The rise of PIEs in the steppes --- From the Ural or from the from the Caucasus?

[Yetos]

The sample size of DNAtribes might be too small for albanians, hence the strange absence of mediteranean component. The steppes route is also a possibility, maybe they both happened at different times. Also to consider is that albanians have a lot of dinaric I2 and R1a, which probably came from the steppes too. Those albanians with dinaric I2 or R1a would not have had a lot of time to get the east-mediteranean component, since they incorporated in the gene pool in the middle ages.

are you still speaking to us shameless after what you did?

asking forgiveness from Herodotus is a good action.

 

[zanipolo]

I am trying to point at a possible R1b migration wave to europe after the fall of the hittite empire around or before 1200 BC. The migration split into thracians, illyrians, and celts. The phrygians was the remnant of this wave that stayed in anatolia.
On a sidenote, the romans claimed to descend from the trojans (phrygians, hittites). Coincidentally they were also R1b, based on today italians.

by 1200BC which is th eperiod of the bronze-age migrations and the sea peoples, there where no illyrians anywhere near montenegro and the celts where sill in the alps

Romans claim descent from the trojans, so do the swedes, so do the slavs....
The romans are subjugated southern etruscans that broke free from the proper etruscans, the tiber river was always the noted as an etruscan river.....IIRC the etrucans border was with modern day campania region ( naples)

read:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ajpa.21235/suppinfo

KenN said
Another anomaly of the Montenegro I2a2a-Dinaric: it seems to have a lot of
448 = 18 and 389 = 14,32 haplotypes --- much more in fraction of total than
Eastern Europe I2a2a-Dinaric in general. Serbs don't seem to have it.

Illyrians are basically northern balkan people made up of 5 major tribes, Pannonians, Luburni, Dalmatian, Ardiaei and Autariatae

No Albanian marker found in the link



Uploaded with ImageShack.us


which below is the Albanian one?

I2a ancestor (P37.2+): 10.366 BP (8400 BCE)
I2a1 (M26+): 10.221 BP (8200 BCE) - this is the "Sardinian group" (plus in Iberia, France)
I2a (xI2a1): 8535 BP (6500 BCE) - Carcium Pottery Neolithic in the Mediterranean from around 5700 BCE
I2a3 (L233+) 4424 BP (2400 BCE) - Alps
I2a* France: 2892 BP (900 BCE) - France
I2a2 all ancestor (M423): 7009 BP (5000 BCE)
I2a2b (L161) - Isles: 6803 BP (4800 BCE) - Britain - note: Early Neolithic in Britain (Long Barrows) from 4400 BCE
I2a2a (L69) - Dinaric all: 3427 BP (1400 BCE)
I2a2a Disles (Dinaric-type in Britain): 2985 BP (1000 BCE)
I2a2a Dinaric all: 2547 BP (550 BCE) - Eastern Europe
Dinaric North: 1706 BP (300 CE) - Slavic expansion from 500 CE
Dinaric South: 1761 BP (250 CE) - Slavic expansion from 500 CE

 

[kamani]

by 1200BC which is th eperiod of the bronze-age migrations and the sea peoples, there where no illyrians anywhere near montenegro and the celts where sill in the alps

Romans claim descent from the trojans, so do the swedes, so do the slavs....
The romans are subjugated southern etruscans that broke free from the proper etruscans, the tiber river was always the noted as an etruscan river.....IIRC the etrucans border was with modern day campania region ( naples)

We have Urnfield which is proto-celtic, from 1250 BC, and then fully celtic Hallstat from 800 BC. The dates are still close. Also look at the R1b mutations flow, the parent M269* is always in the balkans or east.

 

[Yetos]

We have Urnfield which is proto-celtic, from 1250 BC, and then fully celtic Hallstat from 800 BC. The dates are still close. Also look at the R1b mutations flow, the parent M269* is always in the balkans or east.

can you hold more trough mister 'twisting texts' ?

or you are gonna twist gennetics also? like with E-v13 which you make it Caucasian?

Don't you feel a a little bit shame at all?

you still believe that the theories they told in school or in your Nazi-parties is the truth?

 

[Goga]

@ ElHorsto

As Islamic (Muslim) folks I believe that Albanians are heavily mixed with Turkic tribes. Albania is a small country with a little population (2 million is nothing), so it was very easy for the Turks to leave their DNA in the Albanian gene pool.

The Altai component in Albanians is most probably from recent times inherited form the Turks.

 

[kamani]

ups, I got everybody scared of an R1b alliance now. Dont' worry guys, you can consider new ideas, the irish are not coming back in the balkans to revive the trojans or the thracians. We are just talking about what has happened, and in my book this is what has happened, and I don't let anybody bully me to shut my mouth.

@goga
yDNA and mDNA of albanians is no more simmilar with turkish that any of its neighbors. Albanians have been mostly christian until the 1800-s when the ottomans started a policy of forceful mass conversions. They're still 50% christian or agnostic today. And they were a country of 2 million who fought and beat the ottoman empire armies for 25 years (1444-1470), when they were at the peak of their power, while the rest of christian europe was having a good time in the west.

 

[Yetos]

ups, I got everybody scared of an R1b alliance now. Dont' worry guys, you can consider new ideas, the irish are not coming back in the balkans to revive the trojans or the thracians. We are just talking about what has happened, and in my book this is what has happened, and I don't let anybody bully me to shut my mouth.

@goga
yDNA and mDNA of albanians is no more simmilar with turkish that any of its neighbors. Albanians have been mostly christian until the 1800-s when the ottomans started a policy of forceful mass conversions. They're still 50% christian or agnostic today. And they were a country of 2 million who fought and beat the ottoman empire armies for 25 years (1444-1470), when they were at the peak of their power, while the rest of christian europe was having a good time in the west.

Kamani

you are still twisting data

you believe that every body in the forum is stupid?
and you always give wrong data?

Albania is member of Islamic countries
together Albania with Kossovo and Tettovo have 75-85% muslim population (Including Bektash Muslims-Heresy)

Orthodox Christian in Albania south reach 6-12% (according where you put Greek minority 4-6%)
and Catholic in the North have 10% (spoted 30%)
jews are 3-4%

where you found that 50%? again from your mind?

the congress of Muslim countries gives other Data

@Kamani

Do You believe we are Idiot or Stupid?

Vallavan pasha was Ottoman? or Albanian from Mat?

Krujia was a civil war with help from Ottomans,

it was Kastriotis's 12-14 Families vs Vallavan pasha + Ottomans,

we are not Idiots in the forum
start giving correct Data and not after your possible theories.


Nobody want you to keep your mouth shut,
simply when you don't give correct data, you are twisting texts, you are twisting gennetics,you have twisted almost everything in your Posts.

 

[Yetos]

@ ElHorsto

As Islamic (Muslim) folks I believe that Albanians are heavily mixed with Turkic tribes. Albania is a small country with a little population (2 million is nothing), so it was very easy for the Turks to leave their DNA in the Albanian gene pool.

The Altai component in Albanians is most probably from recent times inherited form the Turks.

It can be like that but I am more suspicious to medieval times, and Turkic population.

the story gives Ottoman away from Albania, except big cities , same as Greece, Serbia
Albania was not so much colonized by Ottomans, Neither Bosnia which is the other muslim Balkanic country

so I am suspicious more to medieval Turkic,
names like Anjou and Hunjades, more to Chans Huns Cumans, than Ottomans
Cumans were a Turkic tribe that settled Albania Fyrom Serbia Romania

that is why I ask el Horsto if that peak is spoted or general in population,

 

[kamani]

These are the results of the 2011 national census in Albania. They were also shown on national television so I am not making them up.

minorities
24000 greeks
5500 macedonians

religion
58.79% muslims
10.3% catolic christian
6.75% orthodox christian
0.14% protestan christian
13.79% agnostic

And of those 58% that declared themselves muslim I doubt that even 5% are practicing muslims; the rest just say because that's what their families were before communism. Religion was banned in Albania for 50 years during communism. If you mentioned the word "muslim" or "christian" in public, you were put in jail for 10+ years.

And please don't try to belittle the monumental struggle of albanians against the ottoman occupation. The sultan himself came to the siege of Kruja in Skanderbeg times and he couldn't take it. The best turkish generals failed one by one against the albanian Skanderbeg. He was one of the first ones to ever beat the ottomans in europe, in a time when everybody else was getting scared and cutting deals with them.

 

[Yetos]

These are the results of the 2011 national census in Albania. They were also shown on national television so I am not making them up.

minorities
24000 greeks
5500 macedonians

religion
58.79% muslims
10.3% catolic christian
6.75% orthodox christian
0.14% protestan christian
13.79% agnostic

And of those 58% that declared themselves muslim I doubt that even 5% are practicing muslims; the rest just say because that's what their families were before communism. Religion was banned in Albania for 50 years during communism. If you mentioned the word "muslim" or "christian" in public, you were put in jail for 10+ years.

And please don't try to belittle the monumental struggle of albanians against the ottoman occupation. The sultan himself came to the siege of Kruja in Skanderbeg times and he couldn't take it. The best turkish generals failed one by one against the albanian Skanderbeg. He was one of the first ones to ever beat the ottomans in europe, in a time when everybody else was getting scared and cutting deals with them.

I know about Hodza laws,

when I say 75-85% I input kossovo+tettovo,

even the καννων (Canun) law today is not in use.

almost not in use.


about Krujia I said

Kastriotis's 12-14 families vs Vallavan + Ottomans,

the bravery etc is another story away from thread and forum, and no need to be told I think, cause will take days, and out of Forum focusing.
with out offence against Kastrioti or Ottomans, but who cares,
the question is mainly the Altaic mark,

Do you believe is after Ottoman Turkish? or from central Europe Huns Cumans?

ty, for data almost simmilar I have with difference orthodox 13% including Greeks and Slavic Makedonians.

 

[kamani]

The altaic in albanians is only 3-4% higher than expected (balkan 4.1%, albanian 7.9%). I am guessing not a lot of albanians have participated in this study, hence the "rough edges".

 

[Finalise]

Albanians haven't mixed at all with the Turks. DNA was compared with Arbereshe (pre-Ottoman Albanians who escaped to Italy) and the only difference is Albanians today have higher J2B. And this has nothing to do with turks since Anatolians have J2A, and J2B is a native Balkanian haplogroup.

The 1% Egyptian component I'm assuming are the Jevg communities from North Africa, which came to Albania during Ottoman times. They are usually isolated communities, but with globalization they are being more and more integrated into Albanian society. Some of them have even forgotten about their roots and consider themselves ethnically Albanian.

The only Albanians that mixed with Turks are the ones that were sent over to Turkey, which there are about anywhere from 1-5 million Turkish people of partial Albanian ancestry.

It is retarded to assume people mixed simply because of religion. That is to say everyone in Europe who adops Catholicism is heavily mixed with Italians? Religion in Albania has always taken a backseat to nationalism.

The Albanian-Celtic connection has always intrigued me but Ive never made anything of it. The name Albania seems to be of Celtic Origin, and as mentioned Celtus and Illyrus were brothers in Greek mythology. But I honestly dont know enough of genetics/linguistics to make any claims.

 

[Eldritch]

by 1200BC which is th eperiod of the bronze-age migrations and the sea peoples, there where no illyrians anywhere near montenegro and the celts where sill in the alps

Romans claim descent from the trojans, so do the swedes, so do the slavs....
The romans are subjugated southern etruscans that broke free from the proper etruscans, the tiber river was always the noted as an etruscan river.....IIRC the etrucans border was with modern day campania region ( naples)

read:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ajpa.21235/suppinfo

KenN said
Another anomaly of the Montenegro I2a2a-Dinaric: it seems to have a lot of
448 = 18 and 389 = 14,32 haplotypes --- much more in fraction of total than
Eastern Europe I2a2a-Dinaric in general. Serbs don't seem to have it.

Illyrians are basically northern balkan people made up of 5 major tribes, Pannonians, Luburni, Dalmatian, Ardiaei and Autariatae

No Albanian marker found in the link



Uploaded with ImageShack.us


which below is the Albanian one?

I2a ancestor (P37.2+): 10.366 BP (8400 BCE)
I2a1 (M26+): 10.221 BP (8200 BCE) - this is the "Sardinian group" (plus in Iberia, France)
I2a (xI2a1): 8535 BP (6500 BCE) - Carcium Pottery Neolithic in the Mediterranean from around 5700 BCE
I2a3 (L233+) 4424 BP (2400 BCE) - Alps
I2a* France: 2892 BP (900 BCE) - France
I2a2 all ancestor (M423): 7009 BP (5000 BCE)
I2a2b (L161) - Isles: 6803 BP (4800 BCE) - Britain - note: Early Neolithic in Britain (Long Barrows) from 4400 BCE
I2a2a (L69) - Dinaric all: 3427 BP (1400 BCE)
I2a2a Disles (Dinaric-type in Britain): 2985 BP (1000 BCE)
I2a2a Dinaric all: 2547 BP (550 BCE) - Eastern Europe
Dinaric North: 1706 BP (300 CE) - Slavic expansion from 500 CE
Dinaric South: 1761 BP (250 CE) - Slavic expansion from 500 CE

Not again with this I2a1b thing, it has nothing to do with Illyrians.
It's a Slavic marker.

 

[Templar]

Not again with this I2a1b thing, it has nothing to do with Illyrians.
It's a Slavic marker.

It isn't necessarily a Slavic marker. The areas that seem like the best candidates of the Slavic homeland, are mostly R1a and have low amounts of I2a. The areas with the highest amounts of I2a in the West Balkans are the mountainous parts (such as Herzegovina). The flat parts of Croatia for example have a higher frequency of R1a (which isn't exclusive a Slavic marker, but it tends to be the most common in Slavic populations), than the mountainous parts. Flat areas are better for farming, so ofcourse new conquerors (in this case Slavs) would mostly settle there, therefore the native population best survived in the mountains. And the typical phenotype of a person in high altitude parts of ex-Yugoslavia is Dinaric/Borreby. Long face, back of the head seems "cut-off", long legs, hairiness is common, extreme tallness, etc. And I know this from personal experience. In the flat areas of ex-Yugoslavia, people have the typical Slavic look, rounder faces, lighter eyes and hair, average height, etc.

How can I2a be Slavic when:
1) 70% of men in Herzegovina have it, and it is one of the most isolated parts of the Balkans
2) Russians, Poles, and other typical Slavs have it at a MUCH lower frequency (under 20%)
3) the obvious areas where Slavs would have settled in the Balkans have the typical high R1a frequency and low I2a frequency
4) The South Slav phenotype is completely different from the West and East Slav phenotype

 

[Malsori]

It isn't necessarily a Slavic marker. The areas that seem like the best candidates of the Slavic homeland, are mostly R1a and have low amounts of I2a. The areas with the highest amounts of I2a in the West Balkans are the mountainous parts (such as Herzegovina). The flat parts of Croatia for example have a higher frequency of R1a (which isn't exclusive a Slavic marker, but it tends to be the most common in Slavic populations), than the mountainous parts. Flat areas are better for farming, so ofcourse new conquerors (in this case Slavs) would mostly settle there, therefore the native population best survived in the mountains. And the typical phenotype of a person in high altitude parts of ex-Yugoslavia is Dinaric/Borreby. Long face, back of the head seems "cut-off", long legs, hairiness is common, extreme tallness, etc. And I know this from personal experience. In the flat areas of ex-Yugoslavia, people have the typical Slavic look, rounder faces, lighter eyes and hair, average height, etc.

How can I2a be Slavic when:
1) 70% of men in Herzegovina have it, and it is one of the most isolated parts of the Balkans
2) Russians, Poles, and other typical Slavs have it at a MUCH lower frequency (under 20%)
3) the obvious areas where Slavs would have settled in the Balkans have the typical high R1a frequency and low I2a frequency
4) The South Slav phenotype is completely different from the West and East Slav phenotype

There is no I2a Y-DNA among South Slavs rather I2a2b-Dinaric cluster and the high percentage is due to founder effect since this haplogroup is maximum 2500-3000 years old. The highest diversity is found in Southern Ukraine( diversity is what matters not high percentages). It's the same story just as R1b became dominant among Western Europeans. And Eldritch has right, the possibility that this haplogroup came with Slavic migrations are rather quite strong if not 100% sure.

The only isolated people in Balkans are Kosovar Albanians and they almost lack this haplogroup. How come Balkan Slavs are isolated when they happen to speak a Slavic language lol. You Bosnians seems to suffer from extreme Illyrianism, moreso than Serbs. The only ones that support your ideal are outdated Igenea DNA tests. I think it is better for you guys to get over it.

p.s Seeing the 23andme, there is a lot of Ukrainians/Poles with this haplogroup lol.

 

[Templar]

There is no I2a Y-DNA among South Slavs rather I2a2b-Dinaric cluster

I2a2b-Din is a subcluster of the greater I2a. The reason why I didn't write I2a2b-Dinaric is because it isn't the ONLY I2a haplogroup in the balkans.

and the high percentage is due to founder effect since this haplogroup is maximum 2500-3000 years old.

I've actually heard studies suggest that it is actually much older than that, plus there hasn't been a detailed analysis of it yet. I shall await when concrete data is available. So far, I think it is more likely that it is native.

The highest diversity is found in Southern Ukraine

Doesn't mean anything though. Ukraine was at the center of nomadic settlement. People would separate from there and move to other places. It was the site of expansion, and this would coincide with a lot of haplogroup diversity, as it does.

And Eldritch has right, the possibility that this haplogroup came with Slavic migrations are rather quite strong if not 100% sure.

The how do you explain the typical Slavic haplogroup R1a being found in parts where you would expect them to settle? Fertile plains are far better for farming than rugged dry mountains. Yet it is in these rugged mountains where R1a is extremely rare.

The only isolated people in Balkans are Kosovar Albanians and they almost lack this haplogroup. How come Balkan Slavs are isolated when they happen to speak a Slavic language lol. You Bosnians seems to suffer from extreme Illyrianism, moreso than Serbs. The only ones that support your ideal are outdated Igenea DNA tests. I think it is better for you guys to get over it.

If you are going to be rude, please refrain from further discussions with me.

 

[Knovas]

The only isolated people in Balkans are Kosovar Albanians and they almost lack this haplogroup.

Having a different language compared to their neighbours, does not necessarily mean Kosovo Albanians are genetically isolated. Just check Goergians and Abkhasians, who don't even speak Indo-European, and their West Asian component is high as usual in the area. They do have their peculiarities concerning Y-DNA frequencies though, but this indicator is not reliable for the matter.

I am not saying what you say is wrong, maybe you manage other kind of information we lack. But according to what is publicly available right now, if I have to guess, the really isolated ones in the Balkans might be western Slovenians, next to the Northeast Italian border.

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...olates-identified-in-the-eastern-Italian-Alps

 

[Malsori]

I2a2b-Din is a subcluster of the greater I2a. The reason why I didn't write I2a2b-Dinaric is because it isn't the ONLY I2a haplogroup in the balkans.

Yes, I2a2b-Din is the only subclade found in Balkans. I don't know what is matter with that. As i previously said: The same story happened in Western Europe. They don't have older R1b subclades. 99% of them carry some sort of R1b1b1a2...... deep clade.

I've actually heard studies suggest that it is actually much older than that, plus there hasn't been a detailed analysis of it yet. I shall await when concrete data is available. So far, I think it is more likely that it is native.

There is no studies which implies that. Unless you are generous enough to post them here.

Doesn't mean anything though. Ukraine was at the center of nomadic settlement. People would separate from there and move to other places. It was the site of expansion, and this would coincide with a lot of haplogroup diversity, as it does.

Yes, it does mean alot. Before the Nomadic expansion from Pontic-Caspian steppes there was Neolithic settlements in Ukraine/Romania borders. That of Cucuteni-Trypillia. But, that is beyond the point thought. We are dealing with a specific timeline and specific place. Nordvedt is the biggest professional geneticist who has studies Y-DNA I. The guy has spend a lot of time studying the subclades. I doubt he holds any grudge toward Balkan Slavs. In fact, i am amazed of how you guys are in denial of your Slavic ancestry. I am not saying you don't have Balkan-Illyrian ancestry. In fact you do have at considerable percentage but you totally dismiss your Slavic side which isn't minimal at all especially from Y-DNA point of view which seems to be dominant.

The how do you explain the typical Slavic haplogroup R1a being found in parts where you would expect them to settle? Fertile plains are far better for farming than rugged dry mountains. Yet it is in these rugged mountains where R1a is extremely rare.

R1a is not the whole story. There is R1a subclades which aren't Slavic but let say partial Proto Indo-European R1a1a-M17 and ironically Balkanites do carry at some percentage that particular R1a1a subclade although not at high percentage. That subclade might predate Slavic migrations. And, you just keep inventing things with this regional stuffs. I bet you have nothing to back off your claims. Keep in mind I2a2b(Din) is found at some percentages among Southern Albanians. From historical sources we do know there was some concentrated Slavic settlements there. Also, it is more high among Northern Greeks and almost none among Peloponessian and Islander Greeks.

If you are going to be rude, please refrain from further discussions with me.

I am not rude to you. I haven't insulted you.

 

[Malsori]

Having a different language compared to their neighbours, does not necessarily mean Kosovo Albanians are genetically isolated. Just check Goergians and Abkhasians, who don't even speak Indo-European, and their West Asian component is high as usual in the area. They do have their peculiarities concerning Y-DNA frequencies though, but this indicator is not reliable for the matter.

I think Dienekes has explained quite well that West_Asian doesn't equal Proto Indo-European since there were non Indo-European speaking populations that carried this component. In fact, today this component peaks among non IE speaking populations. According to Dienekes assumption the West Asian equals PIE only in Europe and India with the Ancestral Northern Indian(ANI).

Besides that, his assumption is not a scientific theory. The Proto Indo-European question is still open for debate. You should not forget the Etruscan and Pelasgian migration from Anatolia which could also be source for this West-Asian.

I am not saying what you say is wrong, maybe you manage other kind of information we lack. But according to what is publicly available right now, if I have to guess, the really isolated ones in the Balkans might be western Slovenians, next to the Northeast Italian border.

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...olates-identified-in-the-eastern-Italian-Alps

And, i didn't mean genetically isolated in the Sardinian or Basque fashion since Kosovars are not so isolated but moreso than other Balkanites.

Check out this abstract of 2012 paper.

Contemporary inhabitants of the Balkan Peninsula belong to several ethnic groups of diverse cultural backgrounds. In this study, three ethnic groups from Bosnia and Herzegovina - Bosniacs, Bosnian Croats and Bosnian Serbs - and four other Slavic-speaking Western Balkan populations: Serbians, Croatians, Macedonians from Republic of Macedonia, Montenegrins, and Albanian-speaking Kosovars have been characterized for the genetic variation of 660 000 autosomal single nucleotide polymorphisms. Genetic structuring of Western Balkan populations has been analyzed in a global context. Comparison of the variation within autosomal and haploid data sets of studied Western Balkan populations revealed their genetic closeness regardless of a genetic system inspected, in particular among the Slavic speakers. Hence, culturally diverse Western Balkan populations are genetically very similar to each other. Only the Kosovars show slight differences both in the variance of autosomal and uniparentally inherited markers from the other populations of the region, possibly also due to their historically strict patrilineality. In a more general perspective, our results reveal clear genetic continuity between the Near Eastern and European populations, lending further credence to extensive, likely multiple and possibly bidirectional ancient gene flows between the Near East and Europe, cutting through the Balkans.

http://www.ashg.org/2012meeting/abstracts/fulltext/f120120711.htm

 

[Templar]

You Bosnians seems to suffer from extreme Illyrianism, moreso than Serbs. The only ones that support your ideal are outdated Igenea DNA tests. I think it is better for you guys to get over it.

That is very rude. We don't suffer from anything, and if you ask anyone it is usually Albanians that have odd theories.

Yes, it does mean alot. Before the Nomadic expansion from Pontic-Caspian steppes there was Neolithic settlements in Ukraine/Romania borders. That of Cucuteni-Trypillia

Yes I am aware of the Cucuteni-Trypillia, and you should have been more specific regarding "Ukraine" having more subclades than the West Balkans. The Cucuteni-Trypillia was much more concentrated in Romania and Moldova, rather than Ukraine. Did Slavs which passed by this area pick up a lot of people from that area? Probably. Did some of the haplogroup I in the West Balkans come with these Slavs? Probably. But to say that all of it came with them, and that it is a "Slavic" marker is ridiculous. The Cucuteni-Trypillia people were likely a mix of paleolithic people who took up farming and new neolithic migrants from the near east. Their phenotype was similar to that of other people in the Balkans.

My point is that I2a2b(Din) did not come from a far-flung steppe, it has always been in the Balkans. The I haplogroup diversity further justifies my claims, doesn't hurt them. And you aren't at all adressing the differences between South Slavs and other Slavs in terms of appearance.

R1a is not the whole story. There is R1a subclades which aren't Slavic but let say partial Proto Indo-European R1a1a-M17

I already wrote that R1a wasn't exclusively Slavic, but I explained that it is nonetheless most often found in Slavic populations.