Future of Greece

[Yetos]

The paradigm shift is coming soon. Probably sooner than we expect. The most difficult thing will be the lose of taxpayers, as most people won't work anymore. The money flow as we know it will be screwed up. Perhaps a back door communism?

I doupt about a back door communism,
yet the problem in Greece is that more than 43% surely (govermental and public issue workers) fed by state, is like communism
I must agree that only communistic countries had such numbers.

on the other hand the right to keep loans at low multiple amounts and reduce the rates,
even to stop the stupidity of loan to a country, and then use the ethnic /state mechanism to collect multiple times the amount is something that must stop
Rothschild system of harrasing ethnic wealth, by getting 10-20 times the loan must stop,

FREE WORLD STOP WHEN VENICIAN SYSTEM IS IN ACT,
cause by that system you ask a 'piece of body flesh' by people who just never took something from you, just because they belong somewhere,

YOU ARE NOT FREE, WHEN YOU OWN TO SOMEONE,

SO VENICIAN SYSTEM AND ITS LATER EXPAND BY ROTHSCHILD IS KILLING FREE WORLD,

 

[Djordjo]

Greece was one of the key NATO countries and capitalst block intentionally pumped it with money in order to prevent socialist revolution and to show neighbouring countries that capitalism is great. Western banks continued this in even larger extent after desintegration of socialist block for about two decades, but today, western countries want to cut this because debt has gone too far

 

[bicicleur 2]

I doupt about a back door communism,
yet the problem in Greece is that more than 43% surely (govermental and public issue workers) fed by state, is like communism
I must agree that only communistic countries had such numbers.

on the other hand the right to keep loans at low multiple amounts and reduce the rates,
even to stop the stupidity of loan to a country, and then use the ethnic /state mechanism to collect multiple times the amount is something that must stop
Rothschild system of harrasing ethnic wealth, by getting 10-20 times the loan must stop,

FREE WORLD STOP WHEN VENICIAN SYSTEM IS IN ACT,
cause by that system you ask a 'piece of body flesh' by people who just never took something from you, just because they belong somewhere,

YOU ARE NOT FREE, WHEN YOU OWN TO SOMEONE,

SO VENICIAN SYSTEM AND ITS LATER EXPAND BY ROTHSCHILD IS KILLING FREE WORLD,

that's correct
politicians spend all the money they can get into all kinds of popular projects
they hope it will get them re-elected
and they leave the next generation with lots of debts to pay back

 

[Kardu]

I agree. I don't like rude and abusive posts and people.

You are really sad aren't you? Apart from being unjust, childish and totalitarian.

 

[LeBrok]

Sounds like No won at 60%.

Now what? Change all Euros to Drachmas in Greek banks computers and open the banks? Should it be so easy?

I guess before this happens, Greek government will try to get a super sweet deal from Eurozone first.

 

[LeBrok]

Greece was one of the key NATO countries and capitalst block intentionally pumped it with money in order to prevent socialist revolution and to show neighbouring countries that capitalism is great. Western banks continued this in even larger extent after desintegration of socialist block for about two decades, but today, western countries want to cut this because debt has gone too far

You are reading too much into it. It is not about NATO, or Eurozone, or capitalism. Greeks borrowed too much money, and now they can't pay it back, that's all.

 

[Yetos]

You are reading too much into it. It is not about NATO, or Eurozone, or capitalism. Greeks borrowed too much money, and now they can't pay it back, that's all.

No my Friend,

BANKSTERS GAVE TOO MUCH MONEY TO GREECE, CHARMED BY HIGH RATES,
Greed apetite for more!!

it is time banksters to take a lesson, and not create Ethnic destructions any more.

and do not dare to accuse me for communism any more,
THERE IS NO FREEDOM IN COMMUNISM
THERE IS NO FREEDOM IN BANKING CAPITALISM


PS
we might turn to bitcoins, :grin: who knows!!!

 

[Sile]

To be in the EU , you need to work as hard as the hardest workers, if you cannot keep up , then you are left behind.
The Greeks could not do that, they joined thinking the EU was a holiday, they lived beyond theirs means.

Italy too, falsified their books to get into the EU........we will see in the next decade what happens to them. But to charge 53% company tax, when your neighbours, Slovenia, Austria ( EU members) charge 33% means Italian companies have gone abroad. Albania, not in the EU has gained by Italian companies setting up industries there.

Don't worry Greeks, Italian business will be knocking at your door once the dust settles.

 

[LeBrok]

No my Friend,

BANKERS GAVE TOO MUCH MONEY TO GREECE, CHARMED BY HIGH RATES,
Greed apetite for more!!

Greek promised to pay it back, right?

 

[Yetos]

Greek promised to pay it back, right?

they knew that would not take them back didn't they?
but their greed now wants land and oil and ports and trains and highway,

their greed was so much, that blind them, asking 10 times more the amount of capital,
while they knew that Greek economy was trebling and non vital,

a loan is always risky,
a good bank ask what you have if you can not pay?
what these Banksters ask? for secure?
peoples death? or harrasing their few saved economies?

in fact that might a chance for EU to understand and realize the different rates and what Banksters and corporations can do to states,
and take control of capitalistic anarchy

PS
would you give a friend money with high rates when you know he can not pay back?

 

[ElHorsto]

After that only Angela accepting the choice of Greeks she declared that she will not speak again until referendum ends,
and force the rest not to openly discuss the subject,
told you it is the first time I could click a Like to her

She always manages to escape trouble in the last moment.

 

[Angela]

The EU and the banks and investment houses and the Greek politicians were all complicit in this. Nobody has clean hands.

I know something about real estate in the U.S. It used to be that to get a home loan you had to put up 25% of the value of the home, and your mortgage payments couldn't be more than one quarter of your monthly take home pay. Then, all of a sudden the banks were giving out loans with nothing down, no collateral, no credit checks, no income checks, nothing. Part of the reason was the desire to give all Americans the ability to own a home, so the government was providing all this money for loans. Banks took the easy money. Loan officers would get bonuses for every mortgage they produced. Prices started climbing. Speculators got into the act.

Some lenders bought into the illusion that people would somehow pay, and if not, you could just take back the value of the house, which was always rising. Some knew the danger, but they knew how to minimize it as well, selling the mortgages to less savvy people as soon as possible.

Everybody knows the rest of the story.

This wasn't so different. The EU knew the accounts were false, so did the investment banks, and so did the Greek politicians. There was no way that a country of 11 million with their type of economy was ever going to be able to pay it back. Where are the oil fields like Scotland's, or the coal or the rich farmland? The only way that it could have worked was if there had been investment into the Greek economy, but there wasn't. The banks just wanted their interest payments.

In the U.S. a couple of companies went under, but the government stepped in to bail out the rest of the banks, because they were "too big to fail". I was against it, but maybe there was a little bit of justice in it, because the government was complicit in what went on.

In the case of Greece, it wasn't too big to fail, so they let it fail.

Is this really what they intended to happen, however?

Bankruptcy, both individual and corporate, happens all the time. The creditors here almost always make the best of a bad situation and try to help the creditor regroup so that the loan is not a total loss. Companies often voluntarily go into court to get the debt restructured so they can get back on their feet. That's the practical, business like approach. It seems to me that in this case emotion ruled, emotion based on nationalistic feelings as much as anything else.

On the other hand, the debtor has to have some understanding that it has to restructure and has to work toward paying back the loan or at least the reduced loan. I don't see any such willingness on behalf of the Greek people. They've been fed a load of fantasy by their leaders that somehow the money will magically appear or fall from the trees to fund their social welfare state. You have to produce money in order to spend money on these things.

So, I'm not sanguine about Greece's prospects under this extreme socialist government. They know less about economics than a four year old. Have Europeans learned nothing from the last hundred years? Socialism doesn't work. You just all wind up poor together.

 

[Yetos]

She always manages to escape trouble in the last moment.

well she is good,
respectable enemy or ally, however you see it,

 

[LeBrok]

they knew that would not take them back didn't they?
but their greed now wants land and oil and ports and trains and highway,

their greed was so much, that blind them, asking 10 times more the amount of capital,
while they knew that Greek economy was trebling and non vital,

a loan is always risky,
a good bank ask what you have if you can not pay?
what these Banksters ask? for secure?
peoples death? or harrasing their few saved economies?

in fact that might a chance for EU to understand and realize the different rates and what Banksters and corporations can do to states,
and take control of capitalistic anarchy

PS
would you give a friend money with high rates when you know he can not pay back?

I gave money to friends without interest and they pay when they can.

Are you saying that Greeks were friends with IMF? I don't think it was about making friends, but doing business. They gave money with high interest rate, because they knew it is a risky business with Greek economy and government. Well, they were right.

 

[Garrick]

Socialism doesn't work.

In Yugoslavia invented self managing socialism, what didn't exist in the world. It was system where social ownership of the means of production was dominant, not state property as in countries of socialist block. System worked and gave certain results. Yet it has demonstrated some weaknesses. One of main weaknesses was that enterprises had both economic and social function. At the time of prosperity that is able to function and achieves results despite the demonstrated weaknesses. But when economy began to decline it proved to be unsustainable. However, interesting socio-economic experiment, someone can learn its advantages and disadvantages.

Capitalism generally is better system. I think it creates a more responsible behavior of market participants. Capitalism can be sustainable but it must take into account the wither aspects including environmental protection, resource constraints, influence of industry on climate etc. Economic crisis has revealed some weaknesses of capitalism. When such situations happen usually opportunities for inventions occur in large scale. Human nature is not perfect, all of us are well-known market participants who seek a variety of ways to cheat and corrupted politicians who say one thing and do another. But people are creative by nature too, people can creating something new, and I do not doubt that people will find ways to overcome the crisis and for further prosperity of mankind.

...
By the way, courageous decision of Greeks who went to the polls. What is especially interesting young people have voted in favour of NO, by around 2:1! Usually young people are harbingers of something new.

 

[LeBrok]

...
By the way, courageous decision of Greeks who went to the polls. What is especially interesting young people have voted in favour of NO, by around 2:1! Usually young people are harbingers of something new.

I thought they will chicken out and pick the safer option the "Yes". Now they will go into unknown.

 

[Angela]

In Yugoslavia invented self managing socialism, what didn't exist in the world. It was system where social ownership of the means of production was dominant, not state property as in countries of socialist block. System worked and gave certain results. Yet it has demonstrated some weaknesses. One of main weaknesses was that enterprises had both economic and social function. At the time of prosperity that is able to function and achieves results despite the demonstrated weaknesses. But when economy began to decline it proved to be unsustainable. However, interesting socio-economic experiment, someone can learn its advantages and disadvantages.

Capitalism generally is better system. I think it creates a more responsible behavior of market participants. Capitalism can be sustainable but it must take into account the wither aspects including environmental protection, resource constraints, influence of industry on climate etc. Economic crisis has revealed some weaknesses of capitalism. When such situations happen usually opportunities for inventions occur in large scale. Human nature is not perfect, all of us are well-known market participants who seek a variety of ways to cheat and corrupted politicians who say one thing and do another. But people are creative by nature too, people can creating something new, and I do not doubt that people will find ways to overcome the crisis and for further prosperity of mankind.

...
By the way, courageous decision of Greeks who went to the polls. What is especially interesting young people have voted in favour of NO, by around 2:1! Usually young people are harbingers of something new.

I agree with everything you wrote except your last sentence. Young people today have been totally spoilt and over-indulged by their parents and grandparents, especially in Europe. They have no conception that money has to be created before it can be spent; it doesn't fall from trees. They think times were tough the last couple of years? All those pensions, government salaries etc. will have to be paid for out of what they produce, and there won't be enough.

It's becoming like that here too...if you take a microphone out and interview twenty-somethings, they'll say they think there should not only be free health care, there should be free housing, and free food and free everything. Problem is, who will pay for it all? It won't be some of them; they'll be lying around drunk or unconscious from drugs, living in mom's basement.

 

[Yetos]

I gave money to friends without interest and they pay when they can.

Are you saying that Greeks were friends with IMF? I don't think it was about making friends, but doing business. They gave money with high interest rate, because they knew it is a risky business with Greek economy and government. Well, they were right.

correct,
you do not give with high interest, or ask 10 the quantity you gave
and you do not give high quantity loan to people you know that can not pay you back,
how on earth these 'smart genious' you call head of capitalism gave?
ask your shelf why?
are they 'smart? or are they so dump?
neither, their purpose is something else,
I see you notice the bankrupts Greece had in Past,
did you also notice the times?
if you notice and know modern Greek history, welcome, a war is near.

and you have to know and realize it,
cost of freedom is expensive
and freedom is not an iphone, neither a BMW,
Milton Friedman say many correct, but not this.
but how can I be Free in a capitalistic system when I find my shelf to own more than I can earn or produce , without even touching that money?
so in communism people are victims of equality and party
in Capitalism people are prisoners to loans with out even touch a single cent of it.
so we destroy Communism once and for all and welldone,
time to destroy bankers who enslave without their will
time to make world free again,away from Venician/Rothschild system, 'hallowed be this course, Blessed the act'

PS
personally I did not vote
I belong to 40% of Greeks who wanted the referendum to be canceled,
at this time it could be a subject of civil war,
something my country knew and passed and still the pain remained for generations
I accept the results, and I will suport it, nomatter it is |No or Yes and pray to Gods to keep us united,

 

[Kardu]

Interesting analysis from the far left perspective written before the referendum results were known.
The fact is that the status-quo is broken and new reality is being formed, the crisis bringing new opportunities to different forces.

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2015/07/tsipras-default-euro-syriza-merkel/

 

[Kardu]

"From the beginning, Merkel and the EU have operated from the position that because Greece took on debt, Greece now needs to pay it back. That position assumed — bizarrely, in hindsight — that debt only works one way: if you lend someone money, then they pay it back.
But that is NOT how free markets work.
Debt is not a guarantee of future payments in full. Rather, it is a risk that creditors take, in hopes of maybe being paid tomorrow.
The key word there is "risk.

If you're willing to take the risk, you'll get a premium — in the form of interest.
But the downside of that risk is that you lose your money. And Greece just called Germany's bluff."

http://www.businessinsider.com/greece-referendum-result-and-the-meaning-of-debt-2015-7