Are South Slavs more Balkan Native than Slavic?

[Lenab]

Serbians are not much Dinaric, even the Montenegrins are not that Dinaric, but Borreby-influenced.

Roughly correct map, except Montenegro has a Borreby element:

The purest anthropological Dinarics are to be found in Ghegnia. Coon noted this.

Tosks are predominantly Dinaro-Alpines.

Every Gheg is Dinaric some Serbs also from Kosovo can be Dinaric Montenegro are tallest in Europe same as Dutch. Dinarics are usually tall because it's a Megalithic IE strain.

 

[Lenab]

Also, in Mountain regions from the Balkans they are tall

 

[Fatherland]

Doesn't matter where people plot racially it matters how people look both Ghegs and Serb Thracians are considered Balkan I think both are considered South East European and both have a ( Dinaric phenotype ) the overwhelming majority of Serbs Albanians and Croats are Dinaric Megalithic from a smaller degree they are perhaps Alpine East Mediterranean Neolithic and just normal Alpine Slavic.

However you can appear Roman because you have a dinaric phenotype!

Croatian males from Dalmatia were 165cm back in 1880s.. Lifestyle and nutrition can change the height through few generations dramatically, the same applied to myself, since I am 198cm:

 

[Lenab]

Croatian males from Dalmatia were 165cm back in 1880s.. Lifestyle and nutrition can change the height through few generations dramatically, the same applied to myself, since I am 198cm:

There must be some kind of thread on this why different European sub races are tall or short, reasons why and is it anything to do with climate etc. All Dinaric men I have spoken to have been at least 185 for example trust me I don't like shortie men as I am almost 5'10 myself

 

[Fatherland]

There must be some kind of thread on this why different European sub races are tall or short, reasons why and is it anything to do with climate etc. All Dinaric men I have spoken to have been at least 185 for example trust me I don't like shortie men as I am almost 5'10 myself

My diet when growing up consisted a lot of meat and dairy. Less sugars.

 

[Lenab]

My diet when growing up consisted a lot of meat and dairy. Less sugars.

Then this is back to the Hunter Gatherer ways as I say Megalithic were very much so

 

[Fatherland]

Then this is back to the Hunter Gatherer ways as I say Megalithic were very much so

Kekekekekek

 

[mihaitzateo]

Ghegs from various regions:

How much Western admixture are Gheghs scoring?
I know average Romanian score about 19% Western admixture and Serbians were scoring lower than Romanians.
So this graph you found a more Western Shifted Serb.
I know that are ex-Yugos that are scoring even 30% Western admixture.
If your graph contains such a Yugo, than Gheghs should score something like 35% Western admixture.
Now, it depends if we are considering Greeks admixture Western or Eastern.
I would consider Greeks admixture Western and in this case, Albanians are actually Western Europeans, as Greeks.

 

[Wonomyro]

How much Western admixture are Gheghs scoring? I know average Romanian score about 19% Western admixture and Serbians were scoring lower than Romanians. So this graph you found a more Western Shifted Serb. I know that are ex-Yugos that are scoring even 30% Western admixture. If your graph contains such a Yugo, than Gheghs should score something like 35% Western admixture. Now, it depends if we are considering Greeks admixture Western or Eastern. I would consider Greeks admixture Western and in this case, Albanians are actually Western Europeans, as Greeks.

It is probably due to a higher number of “western” Serbs in the overall Serbian sample.

 

[Dibran]

rofl oh the irony

The irony is laughing when evidence is stacked against you slapping you in the face. Its not enough that speaking on a flimsy basis hasn't worked for the lot of Serbs and their anti-Albanian supporters, you have to even ignore the scientific and archaeological evidence which diminishes any argument you may muster. This clown Sile has been exposed and made a fool of numerous times by those more suited for these discussions than himself. Proto-Illyrian remains all bore J2b-L283, R1b, and V13. What is so hard to realize that you would ignore such actual evidence denying it to cling to the hopes of I2b-CTS10228 being Illyrian? Are you that disgusted with your roots?

Besides, Haplogroups amount to roughly one percent of the entire genome. You still have the other 99 percent to deal with, including the ethno-linguistic affiliation to which you ascribe.

You're Slavic. and at the end of the day, even a J2b/R1b/V13 Serb is still a Serb. Your language and culture dictated your ethnic affiliations. If we're going purely on the science of haplogroups, most Albanian trace their common ancestors to Illyrians. The science has shown that. Whatever I2 that may have existed among them, is most certainly not the modern very young variety found in Slavs. Even if for pure argument Illyrians carried CTS10228, the branches to which Slavs belong, evolved and expanded with the Slavic migration. you would need to belong to a basal clade predating those expansions to even hypothesize about an alternate root. Even then, the only candidate outside of the Slavs is Dacians that escaped beyond the Danube. Not the Illyrians.

 

[Dibran]

Yes so you plot next to Balkan Slavs Romanian and Bulgarian and one guy somewhat overlaps with Macedonian Greeks none plot near Tuscans because you are from the Balkans living in the state which* is called Illyria doesn't make you genetically Illyrian because if that were the case every North Albanian would plot on Tuscany which none of you actually do.

Gedmatch is not more reliable than scientifically published papers, which all illustrate the same point...majority of Albanians plot between Tuscans and Mainland Greeks, generally eastern shifted Tuscans.

 

[Dibran]

My diet when growing up consisted a lot of meat and dairy. Less sugars.

Mine too. but I wasn't active as much so I stunted my growth a bit lol. I was supposed to be 6' on average. They actually found being too physically active also adversely affected the growth cycle. Which is why hard working farmers from central and southern Albanians down were shorter on average compared to those in the mountains who worked less and were better fed from raiding lowlands. I gotta find the paper. It was quite interesting. My grand uncle was tall, like 6'3. My grandfather was my height 5'8. He also worked hard labor since 10 and was less well fed than those provided for(his brother included). Crazy how genetics works sometimes.
'

 

[Fatherland]

How much Western admixture are Gheghs scoring?
I know average Romanian score about 19% Western admixture and Serbians were scoring lower than Romanians.
So this graph you found a more Western Shifted Serb.
I know that are ex-Yugos that are scoring even 30% Western admixture.
If your graph contains such a Yugo, than Gheghs should score something like 35% Western admixture.
Now, it depends if we are considering Greeks admixture Western or Eastern.
I would consider Greeks admixture Western and in this case, Albanians are actually Western Europeans, as Greeks.

Serbs in this graph are rather close to Albanians mostly due to Montenegrins in the Serb project pulling them there.

Without Montenegrin samples, Serbs would plot nearer Croatians and Bosnians. And as the other user said, there are alot of Serbians from the western Serbia in the project and not many from the eastern.

Gheg Albanians in the project are allover from North Albania, Central Albania, FYROM, Kosovo.

 

[Sile]

Albanians are the closest peoples of the Balkan peninsula to the Tuscans/Central Italians genetically. We plot very closely to Tuscans.

I suggest you read up on the corinthian greeks , who discovered, created all the coastal towns in modern south montengro and all of albania..........begin at 750BC
basically the south adriatic sea was corinthian greek seas, they colonised the bulk of this area.

as for your tuscan/central italian union.......it most likely is via the corinthians and their link between albania and central italy, starting from ancona and moving south

 

[mihaitzateo]

@Dibran:
I think Albanians actually are Thracians-Celtic remnants.
With Thracians being a group of related ehtnicities, as for example is the Slavic group of ethnicities.
Now, is true that both Illyrians and Dacians were considered part of the Thracians, but Albanians seems to be descendants of some warrior Thracian tribes, that mixed to the some warrior Celts tribes.
Albanians do have a tradition of fighting. I do not know if Illyrians were a warrior population.
In Romanian countries, boyars were hiring Albanians as fighters "Arnautzi".
I was curios who from the Albanians is more warrior-like population, Gheghs or Tosks?
As a curious thing, Aromanians from Albania are having like 36% R1B.
No one did a more in depth testing of these branches, to see what kind of R1B these Aromanians have.
I think that Aromanians and Albanians from Kosovo, from the populations located into Eastern Europe are having highest R1B.
Albanians from Kosovo have like 21% R1B.
There are also the Armenians, that have more R1B (about 28%) but all other Europeans located in the East of Europe, including Finns, score few or very few R1B.
Also Malta got more R1B, over 20%.
As a curios thing, even Swedes are under 20% R1B (about 13% R1B, for Swedes).

 

[LABERIA]

I suggest you read up on the corinthian greeks , who discovered, created all the coastal towns in modern south montengro and all of albania..........begin at 750BC
basically the south adriatic sea was corinthian greek seas, they colonised the bulk of this area.
as for your tuscan/central italian union.......it most likely is via the corinthians and their link between albania and central italy, starting from ancona and moving south

But if they controlled everything, why did they asked for the help of the Romans against Illyrians? Why Greeks build even walls to stop the Illyrian tribes of Epir flooding Thessaly?

 

[Milan.M]

Illyrians proper of Pliny are just the red area,the rest are just called so.
Even Italy it initially referred to the tip of the Italian peninsula, now called Calabria; during the Roman Empire, it was extended to refer to the whole Italian geographical region (including the islands of Sicily, Sardinia and Corsica).
So no confusion Illyria is geographical region we even have Illyria Graeca.

 

[Fatherland]

As a curious thing, Aromanians from Albania are having like 36% R1B.
No one did a more in depth testing of these branches, to see what kind of R1B these Aromanians have.
I think that Aromanians and Albanians from Kosovo, from the populations located into Eastern Europe are having highest R1B.

I agree with you, interesting points.

The only problem is that there are so few Aromanians tested, approximately 30-40 Aromanians in every region.
If there was 500-1000 tested we would see more stable percentages.

I mean there are regions of Aromanians scoring 46% J2b2 iirc, still only 30-40 people tested.

What I gathered so far is that Aromanians are mainly of the R1b Balkan clades, commonly found in Albanians, Romanians, Bulgarians and Greeks.

They also have a sizable percentage of Italic R1b, which makes me believe a part of the Aromanian population descent from Roman colonists that came to Albania after they had defeated the Illyrians(and Epiroteans).

 

[Fatherland]

R1b(all various clades) in the Balkans is mostly elevated in non-Slavic speakers. Same goes for J2b2 & J2a1.

 

[Wonomyro]

Serbs in this graph are rather close to Albanians mostly due to Montenegrins in the Serb project pulling them there. Without Montenegrin samples, Serbs would plot nearer Croatians and Bosnians.

And as the other user said, there are alot of Serbians from the western Serbia in the project and not many from the eastern.

In this study, Montenegrins, Serbs from Serbia, and Serbs from Bosnia (“western Serbs”) are presented in different colours.

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/figure?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0105090.g003

The samples were taken here:

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/a...id=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0105090.g001