Politics Future of Greece

[LeBrok]

we thank technology for having prove and reminders of where Europe is coming from only just a few decades ago. Pity we dont have the same for the misery and chaos on many occasions in the thousand years that preceded that. Maybe we should stop romanticising history documentary's and movies and focus more on the realities of pique, the very few privileged that could afford to portrait themselves in paintings and the real hardship that most people had to go through.

I wrote this few years ago:
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/26867-Inglorious-lives-of-our-ancestors?p=393813#post393813

 

[LeBrok]

first thing to do in Europe is reduce the number of politicians drastically

Yes, but how we are going to improve the quality of politicians? Shouldn't we elect the smartest and most honest of us all to rule over millions?

to many intermediate governing levels
to many overlapping structures
to many commitees
to many rulers in their own small empire
we don't need new structures
we need to break down the unnecessary structures first

Beauty in simplicity.

civilians should feel again they have their own faith in hands, and don't have to rely on government for everything
I think that is the main difference with America

I like the Swiss referendum system. We should be able to cast our votes on many issues from our computers and smartphones.
I can do banking online and move thousands of dollars, I can log into government site and update info, pay taxes, etc. But we can't figure out a voting system online?

 

[bicicleur 2]

Yes, but how we are going to improve the quality of politicians? Shouldn't we elect the smartest and most honest of us all to rule over millions?

sometimes I think people are to stupid for democracy
they elect to many smooth talkers telling the stories they want to hear
and press don't help to keep people informed either nowadays, it's all about sensation and news of the day, never looking any further

 

[Maleth]

I wrote this few years ago:
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/26867-Inglorious-lives-of-our-ancestors?p=393813#post393813

enjoyed reading that, thanks. So real and ironic considering today's lament compared with that of the not so distant past.

 

[bicicleur 2]

I wrote this few years ago:
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/26867-Inglorious-lives-of-our-ancestors?p=393813#post393813

good point

people take to much for granted and tend to blame governement or capitalism or whoever for whatever misfortune occurs

 

[Angela]

Science and technology, and, I would maintain, for all their flaws, capitalism and democracy. changed our health. our standard of living, and our control over our own destinies. They also gave us more effective tools for our murderous impulses. Now we even have the capability through chemical and biological weapons to wipe out the human race. With nuclear weapons we can also destroy the planet.

Education isn't enough. Democracy isn't enough. The German people elected a Nazi government. The Gaza elected Hamas. Doctors chose children for medical experimentation at Auschwitz. People in the Balkans tried to "ethnically cleanse" one another not even a generation ago. We now have a young American raised electrical engineer, an athlete, well-adjusted and popular, who becomes so "radicalized" that he butchers unarmed Marine reservists, young men and women with whom he might have gone to school.

Somebody tell me the solution. We're still savages; we just have better tools.

 

[LeBrok]

sometimes I think people are to stupid for democracy
they elect to many smooth talkers telling the stories they want to hear
and press don't help to keep people informed either nowadays, it's all about sensation and news of the day, never looking any further

Definitively their should be tests to qualify for governance positions. Doctors need to pass multiple exams, so do lawyers and other professionals. But the most important profession, which cam make or brake the nation is up for grabs for any smooth talker. How about at least an IQ test, clean financial and criminal records, and governance graduation system? First you need to be successful in running institution or corporation, then city, then province, till you pass these tests to become a president.

For electorate and election I would try "multi stage" proxy voting. The fact is that most people are not interested in politics, especially in countries of high economic standards, either they vote for the looks or they don't vote at all. In my city only 40% of voters turns out on an election day, sometimes even less.
I would make votes transferable. Meaning that one (not interested) can reward his vote to a person which he/she finds trustworthy, smart and interested in politics. This chosen person could take part in election, in name of these many uninterested voters, making obviously a smarter political and economic decision than original voters would.
Or this person could transfer all his/her voting powers to others, and so on up the ladder, till one owns majority of votes and is elected to Parliament or as a President. This would be no party electoral system. Just a chain of people choosing the smart and trustworthy people they know, interested in politics and governance. There would be check and balances installed to keep all honest, like no selling votes and renewing proxies on a yearly base.

Would it work?

 

[LeBrok]

Science and technology, and, I would maintain, for all their flaws, capitalism and democracy. changed our health. our standard of living, and our control over our own destinies. They also gave us more effective tools for our murderous impulses. Now we even have the capability through chemical and biological weapons to wipe out the human race. With nuclear weapons we can also destroy the planet.

Education isn't enough. Democracy isn't enough. The German people elected a Nazi government. The Gaza elected Hamas. Doctors chose children for medical experimentation at Auschwitz. People in the Balkans tried to "ethnically cleanse" one another not even a generation ago. We now have a young American raised electrical engineer, an athlete, well-adjusted and popular, who becomes so "radicalized" that he butchers unarmed Marine reservists, young men and women with whom he might have gone to school.

Somebody tell me the solution. We're still savages; we just have better tools.

Wow, someone woke up a pessimist today.

 

[Piro Ilir]

Science and technology, and, I would maintain, for all their flaws, capitalism and democracy. changed our health. our standard of living, and our control over our own destinies. They also gave us more effective tools for our murderous impulses. Now we even have the capability through chemical and biological weapons to wipe out the human race. With nuclear weapons we can also destroy the planet.

Education isn't enough. Democracy isn't enough. The German people elected a Nazi government. The Gaza elected Hamas. Doctors chose children for medical experimentation at Auschwitz. People in the Balkans tried to "ethnically cleanse" one another not even a generation ago. We now have a young American raised electrical engineer, an athlete, well-adjusted and popular, who becomes so "radicalized" that he butchers unarmed Marine reservists, young men and women with whom he might have gone to school.

Somebody tell me the solution. We're still savages; we just have better tools.

Democracy is a process. Everything need time. At least, the situation in Balkans generally talking is better than was during the cold war and earlier too. The democracy has many problems, but is the only way we have on to a better world. For me the democracy is almost like a religion. It can save us all. It mean freedom, and freedom works.

 

[DuPidh]

European Union is not hell, on contrary, it is realization of centuries-old aspirations of people of Europe.

After all, Albania received enormous assistance from the European Union to skip backwardness.

Its true that EU is the aspiration of small countries of Europe. I don't think is all good about EU. Among others if countries like Albania become members of EU run the risk of brain drain. The few capable people of the country will look for better paying jobs in the most powerful members of the union. Albania has not gotten any significant economic help from the EU so far. Most of the help has been moral support. The work of emigrants around the world, illegal activities to some extent have been responsible for whatever advance Albanian has had. The only help they have given is their governance model where different point of views are respected. I personally wished EU did not exist.

 

[Sirius]

DuPidh... there below your avatar, it says your are in México.. Are you Mexican? Did you immigrate to Mexico?


Or you just randomly choosed that option when you signed in?


Your last post centers on your opinión of Albania. I would not comment on that, but you finish your comment with

I personally wished EU did not exist.

I am surprised that a Mexican has an opinion about that.


The existance of the EU, as an economic entity, do not affect us (Mexicans) negatively in the least, as I see it.


Could you elaborate?

 

[bicicleur 2]

I hope the new deal with Greece will work, but I'm pessimistic about that.
I think Grexit would have been better. For Greece and for EU.

 

[Piro Ilir]

I hope the new deal with Greece will work, but I'm pessimistic about that.
I think Grexit would have been better. For Greece and for EU.

Probably, on the future will be a grexit. I see lots of problems for Greece on the future

 

[LeBrok]

I hope the new deal with Greece will work, but I'm pessimistic about that.
I think Grexit would have been better. For Greece and for EU.

If Greeks could reform and improve their economy they could get out of this mountain of debt in couple of decades. If they could double their GDP in 15 years, plus inflation would nimble at the debt, debt value will shrink to 1/3 when compared to GDP. They would need to just pay off the interest only, and the debt will be shrinking with time.

 

[Piro Ilir]

If Greeks could reform and improve their economy they could get out of this mountain of debt in couple of decades. If they could double their GDP in 15 years, plus inflation would nimble at the debt, debt value will shrink to 1/3 when compared to GDP. They would need to just pay off the interest only, and the debt will be shrinking with time.

Before reforming the economy, they should to reform their own mentality. But this will be very difficult, soon at least.

 

[Garrick]

I personally wished EU did not exist.

European Union is the best expression of aspirations of European nations.

I think in the future EU will further strengthen, not only in terms of expansion, but primary institutional.

 

[bicicleur 2]

If Greeks could reform and improve their economy they could get out of this mountain of debt in couple of decades. If they could double their GDP in 15 years, plus inflation would nimble at the debt, debt value will shrink to 1/3 when compared to GDP. They would need to just pay off the interest only, and the debt will be shrinking with time.

Greece pays virtually no intrests. They have the highest debt rate of the whole EU, but pay less intrests than most EU countries.
They get their money virtually for free. And when the new loan will - if ever - be paid back nobody knows.
Debt relief is something that European taxpayers wouldn't accept.
Debt relief is not the main issue either.
The main issue is the reform of the Greek society and economy.
I don't believe giving more money will help.
I believe Grexit would have been the right shocktherapy. But politicians were not brave enough to let it happen.
Maybe Grexit will come. IMO within 5 years there will be a new Greek crisis.

Greece should never have been allowed to the Euro. They didn't meet the requierements. They falsified their accounts and EU politcians knew about that.
They said 'politics should surpass economics in crucial moments'.
Now they say that 'history has shown that after long discussions with all fractions the EU Parliament allways ends up making the right decision'.
No journalist asked them why then Greece was allowed to the Euro in the first place.
I'm so fed up with all these smooth talkers who are acting totally irresponsable.

 

[bicicleur 2]

Before reforming the economy, they should to reform their own mentality. But this will be very difficult, soon at least.

yes, shocktherapy is what they need, giving more money won't help

look at the referendum they held, the voted no against reform
yet they play another act to get more intrest-free loans without fixed payback date

how stupid can you be?

 

[Piro Ilir]

European Union is the best expression of aspirations of European nations.

I think in the future EU will further strengthen, not only in terms of expansion, but primary institutional.

EU, need a lot of reforms too. They need more centralization I think. Somehow they need to build a state, as USA did. For the moment is a big mess

 

[Piro Ilir]

yes, shocktherapy is what they need, giving more money won't help

look at the referendum they held, the voted no against reform
yet they play another act to get more intrest-free loans without fixed payback date

how stupid can you be?

The whole EU program of help will failure. After that, they will blame again the troika and the Germany. Already they are calling Germans with disgusting epithets. Greece need a new start