Genetic study A genetic history of the Balkans from Roman frontier to Slavic migrations

Many historians mention Slavic settlements in Crete. Even if it is not true there is some, indirectly over the centuries, through mainland Greece.

Why is it such a big issue?
None historian ever claimed that, you shouldn't make up stuff to cover up your obsessions
 
None historian ever claimed that, you shouldn't make up stuff to cover up your obsessions
Three years ago, Pantelis Haralampakis
(Παντελής
Χαραλαμπάκης) published his
book entitled
Σλάβοι στην Κρήτη κατά τον Με
-σαίωνα και τους πρώιμους νεότερους χρόνους
(Ιστορικά και γλωσσικά τεκμήρια) [Slavs on
Crete in the Middle Ages and the Early Modern
Times (Historical and Linguistic Evidence)],
Andy’s Publishers, Athens 2016, pp. 340.
We intend to discuss not only the contents
of the book, but also the conclusions offered
by the author and what he managed to accom
plish through his work.

PETER CHARANIS
ON THE DEMOGRAPHY OF MEDIEVAL GREECE: A PROBLEM SOLVED

The Slavs then who settled in the Greek lands, settled there during thereign of Maurice in the 80’s of the sixth century. More Slavs may have comelater, but their coming cannot be precisely documented. The Slavs settled inMacedonia, in Thessaly, in Epirus, in central Greece, the Peloponnese, andeven in Crete.
 
I added Byzantine Era samples(obviously i removed any of them that are after 8th CE) and compared them against Peloponnese & Macedonia average from Davidski's list
Who are those Byzantines? I don't recall having Byzantine samples from Greece?
 
Three years ago, Pantelis Haralampakis
(Παντελής
Χαραλαμπάκης) published his
book entitled
Σλάβοι στην Κρήτη κατά τον Με
-σαίωνα και τους πρώιμους νεότερους χρόνους
(Ιστορικά και γλωσσικά τεκμήρια) [Slavs on
Crete in the Middle Ages and the Early Modern
Times (Historical and Linguistic Evidence)],
Andy’s Publishers, Athens 2016, pp. 340.
We intend to discuss not only the contents
of the book, but also the conclusions offered
by the author and what he managed to accom
plish through his work.

PETER CHARANIS
ON THE DEMOGRAPHY OF MEDIEVAL GREECE: A PROBLEM SOLVED

The Slavs then who settled in the Greek lands, settled there during thereign of Maurice in the 80’s of the sixth century. More Slavs may have comelater, but their coming cannot be precisely documented. The Slavs settled inMacedonia, in Thessaly, in Epirus, in central Greece, the Peloponnese, andeven in Crete.
Seriously dude?
You're talking about Slavic settlements,would you mind mentioning anyone?

PS
Did you now understand that eastern European admixture and Slavic admixture are two different things?
 
Who are those Byzantines? I don't recall having Byzantine samples from Greece?
Byzantine era samples*,you can find them in Davidski's file
They match with Mycenaeans and the IA/Archaic Greece samples(Kastrouli,Palace of Nestor etc)
 
Your comment doesn't make any sense, nobody's talking about purity.
I'm Just trying to make you understand that as the authors of your own sources say Eastern European ancestry isn't just slavic
but yamnaya+later immigrations(Which one of them are the Slavs)
claiming Eastern European ancestry=Slavic ancestry is insanely Idiotic.
The ancient Balkan samples indicate the extra Steppe is ancient Balkan as well (E-V13 and J2b-L283 related) which makes perfectly sense as I have already mentioned.

We know how ancient Balkans were, we have plenty of samples and it seems there was a genetic continuum in the area. Why we should find a classic or hellenistic Greek profile, significantly richer in Steppe than the Mycenaean and post-Mycenaean samples we already have?
 
The ancient Balkan samples indicate it is Balkan as well (E-V13 and J2b-L283 related) which makes perfectly sense as I have already mentioned.

We know how ancient Balkans were, we have plenty of samples and it seems there was a genetic continuum in the area. Why we should find a classic or hellenistic Greek profile, significantly richer in Steppe than the Mycenaean and post-Mycenaean samples we already have?
Eastern European ancestry is "now balkan as well"
Wth are you talking about my dear?

"Why we should find a classic or hellenistic Greek profile, significantly richer in Steppe than the Mycenaean and post-Mycenaean samples we already have?"

If you can't understand how nonsensical is to ask why Classical and Hellenistic samples are needed
It's obvious that you don't care about science,your confirmation bias is astonishing
 
Eastern European ancestry is "now balkan as well"
Wth are you talking about my dear?
I think it is very simple. We are talking about extra Steppe, Yamnaya-related ancestry. It came with Slavs and ancient Balkanic peoples.
You say a greater part of it than we think was ancient Greek. What makes you believe that? The data we have say the opposite.
 
Abdera is from Thrace, assuming the naming is correct. SLK1 is probably Hellenistic Thessaloniki but I don't think he is Anatolian admixed either he looks half between other Greeks and Sicilians probably due to having higher than average steppe (there are Greeks who are next to Minoans too). So this is how Classic Greeks looked like genetically:
MExlHyN.png
 
Eastern European ancestry is "now balkan as well"
Wth are you talking about my dear?

"Why we should find a classic or hellenistic Greek profile, significantly richer in Steppe than the Mycenaean and post-Mycenaean samples we already have?"

If you can't understand how nonsensical is to ask why Classical and Hellenistic samples are needed
It's obvious that you don't care about science,your confirmation bias is astonishing
Why a Greek of 500 BC would have significantly higher Steppe than a Pelponnesian and a Sterea Ellas Greek of 900 or 800 BC if we also think that more northern peoples like south Thracians and Peonians did not have much more STeppe than Greeks?
 
I think it is very simple. We are talking about extra Steppe, Yamnaya-related ancestry. It came with Slavs and ancient Balkanic peoples.
You say a greater part of it than we think was ancient Greek. What makes you believe that? The data we have say the opposite.
The problem is that you didn't write about the extra steppe in your post above.
You literally copy pasted about the total eastern European ancestry.

"You say a greater part of it than we think was ancient Greek."
The extra steppe admixture is ancient Greek????
Wth are you talking about my dear,you don't make any sense.
 
Why a Greek of 500 BC would have significantly higher Steppe than a Pelponnesian and a Sterea Ellas Greek of 900 or 800 BC if we also think that more northern peoples like south Thracians and Peonians did not have much more STeppe than Greeks?
This is why we need more samples
Stop embarrassing yourself dude
 
Abdera is from Thrace, assuming the naming is correct. SLK1 is probably Hellenistic Thessaloniki but I don't think he is Anatolian admixed either he looks half between other Greeks and Sicilians probably due to having higher than average steppe (there are Greeks who are next to Minoans too). So this is how Classic Greeks looked like genetically:
MExlHyN.png
Too many assumptions about one individual sample from an unpublished study my dear
 
What you deny is what makes perfectly sense given the genetic studies and History.

Ottoman Turks? Can you even tell the difference between Hellenistic era western Anatolians and Ottoman Turks?
Do you realize that this profile was a native Anatolia+ Hellenic mix?

Do you still expect classic Greek samples with 30% Steppe? It's not 2018. We have post-Mycenaean Greeks from mainland Greece and dozens of samples from ancient Balkans and Anatolia and it becomes clear what is the origin the origin of E-V13 and J2b-L283 in modern Greece.

Furthermore, the only Peloponnesians who plot very close to Cretans are the outlying Deep Maniots and to a lesser extent some eastern Arcadians.

The great majority of Peloponnesians are an intermediate population between South Balkans and Aegean plotting to the southern end of Balkan cluster.

We still discuss the same things while it is obvious that there is significant Slavic (maybe somewhat lower than what this study mentions but still significant) and Balkan input. OK, it's 12% in Crete and not 19 or 20 apnd mapybe the rest is Venetian as an older study indicated (because this is not the first study mentioning some Slavic ancestry even in Crete) So what?

Modern Greeks are modelled perfectly with Byzantine Greco-Anatolians, post-medieval Albanians and Slavs which makes perfectly sense since that was the synthesis of population of European Byzantine provinces.
No. What's backed by irrefutable evidence is that the modern Greek genetic profile was already emerging during the middle and late bronze age. Despite the fact that all of these samples come from southern Greece we now have 22 bronze aged samples that look like modern Greeks which absolutely dismantles the idea that steppe rich ancestry had become normalized only after 700AD. At this point the idea that Greeks harbor any significant amount of Slavic ancestry is looking like a fairy tale akin to some Slavic version of Nordicism. What we instead see is the genetic variation of modern Greece already found as present by the late bronze age, with modern northerly profiles being found even as far as Crete, but especially more so in the mainland.

If you don't believe me you can check out the samples yourself. I only used the distance function to remove any possible modelling bias.

 
This is why we need more samples
Stop embarrassing yourself dude
You embarrass yourself by being rude just because you don't like my opinion.

If you can give a solid argument why a classic Greek has significantly more Steppe than the post-Mycenaean mainland Greek samples and the same or even more than south Thracians I will be convinced. (Not to mention that recent studies indicate the ancient balkan-related ancestry of e-v13)

Otherwise, you can respond with some more insults
 
Good thing we have 6 others plotting like Mycenaeans.
Obviously one sample from a random screenshot from an unpublished study is better than several samples from several publisher studies that match with their predecessors from the same geographical area
 
No. What's backed by irrefutable evidence is that the modern Greek genetic profile was already emerging during the middle and late bronze age. Despite the fact that all of these samples come from southern Greece we now have 22 bronze aged samples that look like modern Greeks which absolutely dismantles the idea that steppe rich ancestry had become normalized only after 700AD. At this point the idea that Greeks harbor any significant amount of Slavic ancestry is looking like a fairy tale akin to some Slavic version of Nordicism. What we instead see is the genetic variation of modern Greece already found as present by the late bronze age, with modern northerly profiles being found even as far as Crete, but especially more so in the mainland.

If you don't believe me you can check out the samples yourself. I only used the distance function to remove any possible modelling bias.

We all know that Proto-Greek speakers, carried high Steppe related ancestry which was diluted by mixing with locals.

If you don't mind I would like more info about these BA samples
 

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