Politics Here we go again: Right wing nationalism on the rise again in Europe

[ROS]

I insist unfortunately prostitutes are everywhere.

 

[LABERIA]

I insist unfortunately prostitutes are everywhere.

Yes, but the best prostitutes in the world are in Russia, Putin himself said this.

 

[Yetos]

Yes, but the best prostitutes in the world are in Russia, Putin himself said this.

I insist unfortunately prostitutes are everywhere.

Ramstein song, 'Moscow'
Ramstein song 'Te quiero .....'
Ramstein song 'Das model' Kraftwerk remaster

 

[gyms]

Because it is racism and it is wrong! Why is it wrong? Because it creates conflicts and killed millions of people around the world through centuries!!! Besides, if you believe in this, you can't be Christian. Christ embraced, helped and taught to love, all people of all races and religions. What kind of Christian are you?
What not to understand? You subscribe to tribalism, one of basic human social instincts. In your case, the instinct is very pronounced. Simple like this. We don't need psychologist, new hypothesis or supernatural world to explain it. Everybody has it in some degree, me too. In your case, it is extreme, and I know many people like you. And it is hard for them to find themselves in today's shrinking world and feel good about future. I know how it works. And I know it is not good for the world, or for personal health and future. This way of thinking turned catastrophic in its consequences in 20 century when over 100 millions people died just in Europe. From the hatred of the other "tribe", which means nation, religion and subrace. Tribalism didn't bring anything good in the modern world. It is bad.

The problem for you however is that tribalism is in conflict with Christ teaching. If you want to subscribe to tribalism, you can't be christian, period!

"Because it is racism and it is wrong!"

Enjoy the movie!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UC2VQjSgpso

Have a great time!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AediQLpoGGM

 

[Northener]

In Hungarian elections, 70% of the vote went to right wing nationalist parties.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-43693663

Well, in their case, their last really "autochthonous" government was a fascist one, so there you go.

Generally speaking there is an uphheal of right wing populist party's all over Europe.
Beneath that there are differences....
For Hungary there a specific factors like the decline in some area's, young talented people moving to the west etc. The idea with fall of the own curtain the differences with NW Europe would more and more disappear is on the whole did not come through. I guess the idea being in decline is a big factor behind this all.
And don't forget that the revolt in the sixties was in Eastern Europe to defend national rights against the Sovjet Union. In the West it was more flower power like.
As a result the biggest right wing populist party of the Netherlands is defending gay rights in a way that would be impossible in Eastern Europe or even in the US (Trump).

 

[gyms]

Once again for you,Ygorcs:

Ygocs:"...they don't experience any significant population replacement AT ALL, and all the objective data confirm that (those fantasy scenarios of agenda-driven nutcases don't matter)."

Just wait,Ygorcs!

At the end of the 15th century, Hungary had been one of the strongest and richest countries of Europe. During the reign of Matthias Corvinus, which ended in 1490, the population was about the same as that of England: four million, of which 75 to 80 per cent were of Magyar stock. When the Hungarian Diet tried to compile data on the survivors in 1720, the population of Hungary was found to be 1,770,000 and 800,000 in Transylvania. But the number of Magyars was as low as 45 per cent.
http://www.hungarianhistory.com/lib/hunspir/hsp25.htm

Ygorcs:"...HOWEVER it's also demonstrated that many Eastern European states where panic against immigration is even higher than in the West are being really over the top and choosing it as a convenient priority to divert people's attention from much more structural and chronic problems that are entirely internal (and, of course, are inconvenient to powerful politicians because they were caused in a large part by the policies enacted by those politicians in the past)."

"demonstrated"???!
You have no clue about Central and Eastern Europe!

BUDAPEST — Forget the politics for a moment — check out the economics.
Central and Eastern EU members are in Brussels’ bad books over democratic and legal standards but their economies have become some of the bloc’s star performers.




Romania was the fastest growing economy in the EU last year, with an estimated GDP growth rate of 6.4 percent. Poland, the Czech Republic and Hungary are also growing more quickly than major economies in Western Europe and boast low unemployment. Of the 12 EU members forecast to grow by 3 percent or more this year, nine are former communist countries in the east of the Continent, according to the European Commission.
https://www.politico.eu/article/central-and-eastern-eu-gdp-growth-economies/


[h=2]Ministry for National Economy[/h][h=3]Mihály Varga[/h][h=4]Minister for National Economy[/h]http://www.kormany.hu/en/ministry-f...ook-for-2018-even-better-than-in-former-years

 

[Ailchu]

i can't speak for eastern europe but the rise of the right wing nationalism definitly has to do with the recent refugee crisis. by searching for another thread i found this youtuber from syria with a nice video about it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31ven41DAcI
ignore the bad jokes.$
very important point at 3:19.
also 5:10 but thats better for the other thread.
you can't say that eastern europes swing to the right has nothing to do with what is happening in western europe. its exactly this carelessness and naivity of western europe mentioned in the video. they see it and they do not want it. that's why they vote for orban even though there aren't many refugees in their countries.

 

[firetown]

Why is this forum allowing man-made "phenomena" to outgrow genetic research?

 

[Ygorcs]

For Hungary there a specific factors like the decline in some area's, young talented people moving to the west etc. The idea with fall of the own curtain the differences with NW Europe would more and more disappear is on the whole did not come through. I guess the idea being in decline is a big factor behind this all.

This is exactly my point: what is most sad and nonsense about all this alarmist focus on the immigration and refugee issue (most often with undeniable racial and ethnic overtones) is that they aren't really putting all these things that you call "decline" (emigration of talented youth, lack of economic perspectives, people not being able to afford a family etc.) as a priority of public policy and political debates. It's an easy scapegoating, much more convenient than the deeper, more complicated real thing, and in fact even before immigration.

When we look the poltical news there, we could think they are the extremely developed nation of Germany receiving 1 million refugees in 2015-16, and not countries with some chronic internal problems more akin to emerging nations AND without any massive and urgent problem with the number of refugees and economic migrants settling there. As far as I can see, it's all a whole lot of political manipulation, politicized strawmen fallacies and diversion from more structural problems that they in fact don't have good proposals on how to solve, or are themselves part of the problem.

 

[Ygorcs]

At the end of the 15th century, Hungary had been one of the strongest and richest countries of Europe. During the reign of Matthias Corvinus, which ended in 1490, the population was about the same as that of England: four million, of which 75 to 80 per cent were of Magyar stock. When the Hungarian Diet tried to compile data on the survivors in 1720, the population of Hungary was found to be 1,770,000 and 800,000 in Transylvania. But the number of Magyars was as low as 45 per cent.
http://www.hungarianhistory.com/lib/hunspir/hsp25.htm

That was a slaughter, a horrible depopulation anything, but certainly not a population replacement by the Turks. If it had happened, modern-day Hungary would have a Turkic majority or at least a plurality, and of course it does not. Those Turks were not migrating en masse to that country, nor did they make, in the long term, any significant ethnic replacement. Never mind that you're bringing war-related facts that happened several centuries ago to a discussion about refugee crisis and immigration waves happening in the 2nd decade of the 21st century. Other circumstances, other causes, an entirely different time. Just a bit of anacronistic paranoia, right?

 

[Angela]

Many European nations, Hungary included, have a history of scapegoating other people and other events for their problems. Old habits die hard, I guess.

I don't know the origin. My reading of Russian history, for example, is that it is endemic in the Russian world view. It's indeed a form of paranoia where everyone, the west (the dreaded "Latin" religion too), the east, the Jews, are all out to destroy Mother Russia.

It also seems to be present in other Eastern European countries and in the Balkans as well, although not only in those places.

I find it very strange. I also think it's not a productive way to view the world.

 

[bicicleur 2]

Many European nations, Hungary included, have a history of scapegoating other people and other events for their problems. Old habits die hard, I guess.
I don't know the origin. My reading of Russian history, for example, is that it is endemic in the Russian world view. It's indeed a form of paranoia where everyone, the west (the dreaded "Latin" religion too), the east, the Jews, are all out to destroy Mother Russia.
It also seems to be present in other Eastern European countries and in the Balkans as well, although not only in those places.
I find it very strange. I also think it's not a productive way to view the world.

In every country there are dissident political parties who don't have a viable programm. Their only attraction is that they are against the established parties.
The worse the ruling gevernment delivers, the more popular these parties become.
Now parties focusing on immigration are popular.
That is because Europe does not have a decent immigration policy, and political establishment has presented immigration as something positive per se, which is not. The way immigration in Europe was handled the last decades is simply selfdestructive.
Immigration can be positive, but then it has to be selective and well-organised. It must be a positive experience for both immigrants and natives.

 

[halfalp]

Because I don't like liars, demagogues and manipulative politicians who try to hide the deeper problems of their own societies under the carpet to have easier and better electoral gains and avoid being pressured into discussing and proposing concrete and more elaborate solutions - which they don't have at all - instead of such an easy excuse as scapegoating some outsider group, potentially even harming other people (no matter if they are a massive population or a tiny minority). Much less I do like them when all those upsetting things come together into the same people. I think those are more than enough reasons for anyone who enjoyes reasonableness, honesty and truth to be upset about it.

Demagogy is literally the pendant of Democracy. So for you outsiders groups dont put more problems into the actual endemic problems of a society ? Because this is actually the point that makes European go crazy. Why would you engrow the nation problems with problematic peoples that are not even of your cultural and societal sphere.

 

[gyms]

Is there any international convention,treaty that obligate Hungary or any other country to receive illegal immigrants?!
I am aware,however,that this is a left-liberal political hysteria.It's a blady neo-marxist agenda...
with many supporters on this forum.

 

[gyms]

[h=3]THIS IS ONE OF EUROPE’S BEST KEPT SECRETS[/h] They make a strong contribution to the linguistic and cultural diversity of Europe. Together with other Europeans they want to define the future of Europe; a future in which not only large languages or dominant cultures, but also minorities are taken into account. Therefore they want protection and support for the preservation of their identity. This is what the Minority SafePack Initiative calls for.
http://www.minority-safepack.eu/

More than four years ago, the members of the Federal Union of European Nationalities (FUEN) started preparations for a European Citizens’ Initiative. The project is the most important initiative of the minorities in Europe in recent decades. Started with much optimism and political support, the initiative was taken before the European Court of Justice, after the European Commission rejected the initiative in September 2013. According to the European Commission, the proposed initiative fell “manifestly outside the framework of the Commission’s powers”.
https://www.fuen.org/key-topics/european-citizens-initiative/




End discrimination of European minorities !
http://www.e-f-a.org/services/news-...]=1119&cHash=ddb6285d226a4a9db2fa293c11cd3d11

 

[A. Papadimitriou]

THIS IS ONE OF EUROPE’S BEST KEPT SECRETS

They make a strong contribution to the linguistic and cultural diversity of Europe. Together with other Europeans they want to define the future of Europe; a future in which not only large languages or dominant cultures, but also minorities are taken into account. Therefore they want protection and support for the preservation of their identity. This is what the Minority SafePack Initiative calls for.
http://www.minority-safepack.eu/

More than four years ago, the members of the Federal Union of European Nationalities (FUEN) started preparations for a European Citizens’ Initiative. The project is the most important initiative of the minorities in Europe in recent decades. Started with much optimism and political support, the initiative was taken before the European Court of Justice, after the European Commission rejected the initiative in September 2013. According to the European Commission, the proposed initiative fell “manifestly outside the framework of the Commission’s powers”.
https://www.fuen.org/key-topics/european-citizens-initiative/




End discrimination of European minorities !
http://www.e-f-a.org/services/news-...]=1119&cHash=ddb6285d226a4a9db2fa293c11cd3d11

I don't know what would you say if there was a separatist movement in your country or what will you say when immigrant groups start claiming they should have similar rights with 'minorities'.

 

[gyms]

I don't know what would you say if there was a separatist movement in your country or what will you say when immigrant groups start claiming they should have similar rights with 'minorities'.

Are all the 50 million European minorities separatists? Illegal immigrants are not indigenous "minorities".

BTW your "argument" is a typical strow man argument.


https://www.britannica.com/event/Treaty-of-Trianon

 

[halfalp]

Is there any international convention,treaty that obligate Hungary or any other country to receive illegal immigrants?!
I am aware,however,that this is a left-liberal political hysteria.It's a blady neo-marxist agenda...
with many supporters on this forum.

Young liberal-leftists are mainly of upper society and family, with good education ( not intelligence ) and a high propension to dedicate their life on pleasures like drug and sex. They are not really the kind of people that makes the world go on. Like LeBrok said we are probably scared, it's way more easy to call out christians and conservtards that are civilized and associated with the society, than to go against islam or barbarians. He probably never go into a fight in is entire life, but he is woke and have a very different opinion on courage and boldness.

 

[A. Papadimitriou]

Are all the 50 million European minorities separatists? Illegal immigrants are not indigenous "minorities".

BTW your "argument" is a typical strow man argument.


https://www.britannica.com/event/Treaty-of-Trianon

I some countries there are separatists, like Spain for example.

I am pretty sure there was not any argument in my post. Not even a position.

I believe you haven't considered what may happen after some decades with groups of unassimilated immigrants.

At least concerning Greece, a NGO called 'Minority Rights Group International' has already done that. They have considered one group of immigrants (the largest one) a 'minority'. If those are a minority then those from Bangladesh, for example, should be too.

 

[gyms]

Angela:
"Many European nations, Hungary included, have a history of scapegoating other people and other events for their problems. Old habits die hard, I guess."

Like Italy.
Benito Mussolini. Mussolini was born in Predappio in 1883, the son of a blacksmith. Originally a socialist who had fled to Switzerland to avoid being drafted into the Italian military, Mussolini returned to Italy in 1904 and in 1919 he formed Italy's Fascist Party. As unemployment soared and Italy descended into political anarchy, Mussolini's Fascist Party slowly gained support by running on a vehemently nationalist platform, winning 35 seats in the 1921 elections.
https://study.com/academy/lesson/the-rise-of-benito-mussolini-and-italian-fascism.html