent of Middle Eastern immigrants and their U.S.-born children lived in poverty, indicating that poverty is at least as high among the non-refugee population as among refugees.
If we exclude the refugees we find that 21.4 percent of households headed by non-refugees from the region used welfare.
15 Thus, the high rates of poverty and welfare use do not seem to be the result of those allowed into the country for humanitarian reasons. Overall, Table 5 presents a mixed picture of the socio-economic status of Middle Eastern immigrants. While most Middle Eastern immigrants seem to have integrated economically into their new country, a significant share are not doing as well and are finding it difficult to succeed in America."
Regardless of the answer to that question, I think it's undeniable that even with the bottom tier of these immigrants we have a better success rate in terms of assimilation. I quite understand why there might be a reluctance on the part of Europeans to admit that, but in my opinion it's true nonetheless.
They also conclude with the following:
"The successful integration of Middle Eastern immigrants into American society can only be partly measured by a study such as this, which only examines socio-demographic variables such as education or income or welfare use. Assimilation and incorporation is, of course, much more than holding a job, buying a house, or driving on the right side of the road. In terms of economic status, these immigrants tend to be well-educated with median incomes at least as high as those of natives. The findings also show that high rates of poverty and welfare use are common among the Middle Eastern immigrant population.
But on the question of what one scholar has described as "patriotic assimilation," this report is entirely silent. Do these immigrants and their children view themselves as Americans first and Pakistanis, Iranians, and Egyptians second? Are Middle Eastern immigrants or immigrants in general coming to see America's history as their history? We cannot say from these data. Moreover, assimilation is a two-way street. Do native-born Americans view Middle Easterners as their fellow countrymen? Although these questions are as important as the questions explored in this study, Census Bureau data do not provide answers to them. Despite its limitations, the analysis found in this
Backgrounder is intended to inform discussion about this growing segment of immigration to the United States."
As for the other subject under discussion, tribalism is one issue; the rigid social structure and the socialistic values and economic structure common in Europe which affects "native" people is another. It's a double whammy. The bottom line is that whole segments of the society, instead of contributing, are just taking.
@gyms,
Whatever else you may wish to accuse him of, lack of knowledge of eastern Europe can't be one of them.
I agree on integration, though probably not to what level it should be implemented. I'm very strong on immigrants being tolerant, open minded and supporting democracy. This would sith all the fundamentalists and nationalists.