How can IE migration be explained without mentioning Seima Turbino?

[johen]

Sarmatian spirals:

Золото сарматских вождей

ГМИИ им. А.С. Пушкина показал совершенно потрясающую выставку «Золото сарматских вождей», на которой впервые представлены уникальные памятники Филипповских курганов – наследия кочевников-сарматов из фондов Уфимского федерального исследовательского центра Российской Академии наук (УФИЦ РАН) и…

bogachkova1957.livejournal.com

Wooden single-plane figures of a deer, bound with gold plates. Gold, silver, wood. Mound No. 1.

The rim of a vessel depicts a rider on a horse. Gold. Mound No. 1. UFITs RAS.


Okunevo spiral patterns on deers:

Sanxingdui spirals at china bronze:

 

[johen]

Why are you attached to Selma-turbino N1a1 to steal other people's culture? To show R's poor self-esteem?

watch your language. The content rating on all my post is PG-13.

 

[ZZZZ1111]

watch your language. The content rating on all my post is PG-13.

You are the weakest among all NOPQR，probably weaker than O1

 

[johen]

"The Pir Panjal is a mountain range situated in the western part of the Lesser Himalayas extending from the east-southeast to west-northwest across the border of Himachal Pradesh and Jammu and Kashmir. The sights are awesome: lofty peaks rising to the heights of up to 4,000 meters above the sea level, swift-flowing streams and deep-set valleys overgrown with cedars and scattered tiny houses surrounded by little fields.
In June 2017, this was the site of a Russian-Indian archaeological expedition launched to find and describe stone horses, enigmatic statues lost in remote mountain areas"

Riders lost in the Himalayas

The Pir Panjal is a mountain range situated in the western part of the Lesser Himalayas extending from the east-southeast to west-northwest across the border of Himachal Pradesh and Jammu and Kashmir. The sights are awesome: lofty peaks rising to the heights of up to 4,000 meters above the sea...

scfh.ru

A bronze human head unearthed from Sanxingdui. (From the official website of Sanxingdui Museum)

三星堆出土文物为什么体量特别大？又为何大多是碎片？请听专家解开谜团

三星堆出土文物为什么体量特别大？又为何大多是碎片？请听专家解开谜团

finance.sina.com.cn

https://kknews.cc/culture/l25n68e.html

 

[johen]

Sarmatian spirals:

Золото сарматских вождей

ГМИИ им. А.С. Пушкина показал совершенно потрясающую выставку «Золото сарматских вождей», на которой впервые представлены уникальные памятники Филипповских курганов – наследия кочевников-сарматов из фондов Уфимского федерального исследовательского центра Российской Академии наук (УФИЦ РАН) и…

bogachkova1957.livejournal.com

Wooden single-plane figures of a deer, bound with gold plates. Gold, silver, wood. Mound No. 1.

The rim of a vessel depicts a rider on a horse. Gold. Mound No. 1. UFITs RAS.


Okunevo spiral patterns on deers:

Sanxingdui spirals at china bronze:

Miletus, Sub-Mycenaean pottery

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]Description[/TD]
[TD]Miletus, Sub-Mycenaean pottery[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Miletus, Sub-Mycenaean pottery - Livius

www.livius.org

snake worship at middle east:

Snake motif on Bronze Age pottery from Rumailah, Al Ain.

1,300bc - 700bc

saruq-alhadid-booklet-english-2022
PDF (www.dm.gov.ae)

vs

"Drawing of three bronze ornaments: a) Karasuk culture c. 1400–1200 BC, diameter around 100mm Abakan Museum; b) Shimao 2000–1800 BC, diameter around 120mm, private museum in Shenmu; c) excavated at Taosi, diameter around 125mm Shanxi province (drawing by John Rawson)."

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/antiquity/article/shimao-and-erlitou-new-perspectives-on-the-origins-of-the-bronze-industry-in-central-china/672573C3699701D312E7D2286B973D5F

"In northern northeast Thailand, bracelets like these were by far the most popular metal object, and almost all of them were made of a tin-bronze alloy. A few hundred kilometers south to another prehistoric site, bangles weren’t all that prominent. (Image: The Ban Chiang Project)"
https://penntoday.upenn.edu/news/Pe...acts-Thailand-challenge-archaeological-theory

la tene culture:

number 20 in okunevo culture:

https://arheologija.ru/hlobyistina-proishozhdenie-i-razvitie-kulturyi-ranney-bronzyi-yuzhnoy-sibiri/

 

[johen]

^
Shell Disc Saruq Al-Hadid

https://colorsandstones.eu/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/image-137-370x400.png

vs

Sanauli triangle patterns:

Qijia culture with the same triangle patterns (seima turbino culture reached):

 

[johen]

1,300bc - 700bc

saruq-alhadid-booklet-english-2022
PDF (www.dm.gov.ae)

vs

"Drawing of three bronze ornaments: a) Karasuk culture c. 1400–1200 BC, diameter around 100mm Abakan Museum; b) Shimao 2000–1800 BC, diameter around 120mm, private museum in Shenmu; c) excavated at Taosi, diameter around 125mm Shanxi province (drawing by John Rawson)."
https://www.cambridge.org/core/jour...entral-china/672573C3699701D312E7D2286B973D5F

"In northern northeast Thailand, bracelets like these were by far the most popular metal object, and almost all of them were made of a tin-bronze alloy. A few hundred kilometers south to another prehistoric site, bangles weren’t all that prominent. (Image: The Ban Chiang Project)"
https://penntoday.upenn.edu/news/Pe...acts-Thailand-challenge-archaeological-theory

la tene culture:

number 20 in okunevo culture:

https://arheologija.ru/hlobyistina-proishozhdenie-i-razvitie-kulturyi-ranney-bronzyi-yuzhnoy-sibiri/

celtic:

Three Rings, Celtic Ring Money, Black Sea Region, c. 800 - 100 B.C.

CE69204. Lot of 3 Celtic Ring Money Knobby Black Sea Region Types Topalov p. 88; Bronze , Topalov Apollonia I p. 88, Victoor -, (1) numerous knobs, 18.176g, 40.6mm; (2) same, 17.108g, 36.1mm; (3) 5 groups of three knobs, 17.009g, 45.2mm

www.forumancientcoins.com

Iran ca. 9th century BCE:

Bracelet | Iran | Iron Age II, Hasanlu Period IV | The Metropolitan Museum of Art

1960, excavated under the direction of Robert H. Dyson Jr. on behalf of the Hasanlu Project sponsored by the University Museum of the University of Pennsylvania, the Archaeological Service of Iran, and The Metropolitan Museum of Art; acquired by the Museum in 1961, as a result of its financial...

www.metmuseum.org

Azerbaijan

Preliminary X-ray Fluorescence Analysis of Metallic Samples from the Chovdar Necropolis in Azerbaijan

Several samples coming from the recently discovered (February 2019) Late Bronze Age/Early Iron Age Chovdar necropolis in Azerbaijan were analysed using the X-ray fluorescence (XRF) technique. The analysis allowed a preliminary classification of the samples in eight groups based on their...

www.mdpi.com

 

[johen]

shimao shaft tomb:

"The 15 pit tombs can be divided into two areas, north and south, of which the southern area has a higher level of tombs, with rounded corners and rectangular planes, and the tomb area is generally more than 10 square meters, with a depth of 3.5 meters to 4 meters."

Archaeologists discover noble-exclusive cemetery at ancient Shimao site in China

A noble-exclusive cemetery with stone walls and rows of burials was discovered at the Shimao site in Shenmu city, Yulin, Shaanxi province, which is evidence of an early-stage country.

govt.chinadaily.com.cn

Mycenaean shaft tomb:

------

- mogou shaft and side chamber grave at Qijia (seima turbino culture) at china:

- catacomb culture shaft and side chamber grave:

- ancient mexican tombs:

The location of ANE admixture steppe-people to meet Caucasus people. EHG or WHSG or the other ANE-admixture people had different languages?

1. genetics :

"We thus propose the following hypothesis: that CLV cline people migrated southwards ca. 4400BCE, or about a millennium before the appearance of the Yamnaya, (admixing with different substratum populations along the way) and then westwards before finally reaching Central Anatolia."

"...points to the North Caucasus-Lower Volga area as the homeland of Indo-Anatolian languages and to the Serednii Stih archaeological culture of the Dnipro-Don area as the homeland of Indo-European languages."

2. Alexander Kozintsev belief. Archaeologically Ural east people had contacted Caspian S-E from Meso to Eneolitic. Now he changed the location to altai.

3. according to Kortlandt

"If we can identify Indo-Hittite and Indo-European with the beginning and the end of the Sredny Stog culture, respectively, it will be clear that the linguistic evidence from our family does not lead us beyond Gimbutas’ secondary homeland and that the Khvalynsk culture on the middle Volga and the Maykop culture in the northern Caucasus cannot be identified with the Indo-Europeans. Any proposal which goes beyond the Sredny Stog culture must start from the possible affinities of Indo-European with other language families. It is usually recognized that the best candidate in this respect is the Uralic language family, while further connections with the Altaic languages and perhaps even Dravidian are possible. The hypothesis that Indo-European is genetically related to a Caucasian language family or to Afro-Asiatic seems much less probable to me. What we do have to take into account is the typological similarity of Proto-Indo-European to the North-West Caucasian languages. If this similarity can be attributed to areal factors, we may think of Indo-European as a branch of Uralo-Altaic which was transformed under the influence of a Caucasian substratum. It now appears that this view is actually supported by the archaeological evidence. If it is correct, we may locate the earliest ancestors of the speakers of Proto-Indo-European north of the Caspian Sea in the seventh millennium (cf. Mallory 1989: 192f.). This is essentially in agreement with Gimbutas’ theory. [Cf. now Kortlandt 1989.]"

 

[johen]

Pazyryk culture :

Griffon, ornament of horse harness. Tumulus 1, Ak-Alakha-1 burial site

The big felt carpet (GE # 1687-95). Fifth Pazyryk Tumulus. On left is a fragment with a goddess. On the right is a fragment with a horseman. State Hermitage, St. Petersburg

The Pazyryk: Culture through faces

Pazyryk culture has been studied for over 150 years. Throughout this time, the main objects of investigation have been artifacts and objects of art – everything the archaeologists managed to discover at burial sites: above-ground structures and tumulus frameworks, hollowed-out logs and funeral...

scfh.ru

Sanxingdui :

https://www.sxckg.com/h-nd-42.html

 

[johen]

^

vs

A TRIO OF GRIFFINS FROM OLYMPIA:

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSE5Mlzb_oH4LljUZ7GzOXYHvczhaU8Tjgvyl3_ffCHRg&s

 

[johen]

Pazyryk culture:

Скифский звериный стиль.

Скифская культура – это самобытная культура огромного мира земледельческих, кочевых и полукочевы...

ru-sled.ru

vs

sanxingdui

ÈýÐǶÑΪʲô²»ÍÚÁË ÍÚ¾ò±£»¤¼¼Êõ²»¹»³ÉÊì(ÏÖ½ñ¼¼ÊõÍ»ÆÆ)_̽ÃØÖ¾ÊÖ»ú°æ

ÈýÐǶÑ×Ô1929Äê±»·¢ÏÖ£¬1934Äêʱ»ªÎ÷´óѧ²©Îï¹Ý×é³ÉµÄ¿¼¹Å¶ÓÊ×´ÎС·¶Î§·¢¾òÁËÈýÐǶÑÒÅÖ·£¬´ËºóÔÚ°ËÊ®¶àÄêµ±Öн½ÐøÐø½øÐÐÁËÊ®¶à´ÎÍÚ¾ò¡£Ã÷Ã÷ÈýÐǶѿÉÒÔ½øÐÐÉîÈëÑо¿£¬±Ï¾¹Ëü´ø¸øÎÒÃÇÈç´Ë¶àµÄÃÕÍÅ£¬ÍÚ¾òµÄÔ½¶àÔ½ÓÐÖúÓÚÀí½âÈýÐǶÑÎÄÃ÷£¬ÄÇôΪʲô²»ÍÚÁËÄØ?

m.tanmizhi.com

 

[johen]

Hittite sun disk:

Finds from Alacahöyük in the Museum of Anatolian Civilizations in Ankara

Alacahöyük is an important archaeological site, located near the village of Alacahüyük in the Alaca District of Çorum Province in Turkey. It documents the existence of a major Neolithic and Hittite settlement. The uppermost layers also show elements of Phrygian, Roman, and Ottoman times. The...

turkisharchaeonews.net

vs

sanxingdui turtle back(?)

"A turtle-back grid taken at the No. 7 "Sacrificial Pit"."

确认三星堆祭祀坑年代 新发现小祭祀坑群-宁夏新闻网

记者6月13日从在四川广汉召开的三星堆遗址考古发掘阶段性成果新闻通气会上获悉，三星堆遗址新发现6座祭祀坑的考古发掘工作已进入收尾阶段，6座坑共计出土编号文物近13000件，其中相对完整的文物3155件。

www.nxnews.net

 

[ZZZZ1111]

No,haplogroup R1b2 tocharians just produced some sex slaves for Chinese brothals in Tang dynasty,conquered nothing,sanxingdui had none of your R,in fact,no R with TMRCA surpass 1000 years muslims era

 

[ZZZZ1111]

Ancient DNA from Gaoshan City, Majiayao and Yangshao have all been published, and Sanxingdui and central plain Shijiahe have a common artistic style. Do ancient Egypt and European R have a common artistic style? I don’t think so. I have a hunch that the Pharaoh’s R is also a forgery, and all the R1b samples in ancient Egypt were probably fake

 

[ZZZZ1111]

赫梯太阳盘：

Finds from Alacahöyük in the Museum of Anatolian Civilizations in Ankara

Alacahöyük is an important archaeological site, located near the village of Alacahüyük in the Alaca District of Çorum Province in Turkey. It documents the existence of a major Neolithic and Hittite settlement. The uppermost layers also show elements of Phrygian, Roman, and Ottoman times. The...

turkisharchaeonews.net

对比

三星堆龟背(?)

“七号‘祭祀坑’处拍摄的龟背网格。”

确认三星堆祭祀坑年代 新发现小祭祀坑群-宁夏新闻网

记者6月13日从在四川广汉召开的三星堆遗址考古发掘阶段性成果新闻通气会上获悉，三星堆遗址新发现6座祭祀坑的考古发掘工作已进入收尾阶段，6座坑共计出土编号文物近13000件，其中相对完整的文物3155件。

www.nxnews.net

Turtle shell,haha,need not to go to turkey to find clue,There are sanxingdui idol at lingjiatan culture,and idols of sanxingdui in lingjiatan culture,turtle shell tool goes back as early to Jiahu culture

 

[johen]

- "The World Turtle in Hindu mythology is known as Akūpāra (Sanskrit: अकूपार), or sometimes Chukwa. An example of a reference to the World Turtle in Hindu literature is found in Jñānarāja (the author of Siddhantasundara, writing c. 1500): "A vulture, whichever has only little strength, rests in the sky holding a snake in its beak for a prahara [three hours]. Why can [the deity] in the form of a tortoise, who possesses an inconceivable potency, not hold the Earth in the sky for a kalpa [billions of years]?"[1] The British philosopher John Locke made reference to this in his 1689 tract, An Essay Concerning Human Understanding, which compares one who would say that properties inhere in "substance" to the Indian, who said the world was on an elephant, which was on a tortoise, "but being again pressed to know what gave support to the broad-backed tortoise, replied—something, he knew not what".[2]

- "Illustration of a Classic Veracruz stone altar relief at El Tajín. As part of the scene of rulers coming to power; in the lower centre is a throne under which stands a turtle as symbol of the earth."

- The Sanskrit word 'Kurma' (Devanagari: कूर्म) means 'Tortoise' and 'Turtle' :

- sanxingdui:

Above: This is a person in a mussel shell (two mussel shells on the back, stepping on a turtle under his feet), Sanxingdui jade, source: "Samsung Exploring Jade" (Xiamen Dianshizhai Art Museum, Xiamen Ancient Culture and Art Museum)

 

[johen]

Sarmatian spirals:

Золото сарматских вождей

ГМИИ им. А.С. Пушкина показал совершенно потрясающую выставку «Золото сарматских вождей», на которой впервые представлены уникальные памятники Филипповских курганов – наследия кочевников-сарматов из фондов Уфимского федерального исследовательского центра Российской Академии наук (УФИЦ РАН) и…

bogachkova1957.livejournal.com

Wooden single-plane figures of a deer, bound with gold plates. Gold, silver, wood. Mound No. 1.

The rim of a vessel depicts a rider on a horse. Gold. Mound No. 1. UFITs RAS.

seima turbino (one spiral, two spirals, three spiral combination):

Okunevo spiral patterns on deers:

Sanxingdui spirals at china bronze:

where did Darius originate in ?

 

[johen]

^
where did ancient greek spiral patterns originate? possibly with chariot?

"A tombstone of a royal tomb in Mykenai, dated around 1500 BC, contains one of the earliest images of a chariot in Greece"

​

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/A-tombstone-of-a-royal-tomb-in-Mykenai-dated-around-1500-BC-contains-one-of-the_fig4_332549968

Speira(Spiral): one of the oldest and most powerful symbols in the world

The Spiral is one of the oldest symbols and has been used since the Paleolithic period in Greece. This complex but powerful symbol is found everywhere and in many ancient civilizations around the world. But especially in Greece, it was a sign and symbol of the ubiquitous Ancient Hellenism and a symb

www.greecehighdefinition.com

The so-called “Golden Ratio"

Were the Greeks Really Obsessed with the Golden Ratio? - Tales of Times Forgotten

The so-called “Golden Ratio,” or φ, occurs when the ratio of the greater of two quantities to the lesser of two quantities is equivalent to the ratio of the sum of the two quantities to the greater of the two quantities. Expressed using incomprehensible math symbols, it looks like this: Many...

talesoftimesforgotten.com

"The Golden Section was used extensively by Leonardo Da Vinci. Note how all the key dimensions of the room, the table and ornamental shields in Da Vinci’s “The Last Supper” were based on the Golden Ratio, which was known in the Renaissance period as The Divine Proportion."

The Golden Ratio

 

[johen]

where did Darius originate in ?

Spirals were Aryan symbols?

1. (1-8.) A great god is Ahuramazda, who created this earth, who created yonder sky, who created man, who created happiness for man, who made Darius king, one king of many, one lord of many.

2. (8-15.) I am Darius the Great King, King of Kings, King of countries containing all kinds of men, King in this great earth far and wide, son of Hystaspes, an Achaemenian, a Persian, son of a Persian, an Aryan, having Aryan lineage.

3. (15-30.) Darius the King says: By the favor of Ahuramazda these are the countries which I seized outside of Persia; I ruled over them; they bore tribute to me; what was said to them by me, that they did; my law -- that held them firm; Media, Elam, Parthia, Aria, Bactria, Sogdiana, Chorasmia, Drangiana, Arachosia, Sattagydia, Gandara, Sind, Amyrgian Scythians, Scythians with pointed caps, Babylonia, Assyria, Arabia, Egypt, Armenia, Cappadocia, Sardis, Ionia, Scythians who are across the sea, Skudra, petasos-wearing Ionians, Libyans, Ethiopians, men of Maka, Carians.

Inscription of Darius the Great at Naqsh-e Rostam

Sarmatian spirals:

Золото сарматских вождей​

ГМИИ им. А.С. Пушкина показал совершенно потрясающую выставку «Золото сарматских вождей», на которой впервые представлены уникальные памятники Филипповских курганов – наследия кочевников-сарматов из фондов Уфимского федерального исследовательского центра Российской Академии наук (УФИЦ РАН) и…

bogachkova1957.livejournal.com

Wooden single-plane figures of a deer, bound with gold plates. Gold, silver, wood. Mound No. 1.

The rim of a vessel depicts a rider on a horse. Gold. Mound No. 1. UFITs RAS.

seima turbino (one spiral, two spirals, three spiral combination):

Okunevo spiral patterns on deers:

Sanxingdui spirals at china bronze:

 

[johen]

^
where did ancient greek spiral patterns at circle A originate? possibly with chariot?

"A tombstone of a royal tomb in Mykenai, dated around 1500 BC, contains one of the earliest images of a chariot in Greece"

​

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/A-tombstone-of-a-royal-tomb-in-Mykenai-dated-around-1500-BC-contains-one-of-the_fig4_332549968

Speira(Spiral): one of the oldest and most powerful symbols in the world

The Spiral is one of the oldest symbols and has been used since the Paleolithic period in Greece. This complex but powerful symbol is found everywhere and in many ancient civilizations around the world. But especially in Greece, it was a sign and symbol of the ubiquitous Ancient Hellenism and a symb

www.greecehighdefinition.com

The so-called “Golden Ratio"

Were the Greeks Really Obsessed with the Golden Ratio? - Tales of Times Forgotten

The so-called “Golden Ratio,” or φ, occurs when the ratio of the greater of two quantities to the lesser of two quantities is equivalent to the ratio of the sum of the two quantities to the greater of the two quantities. Expressed using incomprehensible math symbols, it looks like this: Many...

talesoftimesforgotten.com

"The Golden Section was used extensively by Leonardo Da Vinci. Note how all the key dimensions of the room, the table and ornamental shields in Da Vinci’s “The Last Supper” were based on the Golden Ratio, which was known in the Renaissance period as The Divine Proportion."

The Golden Ratio

seima turbino dagger (single spiral, double spirals, triple spirals combination) at Borodino site

snake pattern on pin gold inlayed technology at borodino :

brooch type at borodino:

star symbol (2-1 below) of Qijia culture where seima turbino reached:

"The two earliest mirrors from Gamatai (Qijia culture site) and Tianshanbeilu can be dated to around the early second millennium bce, and although there are no earlier examples from Central Asia or the Eurasian Steppe, it is clear that both reflect the crystallization of broader processes involved in the spread of bronze metallurgy across Eurasia. The distinctive star design on the Gamatai mirror is strikingly similar to designs on Seima-Turbino metalwork, suggesting that the mirror arrived in Qinghai from northern Central Asia via indirect trade networks or mobile craftspeople and traders. The Tianshanbeilu mirror, though dated to approximately the same period, appears in a very different context, as the mirror may have been made locally using metallurgical techniques brought from the steppe. The two mirrors thus potentially represent two separate processes within different socio-cultural contexts."


vs

circle A:

"The stelai are stylistically similar to the grave stelai found at Grave Circle B, but neither groups of stelai resemble similar pieces created by Minoans."

snake pattern and brooch type at circle A:

.

https://users.stlcc.edu/mfuller/Greece2009/646goldBeautifulWowSm.jpg

Mycenaean Diadem at circle A : 7

gold inlayed technology on dagger at circle A:

The Greek goddess Hecate portrayed in triplicate:

• shimao shaft tomb:
  

  

  
  
  "The 15 pit tombs can be divided into two areas, north and south, of which the southern area has a higher level of tombs, with rounded corners and rectangular planes, and the tomb area is generally more than 10 square meters, with a depth of 3.5 meters to 4 meters."
  
  

  Archaeologists discover noble-exclusive cemetery at ancient Shimao site in China​

  
  
  Mycenaean shaft tomb:
  

  

  
  

  

  
  ------