Haplogroup J2, Greeks, Phoenicians and Mesopotamians.

[RHAS]

RHAS
Thank you! It is exciting and it is a lot of job with documents.

You're welcome!

 

[RHAS]

Haplogroup J2 & Phoenicians (Carthage).

"By the collapse of the Late Bronze Age societies (approximately 3200 YBP), the Mediterranean Basin underwent different waves of invasion, particularly by the Greeks of the Aegean Sea and, to a lower extent, by Levantine (Phoenicians) groups. Both of them established a set of different colonies along the Mediterranean coasts of Southern Europe and North Africa. The Phoenician colony of Carthage (present-day Tunisia), given its geographic proximity to Sicily, may have played an important role in the colonization of this region. Previous Y-chromosome genetic studies on the Phoenician colonization demonstrated that haplogroup J2 in general, and six haplotypes in particular (PCS1+ through PCS6+), may potentially have represented lineages linked with the spread of the Phoenicians (“Phoenician Colonization Signal”) into the Mediterranean. At this respect, it is worth noting the presence of 4 PCS+ haplotypes (namely PCS1+, PCS2+, PCS4+, PCS5+; [51]) in 9 samples of our Sicilian and Southern Italian dataset, particularly belonging to haplogroups J1-M267 (n = 2), J2-M410* (n = 1), J2-M67 (n = 5), and J2-M12 (n = 2). However, sub-lineages of haplogroup J2 have been also associated with the Neolithic colonization of mainland Greece, Crete and Southern Italy, and our TMRCA estimates for J2-subhaplogroups (ranging from 3271±1157 YBP to 3767±1332 YBP) cannot exclude an earlier arrival of at least some of the J2 chromosomes in Sicily and Southern-Italy during Neolithic times."
An Ancient Mediterranean Melting Pot: Investigating the Uniparental Genetic Structure and Population History of Sicily and Southern Italy
http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0096074#pone-0096074-t001

"The results regarding my paternal genetics were identified as belonging to Haplogroup J2 (M172). This genetic marker dates back to roughly 15 000 yrs ago and is found predominately in the Fertile Crescent. Most prevalent in Southern Italy, Turkey, Greece, Lebanon, Cyprus and several other countries around the Mediterranean and Caucasus region, some sources claim that these are the genes of the ancient Phoenicians who may have settled in the Roman Empire long ago."
Livelearngrow.ca - My Roots.
http://livelearngrow.ca/category/my-roots/

"The excess of haplogroup J2, and PC1+ to PS3+ in coastal Tunisia, the site of Carthage, compared to inland Tunisian populations is exceptionally significant, and suggests that the Roman destruction of Carthage did not eliminate the Carthaginian gene pool."
Anthropology.net - The Y-Chromosomal Footprint Of Phoenicians Throughout The Mediterranean.
http://anthropology.net/2008/10/30/...-of-phoenicians-throughout-the-mediterranean/

Aeneas recounting the Trojan War to Dido, a painting by Pierre-Narcisse Guérin. This scene is taken from Virgil's Aeneid, where Dido falls in love with, only to be left by, the Trojan hero Aeneas.

"Dido (/ˈdaɪdoʊ/ DY-doh) was, according to ancient Greek and Roman sources, the founder and first Queen of Carthage (in modern-day Tunisia). She is best known from the account given by the Roman poet Virgil in his Aeneid. ...... The person of Dido can be traced to references by Roman historians to lost writings of Timaeus of Tauromenium in Sicily (c. 356–260 BC)."
Wikipedia.org - Dido (Queen of Carthage)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dido_(Queen_of_Carthage)

 

[RHAS]

Haplogroup J2, Phoenicians and Malta.

"One extraordinary group carried their traditions and their chromosomes into the Mediterranean frontier. Were they the Atlantis superheroes of science fiction? No. They do appear to have been more intellectually and artistically advanced than anyone around them in the same time period. Where they settled, they made an impact. Their descendants survived through the ages with aspects of their original ancient identity largely intact until time and assimilation finally absorbed them -- as Sea Peoples and Temple-Builders, later as Minoans and Etruscans, and still later in the great civilizations of Classical Greece and Rome. Original ancestral families of settlers who make up a bridge into civilization are the people we are identifying as The Mediterraneans."
Ancientmed.org - The mediterraneans.
http://www.ancientmed.org/TheMediterraneans.htm

"A Lebanese genetic scientist who has been following in 2007 the genetic footprint of the ancient Phoenician civilisation across the Mediterranean has found that close to one-third of modern-day Maltese share a genetic link with the ancient Phoenicians. Thirty per cent of DNA samples taken from Malta have been found to share a common and ancient genetic marker, known as the J2 haplogroup, with the Phoenician civilisation, which had colonised Malta for much of the first millennium BC."
Blog dei Fenici - One third of Maltese found to have ancient Phoenician DNA.
http://www.blogdeifenici.it/2014/612...hoenician-dna/

"As DNA samples continue to be analyzed, more revelations are surfacing. "We've just received data that more than half of the Y chromosome lineages that we see in today's Maltese population could have come in with the Phoenicians," Wells says. "That's a significant genetic impact. But why?" At this point he can only speculate. "Perhaps the population on Malta wasn't as dense. Perhaps when the Phoenicians settled, they killed off the existing population, and their own descendants became today's Maltese. Maybe the islands never had that many people, and shiploads of Phoenicians literally moved in and swamped the local population. We don't know for sure, but the results are consistent with a settlement of people from the Levant within the past 2,000 years, and that points to the Phoenicians."
National Geographic - In the Wake of the Phoenicians: DNA study reveals a Phoenician-Maltese link
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0410/feature2/online_extra.html

"One of the biggest surprises discovered till now is the genetic relationship between the people of Malta and the people of the Lebanese coast. Genetic similarities between the two groups are so high that they are a cause of amazement and surprise. What this has proven, so far, is the validity of the accounts of Phoenician history, on one hand, against the results of genetic studies in geographical areas of Phoenician colonies, on the other. Genetic studies underway will clear the mystery of the Phoenicians, and perhaps, embarrass many others. It is going to address a struggle over the history and ancestry of Lebanon which used to be thought of as a struggle over myths."
Phoenicia.org - Genetics.
http://phoenicia.org/genetics.html

"Since the swanky London gathering to celebrate the publication of his book The Journey of Man, Wells has been promoted to the august position of "explorer-in-residence" at the National Geographic Society. He isn`t resident much. Eternally wandering, like any good explorer, which is a joint undertaking between the society and IBM. More than anything, this enterprise appears to be a genetic search for our collective identoty as a species. As Wells himself puts it, "In this future-obsessed era, it is important to seize a snapshot of our past before it is lost forever, in order better to understand ourselves and were we are headed." In his view, this snapshot is procured by collecting and comparing DNA from hundreds of thousends of individuals, who represen t all the ethnic and tribal peoples of the world. The project`s ambition is to map in detail how different groups and peoples are related to each other and how they have moved aroud and mixed over the millennia. As reported in the American Journal of Human Genetics, the propject`s geneticists have uncovered that the past`s great sailors, the Phoenicians, are the ancestors of the modern Maltese."
My Beautiful Genome: Discovering Our Genetic Future, One Quirk at a Time.
http://books.google.nl/books?id=Rpa...EwAQ#v=onepage&q=phoenician malta dna&f=false

"They looked at the genetic signatures carried on the Y chromosomes of men from former Phoenician colonies across the Mediterranean. The sites included coastal Lebanon, Cyprus, Crete, Malta, eastern Sicily, southern Sardinia, Ibiza, southern Spain, coastal Tunisia and the city of Tingris in Morocco."
BBC News - DNA legacy of ancient seafarers.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7700356.stm

"The same marker was found in unusually high proportions on other parts of the Mediterranean coast where the Phoenicians are known to have established colonies, such as Carthage in today's Tunisia. It's abundantly present in the Iberian peninsula, Zalloua added. In Malta, the ancient DNA type was found in an extremely high 30 percent of samples, he said. We are seeing a pattern of expansion out of the Levant area along the maritime routes the Phoenicians used he said. The J2 haplogroup has been dated using a calculation based on the rate at which DNA mutates."
Reuters - In Lebanon DNA may yet heal rifts.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/09/10/us-phoenicians-dna-idUSL0559096520070910

 

[RHAS]

Haplogroup J2 and Greeks.

"As for haplogroup J, most Greeks (22.8% Greeks/14.3% Macedonian Greeks) belong to J-M172 and its subclades which is associated with Neolithic population movements."
Mathildas Anthropology Blog - Greek Y chromosomes by Dienekes.
http://mathildasanthropologyblog.wordpress.com/2008/06/10/greek-y-chromosomes-by-dienekes/

 

[LeBrok]

"A Lebanese genetic scientist who has been following in 2007 the genetic footprint of the ancient Phoenician civilisation across the Mediterranean has found that close to one-third of modern-day Maltese share a genetic link with the ancient Phoenicians. Thirty per cent of DNA samples taken from Malta have been found to share a common and ancient genetic marker, known as the J2 haplogroup, with the Phoenician civilisation, which had colonised Malta for much of the first millennium BC."
Blog dei Fenici - One third of Maltese found to have ancient Phoenician DNA.
http://www.blogdeifenici.it/2014/612...hoenician-dna/

This is not a link to this scientific paper you are talking about. All I could gather from this article is that they judged relationship to Phoenicians by J2 marker. It is not good enough. This haplogroup could have arrived to Malta from Greece or Italy as well. It is very likely that most J2 in Malta is indead of Phoenician origin, but this article is not a proof of it, and neither will be this supposed scientific paper. It is just an educated assumption, that's all it is, and as many assumptions it might be wrong.

 

[Angela]

This is not a link to this scientific paper you are talking about. All I could gather from this article is that they judged relationship to Phoenicians by J2 marker. It is not good enough. This haplogroup could have arrived to Malta from Greece or Italy as well. It is very likely that most J2 in Malta is indead of Phoenician origin, but this article is not a proof of it, and neither will be this supposed scientific paper. It is just an educated assumption, that's all it is, and as many assumptions it might be wrong.

So sorry, LeBrok, I meant to acknowledge the helpfulness of your post. I shouldn't read this site while I have my coffee...or rather, I should wait until it kicks in.

Can you fix it?

 

[LeBrok]

So sorry, LeBrok, I meant to acknowledge the helpfulness of your post. I shouldn't read this site while I have my coffee...or rather, I should wait until it kicks in.

Can you fix it?

Nope, but I did it myself few times. No worries.

 

[LeBrok]

@RHAS. Why the hell did you give me negative rating for my last post? It is not even critical to your point of view!!! You must be a vicious small man, who quietly stubs in the back.

 

[RHAS]

Haplogroup J2 and Phoenicians.

"LAU scientist Dr. Pierre Zalloua, who discovered a genetic signature unique to the lost Phoenician civilization and used it to trace its descendants, appeared on the international television news channel CNN earlier this month to present his latest findings. Zalloua, assistant dean for Research at LAU’s School of Medicine, attracted media attention from around the world when he discovered that one in 17 men living in the Mediterranean carried Phoenician genes, indicating that the descendants of the “lost” civilization were alive and well."
Lebanese American University - LAU geneticist’s quest for the Phoenicians makes headlines.
http://www.lau.edu.lb/news-events/news/archive/lau_geneticists_quest_for_the/

"The Neolithic control section shows nonsignificant results across all haplogroups, except for a significant J2 result in one test. The Phoenician-colony test results highlight only one haplogroup, J2, which consistently scores significantly in all three tests across the range of colonization sites. However, this haplogroup also scores significantly in Greek tests (as do some additional haplogroup...s), suggesting that the same haplogroup could have been spread by several expansions, which is unsurprising considering its frequency in the Eastern Mediterranean but implies that higher phylogenetic resolution is required for identification of Phoenician-specific signals."
Identifying Genetic Traces of Historical Expansions: Phoenician Footprints in the Mediterranean.
http://www.cell.com/AJHG/fulltext/S0002-9297(08)00547-8

 

[Aberdeen]

This is not a link to this scientific paper you are talking about. All I could gather from this article is that they judged relationship to Phoenicians by J2 marker. It is not good enough. This haplogroup could have arrived to Malta from Greece or Italy as well. It is very likely that most J2 in Malta is indead of Phoenician origin, but this article is not a proof of it, and neither will be this supposed scientific paper. It is just an educated assumption, that's all it is, and as many assumptions it might be wrong.

I think a bit of scepticism about those conclusions would in fact be quite justified, considering how many people have occupied those lands since the time of the Phoenicians. The J2 in Malta could certainly be Roman, for example. So could the J2 in Lebanon, for that matter, even though it's more likely native Middle Eastern. J2 is one of those haplotypes that originated in the Middle East but spread all around subsequently, so we can't necessarily say how it got to one particular location, unless someone has information on subclades that would suggest a Phoenician rather than Roman origin for the J2 in Malta, for example. But I didn't see that level of information in that article, so I think, as you said, the J2 in Malta could just as easily arrived in Malta from Greece or Italy. I would say it's as likely to be later Arab blood than from the Phoencian period. However, some words seem to inspire magical thinking in some people and "Phoenician" definitely seems to be one of those words.

 

[Maleth]

"A Lebanese genetic scientist who has been following in 2007 the genetic footprint of the ancient Phoenician civilisation across the Mediterranean has found that close to one-third of modern-day Maltese share a genetic link with the ancient Phoenicians. Thirty per cent of DNA samples taken from Malta have been found to share a common and ancient genetic marker, known as the J2 haplogroup, with the Phoenician civilisation, which had colonised Malta for much of the first millennium BC."
Blog dei Fenici - One third of Maltese found to have ancient Phoenician DNA.
http://www.blogdeifenici.it/2014/612...hoenician-dna/

"As DNA samples continue to be analyzed, more revelations are surfacing. "We've just received data that more than half of the Y chromosome lineages that we see in today's Maltese population could have come in with the Phoenicians," Wells says. "That's a significant genetic impact. But why?" At this point he can only speculate. "Perhaps the population on Malta wasn't as dense. Perhaps when the Phoenicians settled, they killed off the existing population, and their own descendants became today's Maltese. Maybe the islands never had that many people, and shiploads of Phoenicians literally moved in and swamped the local population. We don't know for sure, but the results are consistent with a settlement of people from the Levant within the past 2,000 years, and that points to the Phoenicians."
National Geographic - In the Wake of the Phoenicians: DNA study reveals a Phoenician-Maltese link
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0410/feature2/online_extra.html

Hello Rhas. My nick is the word given to the island of Malta. Maleth means harbour or save haven (because of the numerous sheltered harbours around the Island. It is later believed to have been kept by to Romans and by time being called Melita.

These are some facts about present day understanding on the different time frames on the Islands

A) temple building. Malta's oldest temple date back to approx 5600BCE which makes them older than the pyramids of Egypt. There are intense studies at the moment in coloration with the University of Belfast. The temples could be well in connection with the 'old Europe' culture. I am hoping that dna testing will be carried out on the bones found on the site and determine haplogroups. This culture disappeared suddenly and the new studies will reveal why it came to an abrupt end. There are many theories (climate change, disease, erosion and so on) but nothing proved yet. The next evidence of other culture was the Phoenecians.

B) Phoenicians arrived in the 7th century BC. They founded to old captial (present day Mdina) and called it Maleth. As I said earlier the Romans kept the same name but was corrupted by time (Maleth / Melita / Malta). There were two phoenetician temples both close to the main harbours dedicated to Juno and Astarte. One still has its original foundations in the south and the other (documented in Roman writings) was in the entrance in todays grand harbour on the other side of Valletta (Probably where there is the great fort of St Angelo in Birgu). In the temple of the south were found two coloums with both Greek and Phoenician inscriptions (one of them is in the Louvre in Paris) This helped a great deal to decipher the Phoenician language through the Greek

C) during the arab period alhymardi (not sure if I spelt his name correctly) wrote that Malta was an uninhabited island and visited by fishermen and for logging and was inhabited by wild donkeys. This was after the fatimids laid seige on the Byzantines (so again it seems there was another culture meltdown and no continuation between these two well known groups that is the temple builders and the Phoenicians)

D) However Malta was repopulated again during the end of the Arab (870AD to 1091AD) (or more precise the Fatimid period) who occupied Sicily too. The people that repopulated Malta came from Sicily, So the modern day population (that has some 22% J2) would have arrived from Sicily. In fact DNA proves that Maltese DNA is related very closely to South Italy and Sicily according to a study by Capelli et al. Of course these also have large pools of J2 that could mark the Greek or Phoenician elements in both populations but not a continuous one on the Island of Malta (as per the writings left by Hymradi)

E) It used to be believed that Malta holds some ancient form of Phoenician language but nearly all linguists now believe that Maltese is a reminiscent of the Lingua franka spoken in Spain and sicily during the Fatimid occupation, also called siculo arabic. Of course this language has been lost in both Spain and Sicily (some words and place names still evident), but survived in Malta mainly thanks to the British as they fought hard for the Italian Language not to take over the Islands so Maltese became more prevalent. Now both Maltese and English are national languages with Maltese being the only semetic language written in Latin characters in Europe.

I hope this helps.

 

[Maleth]

 

[RHAS]

Haplogroup J2, Phoenicians and Malta.

Haplogroup J2, Phoenicians and Malta.

"A Lebanese genetic scientist who has been following in 2007 the genetic footprint of the ancient Phoenician civilisation across the Mediterranean has found that close to one-third of modern-day Maltese share a genetic link with the ancient Phoenicians. Thirty per cent of DNA samples taken from Malta have been found to share a common and ancient genetic marker, known as the J2 haplogroup, with the Phoenician civilisation, which had colonised Malta for much of the first millennium BC."
Blog dei Fenici - One third of Maltese found to have ancient Phoenician DNA.
http://www.blogdeifenici.it/2014/612...hoenician-dna/

"As DNA samples continue to be analyzed, more revelations are surfacing. "We've just received data that more than half of the Y chromosome lineages that we see in today's Maltese population could have come in with the Phoenicians," Wells says. "That's a significant genetic impact. But why?" At this point he can only speculate. "Perhaps the population on Malta wasn't as dense. Perhaps when the Phoenicians settled, they killed off the existing population, and their own descendants became today's Maltese. Maybe the islands never had that many people, and shiploads of Phoenicians literally moved in and swamped the local population. We don't know for sure, but the results are consistent with a settlement of people from the Levant within the past 2,000 years, and that points to the Phoenicians."
National Geographic - In the Wake of the Phoenicians: DNA study reveals a Phoenician-Maltese link
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0410/feature2/online_extra.html

"One of the biggest surprises discovered till now is the genetic relationship between the people of Malta and the people of the Lebanese coast. Genetic similarities between the two groups are so high that they are a cause of amazement and surprise. What this has proven, so far, is the validity of the accounts of Phoenician history, on one hand, against the results of genetic studies in geographical areas of Phoenician colonies, on the other. Genetic studies underway will clear the mystery of the Phoenicians, and perhaps, embarrass many others. It is going to address a struggle over the history and ancestry of Lebanon which used to be thought of as a struggle over myths."
Phoenicia.org - Genetics.
http://phoenicia.org/genetics.html

"Since the swanky London gathering to celebrate the publication of his book The Journey of Man, Wells has been promoted to the august position of "explorer-in-residence" at the National Geographic Society. He isn`t resident much. Eternally wandering, like any good explorer, which is a joint undertaking between the society and IBM. More than anything, this enterprise appears to be a genetic search for our collective identoty as a species. As Wells himself puts it, "In this future-obsessed era, it is important to seize a snapshot of our past before it is lost forever, in order better to understand ourselves and were we are headed." In his view, this snapshot is procured by collecting and comparing DNA from hundreds of thousends of individuals, who represen t all the ethnic and tribal peoples of the world. The project`s ambition is to map in detail how different groups and peoples are related to each other and how they have moved aroud and mixed over the millennia. As reported in the American Journal of Human Genetics, the propject`s geneticists have uncovered that the past`s great sailors, the Phoenicians, are the ancestors of the modern Maltese."
My Beautiful Genome: Discovering Our Genetic Future, One Quirk at a Time.
http://books.google.nl/books?id=Rpa...EwAQ#v=onepage&q=phoenician malta dna&f=false

"They looked at the genetic signatures carried on the Y chromosomes of men from former Phoenician colonies across the Mediterranean. The sites included coastal Lebanon, Cyprus, Crete, Malta, eastern Sicily, southern Sardinia, Ibiza, southern Spain, coastal Tunisia and the city of Tingris in Morocco."
BBC News - DNA legacy of ancient seafarers
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7700356.stm

"The same marker was found in unusually high proportions on other parts of the Mediterranean coast where the Phoenicians are known to have established colonies, such as Carthage in today's Tunisia. It's abundantly present in the Iberian peninsula, Zalloua added. In Malta, the ancient DNA type was found in an extremely high 30 percent of samples, he said. We are seeing a pattern of expansion out of the Levant area along the maritime routes the Phoenicians used he said. The J2 haplogroup has been dated using a calculation based on the rate at which DNA mutates."
Reuters - In Lebanon DNA may yet heal rifts.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/09/10/us-phoenicians-dna-idUSL0559096520070910

Video Part.3 - The Phoenician Imprint.
By Spencer Wells, geneticist and an Explorer-in-Residence at the National Geographic Society, Professor at Cornell University, leader of The Genographic Project.
"Surprisingly, more then 50% Malta's Y-Chromosome (male DNA) came from the Phoenicians. According to history, archeology and DNA, all points to the "Phoenicians" were the first to inhabit Malta."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZjF5IfuML0

"We reconstructed the genetic structure of the Levantines and found that a pre-Islamic expansion Levant was more genetically similar to Europeans than to Middle Easterners."
Genome-Wide Diversity in the Levant Reveals Recent Structuring by Culture.
http://www.plosgenetics.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pgen.1003316

 

[Aberdeen]

So basically, in terms of proving that the J2 on Malta is Phoenician rather than being from the Romans or Sicilians or from the Arab occupation, all you've got is someone saying "could be". Not very conclusive. If these "researchers" have subclade information that the more technically minded on this forum could dissect, we might have a yes or no, but at this point all we have is some folks with Phoenician fantasies and "could be".

 

[Echetlaeus]

In my humble opinion, the migration of people and sample selection issues must be taken into consideration in these studies.

Let me be more clear. For example Athens 2 centuries ago did not have more than 2500 houses, as Eleni Glykatzi-Arveler points out. After the liberation of Greece from the Ottomans, many people "flew" to the new capital. Eventually Athens ended up with more than 4 million inhabitants as for today, mostly peopled that migrated from their villages or smaller towns.

Hence, if someone wants to have more robust results about the genome, has to trace also (as much as he can) the history of their ancestors.

 

[LeBrok]

Video Part.3 - The Phoenician Imprint. By Spencer Wells, geneticist and an Explorer-in-Residence at the National Geographic Society, Professor at Cornell University, leader of The Genographic Project.

"Surprisingly, more then 50% Malta's Y-Chromosome (male DNA) came from the Phoenicians. According to history, archeology and DNA, all points to the "Phoenicians" were the first to inhabit Malta."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZjF5IfuML0

A little bit better, although this was 2007 study, and they promise to increase sumple size. Did they? Any updates from them? Where is the paper about this study?
However he doesn't say anything about 1/3 of population of Malta being Phoenician J2 type. He only says that there is (autosomal?) genetic connection with Near East and he speculates about Phoenicians being the source. He admits that possibly the source might be Neolithic.

 

[LeBrok]

NOTE!

2. MUTUAL RESPECT

a. We have built the Eupedia Forum on mutual respect. Feel at home and behave as if this forum is yours. Indeed, before you post, pretend you run this forum: would you accept the message you intend to publish on your own forum? We encourage controversial discussion as long as you show respect to other members and their views/opinions.


Avoid flaming and other offensive or profane behaviour. Don't launch personal attacks.

Could you point me to this flaming and my offensive behaviour.

3. KEEP YOUR POSTS FRIENDLY

So if I don't agree with your opinion, it means I'm not friendly?

4. STAY ON TOPIC

Avoid posting messages that are out of context or irrelevant to a topic. While we encourage your participation, such posts will either be moved to another forum or deleted in order to ensure a thread's consistency. If you do want to write a post that is too off topic you can always start a new thread.

What about post #45, it was in friendly tone, on topic, valid critique of the article you attached? And yet I got a negative rating. Do I need to kiss your ars any time I want to discuss anything in your threads? And only then I'm friendly?

You are just unreasonable and mean person.

You missed this:
We encourage controversial discussion as long as you show respect to other members and their views/opinions.

 

[RHAS]

Haplogroup J2 and Phoenicians.

In "Quest for the Phoenicians," three renowned scientists, National Geographic Explorer-in-Residence and oceanographer Robert Ballard, geneticist Spencer Wells and archaeologist Paco Giles, search for clues about the Phoenicians in the sea, in the earth and in the blood of their modern-day descendents... Ballard looks at ancient shipwrecks along Skerki Bank off the island of Sicily... Paco Giles excavates a cave at the bottom of the rock of Gibraltar... Spencer Wells collects DNA from a 2,500-year-old Phoenician mummy's tooth, to extract its unique genetic code and compare it with DNA samples collected from men and women from Lebanon to Tunisia.

Sarcofagus, Sidonian King Tabnit

It was reported in the PBS description of the National Geographic TV Special on this study entitled "Quest for the Phoenicians" that ancient DNA was included in this study as extracted from the tooth of a 2500 year-old Phoenician mummy.

King Tabnit remains.

"Recent DNA (Y chromosome) studies conducted by the National Geographic Magazine on the bones of ancient Phoenicians and living people from Syria, Lebanon and elsewhere in the Mediterranean have shown that the modern peoples carry the same ancient Phoenician genetic material. Further, the Phoenician bloodline has been proven to come from an ancient Mediterranean sub-stratum."
New World Encyclopedia - Phoenician Civilization.
http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Phoenician_Civilization

"The reference of the genetic prototype for the Phoenician makeup is based on human remains discovered in Turkey, as well as a human jaw—perhaps up to 4,000 years old—found in a mountain cave at Raskifa, Lebanon. Additional human remains are used, as well, for constructing a clear image of the Phoenician genetic point of reference."
Phoenicia.org - Genetics.
http://phoenicia.org/genetics.html

"Sidon Kralı Tabnit'in İstanbul Arkeoloji Müzesi'ndeki mumyasının sırlarını, alınan azıdişi ve derisinin DNA testleri çözecek. İstanbul Arkeoloji Müzesi'nde bulunan Sidon Kralı Tabnit'e ait mumyadan bir azıdişiyle iki parça deri, DNA testi yapılmak üzere alındı. Müzede özel bir odada saklanan Tabnit ile yıllardır müzenin deposunda tutulan esrarlı çocuk mumyasını Milliyet görüntüledi. National Geographic televizyonu bir belgesel için aralıkta müzede çekim yaptı. Belgesel kapsamında Kral Tabnit'in dönemindeki hastalıklar, yaşı, hangi millete ait özellikler taşıdığı ve ölüm nedeninin araştırılması için mumyanın bir azıdişi ile derisinden küçük birer parça deri alındı. Analiz ve kan testleri Beyrut Amerikan Üniversitesi'nde, DNA testleri Leipzig veya Oxford Laboratuvarı'nda yapılacak."
Milliyet - 'Lanetli Kral Tabnit' in mumyasına DNA testi.
http://www.milliyet.com.tr/2004/04/13/yasam/yas04.html

 

[LeBrok]

Did anyone analyzed ancient phoenician DNA?

 

[Sile]

Did anyone analyzed ancient phoenician DNA?

Is there an issue with Rhas links? I find them plausible.

IIRC, phoenicians where J1, J2, T and E

NatGen state there are less than 9% of phoenicians in the world today based on genetics ............I cannot find this data, I only saw it on a program and also one of their magazines