Future of Greece

[bicicleur 2]

It is one of main reason EU will not only survive but will grow stronger. In the future will also include Russia (after change of president and more reforms), because Russia by itself will mean less and less against China and rest of Asia.

I hope so but I don't think so.
I like the Russians, I don't like what happens in Russia.

But for Europe, I certainly don't like what is happening in Turkey lately. It may become a bigger threat than Russia.

 

[Garrick]

It is one of main reason EU will not only survive but will grow stronger. In the future will also include Russia (after change of president and more reforms), because Russia by itself will mean less and less against China and rest of Asia.

Yes, I'm sure EU will be more united and stronger and strengthening of institutions on the union and euro zone level is natural process.

But I'm not sure for Russia. Yes, there was idea that will be union between Lisbon and Vladivostok. However, situation is different. Six million European Russians in next period will move to the Russian Far East. Russia turns to Asia and it can be ongoing process. China is faster.

 

[LeBrok]

Yes, I'm sure EU will be more united and stronger and strengthening of institutions on the union and euro zone level is natural process.

But I'm not sure for Russia. Yes, there was idea that will be union between Lisbon and Vladivostok. However, situation is different. Six million European Russians in next period will move to the Russian Far East. Russia turns to Asia and it can be ongoing process. China is faster.

In European Union Russia could be one of dominant powers. In Asia they will be dwarfed by China, and India soon, not an equal partner.

 

[bicicleur 2]

In European Union Russia could be one of dominant powers. In Asia they will be dwarfed by China, and India soon, not an equal partner.

I'm not sure about that.
Russian commodities could be very interesting for China.

 

[LeBrok]

I'm not sure about that.
Russian commodities could be very interesting for China.

Yes but China always will get cheapest price, and treat Russia like a cheap supermarket. Russia will get better prices in EU and will be treated like an important member.

 

[Piro Ilir]

still hide behind Mexican flag?


DO YOU NEED A MASK TO POST?

Why you like to make it personal all the time?! Be focused on arguments. Maybe he is an Albanian living in Mexico, or a Mexican living in Albania .

 

[Piro Ilir]

I do not deny what you say,

but you give only the one side of the coin,
as you say Greece Greece used goldman sachs, to falsify accounts, but Eu politicians knew it,
BUT ACCEPTED !!! WHY?
I think the same 'hate' against Greece must also be in the same Degree with the politicians who accept it,

and the Eu tax payers are not paying Greece, but Goldman Sachs, But still you blame Greece,
and can I accept that?
But why you do not blame the politicians who knew and accept to pay Goldman Sachs?

Guys isn't time for EU to learn the lesson against neo-liberians?

THE EEC and EUrozone, had no mechanism to defend in such cases,
after 2008 with Greece as victim they finally manage to ESM but still is not working with great efficiency, but is a substractum to discuss for future,

the problem of EU states to borrow with different rates/interests from privateers or foreign Bankers, is almost solved,
Afetr Greek crisis, all Money Vultures who wanted to enslave free world under the 'myth of free will world' of Milton Friedman they can not touch EU states.
it is time to stop and erase Rothschild system, WHO FROM NAPOLEON WARS TILL TODAY THEY GET RICH BY KILLING AND ENSLAVE EUROPE

so thanks to dirty/fallen/bad/ugly Greece EU has a mechanism of stability and secure, and is safe from FRIEDMAN's money vultures who want to enslave human beings with 'state loans'

MAYBE THE POLITICIANS WHO ACCEPTED THE FALSIFIED GREEK ACCOUNTS, KNEW ABOUT THAT BUT LET IT HAPPEN IN ORDER TO "DEFEND/ARMOR'' EU in the future,


until today, states borrowed from privateers with diferent rates,
from this times,
states can have same rate from ESM and ECB,
is n't that something for EU? just ask



But when comes to personal I feel much anger than you, and more hate against some kinds of my people,
who accepted millions of Euro to make trash bargains, or to corrupt society,
I feel anger for my politicians, some of them my choice, who still walk free with 'black' money in their pockets,
a hate that lead many to Golden dawn or radical left.
anyway soon you will learn why that happened,
not far in time, it has to do with geopoliticks.
my hate for the 100 000 Greeks who send their 128 000 000 000 E abroad to other Banks outside Greece with out pay the taxes, is bigger than your anger,
now you see why Grexit is on discuss continuesly?
search the gold prizes from 2004 till today, you understand more, about the other side of the coin.

The situation there is simple. You can not spend, more than you earn by working. Neo liberalism of EU has nothing to do here. Don't blame the neo liberalism for the wrong economy guides of Greece.

 

[Piro Ilir]

Perhaps we should have "governments for hire", professionals who knows how economy works and other aspects of well run country? Maybe Greece should accept (elect) German, Swiss or Singaporeans to run Greece for a decade or two? Without good economy Greeks are doomed. Somebody needs to restart the economic engine.

It will be too sad. It is the end or the death of democracy.

 

[Piro Ilir]

For now both Russia and Turkey are going into dictatorship and human rights abuse mod, and as such won't be accepted into EU. They don't even want to be in EU at the moment, so it is no issue.
I'm thinking 20-50 years ahead when both become more civilized, democratic and liberal.

Turkey last years is decreasing in democracy, for sure. Erdogan is copying Putin I think, maybe. But still is not in the same position with Russia. At least turkey is a NATO member, and also institutionally is more close to EU.

 

[Piro Ilir]

Yes but China always will get cheapest price, and treat Russia like a cheap supermarket. Russia will get better prices in EU and will be treated like an important member.

Russia will never join EU. Russia is more comfortable within a alliance with China. Russia has a lot of fuel for the Chinese engine economy. [emoji6] . They need each other. They could help each other on their economy.

 

[Yetos]

The situation there is simple. You can not spend, more than you earn by working. Neo liberalism of EU has nothing to do here. Don't blame the neo liberalism for the wrong economy guides of Greece.

you are just young,
search Chicago economic schools Milton Friedman
the man who said free world in Capitalism, but manage to enslave inocent through his methods,
NO WE DO NOT NEED A DIXIE/YANKEE WAR IN EU FOR THE SHAKE OF SUCH MINDS,
he who knows understand

 

[LeBrok]

It will be too sad. It is the end or the death of democracy.

Yes, in critical situations even Roman Republic was giving up democracy and choosing a dictator to run things for few years.

 

[LeBrok]

Turkey last years is decreasing in democracy, for sure. Erdogan is copying Putin I think, maybe. But still is not in the same position with Russia. At least turkey is a NATO member, and also institutionally is more close to EU.

You are right, at least Turkey from time to time had ambitions to become more Western and closer to EU. Russia on other hand didn't identify itself as pro western or pro EU, and preferred to be very independent or even in opposition, with a goal of creating their own union.

 

[LeBrok]

Russia will never join EU. Russia is more comfortable within a alliance with China. Russia has a lot of fuel for the Chinese engine economy. [emoji6] . They need each other. They could help each other on their economy.

It is more about treatment too. EU will treat Russians as equal, Chinese will treat Russians like a sub-race with weird culture.

 

[LeBrok]

you are just young,
search Chicago economic schools Milton Friedman
the man who said free world in Capitalism, but manage to enslave inocent through his methods,
NO WE DO NOT NEED A DIXIE/YANKEE WAR IN EU FOR THE SHAKE OF SUCH MINDS,
he who knows understand

Yetos, nobody wants to enslave anyone. If US and big capital want to steal something it would be from rich Germans and Japanese, and not from poor Greeks, with its small population and no natural resources. Even Robin Hood knew that the best way is to steal from rich.

 

[Piro Ilir]

you are just young,
search Chicago economic schools Milton Friedman
the man who said free world in Capitalism, but manage to enslave inocent through his methods,
NO WE DO NOT NEED A DIXIE/YANKEE WAR IN EU FOR THE SHAKE OF SUCH MINDS,
he who knows understand

What I know for sure is all that what we learned from the history. Today the strongest and powerful economies of the world are USA, Britain, Germany and Japan. Why?
Liberalism, for sure. Thanks the Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan economic policy those countries are the strongest economies of world. Greece needs to start from the ruins its economy. They need a real and true capitalism. France and Italy needs a lot of change too. If Greece would not change as soon as possible, you are gonna see some unimaginable events. Trust me. Germany will not spend infinity to hold the Greek economy upstanding. No one will do, whatever sort of the propaganda Greeks will use .
Enough with socialism, only work, work, work .

 

[Piro Ilir]

Yes, in critical situations even Roman Republic was giving up democracy and choosing a dictator to run things for few years.

Yes, I agree. But the risk that over time it returns to habit [emoji6]. It happened on Rome. Today people praise Julius Cesar, but I hate him. He was the first one who destroyed the Roman republic.

 

[Piro Ilir]

Yetos, nobody wants to enslave anyone. If US and big capital want to steal something it would be from rich Germans and Japanese, and not from poor Greeks, with its small population and no natural resources. Even Robin Hood knew that the best way is to steal from rich.

Yes. There are some people even in Albania who hates USA and capitalism. They think in the same way as Yetos. Albanian state has less than 3 million of inhabitants. [emoji23].
I was grown in a social communist country. I know how sad it is. It's a different thing to see the communism on TV and completely another to live on a communist country [emoji17]

 

[LeBrok]

Yes. There are some people even in Albania who hates USA and capitalism. They think in the same way as Yetos. Albanian state has less than 3 million of inhabitants. [emoji23].
I was grown in a social communist country. I know how sad it is. It's a different thing to see the communism on TV and completely another to live on a communist country [emoji17]

I lived my first 23 years under communist regime in Poland. That's why I left. I didn't fit the mold.

 

[Yetos]

Yetos, nobody wants to enslave anyone. If US and big capital want to steal something it would be from rich Germans and Japanese, and not from poor Greeks, with its small population and no natural resources. Even Robin Hood knew that the best way is to steal from rich.

@Lebrok

yes like Argentina2

anyway,

I grew in free in a family who teach me freedom,
at 1945-1950, communists took half of my grand father production, and 2 times they they try to execute my other grand father for ransom, as capitalist
today these 'communists' are rich enough,
i was born and grew the times of US Junda in Greece, and I was kid and I see 2 times my father to be taken by force from home, and accusing him for communism, and try to send him to exile,
growing up, I understand that every system, away from ideology, is rotten by its own supporters