I2a-Din came to the Balkans and Dinaric Alps with the Thracians, Dacians & Illyrians

[Miroslav]

The haplogroup is zero in whole Europe. Your argument is invalid. There was a small sample for ancient Croatia, as well no tested sample for the most part of ancient Balkan i.e. Bosnia and Herzegovina especially where is the highest percentage of I2a-Din. No comment about with mumbo-jumbo theories that I2a-Din came with Turkic-speaking tribes

 

[Apsurdistan]

Just let them claim the Ilyrian or w/e heritage they want for God's sake. Why does it matter so much?

 

[LeBrok]

Just let them claim the Ilyrian or w/e heritage they want for God's sake. Why does it matter so much?

Actually, a good point.

 

[Fatherland]

The haplogroup is zero in whole Europe. Your argument is invalid. There was a small sample for ancient Croatia, as well no tested sample for the most part of ancient Balkan i.e. Bosnia and Herzegovina especially where is the highest percentage of I2a-Din. No comment about with mumbo-jumbo theories that I2a-Din came with Turkic-speaking tribes

Your posts are extremely ignorant when it has been pointed out that the highest diversity of I2a1b-Din is in further Eastern Europe between Poland and Ukraine. In Bosnia it reaches among the lowest diversity which obviously speaks of a rapid, recent expansion straight out of further Eastern Europe.

For the same reason EV13 did not originate in Kosovo, despite peaking there.

Open-mindedness gets us far.

The fact that they found Ancient J2b2-L283 in an area(Dalmatia) where in modern times J2b2-L283 there reaches 2-4% MAX while I2a1b-"Din" peaks nowadays(nonexistant back in the Bronze Age) says alot.

 

[Miroslav]

The fact that they found Ancient J2b2-L283 in an area(Dalmatia) where in modern times J2b2-L283 there reaches 2-4% MAX while I2a1b-"Din" peaks nowadays(nonexistant back in the Bronze Age) says alot.

Oh my God... Do you understand that only 7 out of 14 samples from a different time period, culture, and locality in Croatia had Y-DNA result? There was only ONE local (Veliki Vanik) sample from Bronze Age (1700-1500 BCE) with J2b2a haplogroup. You're building a whole theory on 1 sample. Please, everyone knows that population in Albania has the lowest average IQ in Europe (below 90 IQ), don't act like a specimen with such level of cognitive ability. What you're writing about was already discussed. You did not bring anything constructive to the discussion.

 

[Garrick]

Oh my God... Do you understand that only 7 out of 14 samples from a different time period, culture, and locality in Croatia had Y-DNA result? There was only ONE local (Veliki Vanik) sample from Bronze Age (1700-1500 BCE) with J2b2a haplogroup. You're building a whole theory on 1 sample. Please, everyone knows that population in Albania has the lowest average IQ in Europe (below 90 IQ), don't act like a specimen with such level of cognitive ability. What you're writing about was already discussed. You did not bring anything constructive to the discussion.

You're right but unfortunately it is useless discussion, because they don't want facts.

In Serbia, in culture of Lepen Whirl I2a is found on more locations and epochs, the oldest one is I2a1-p37 in Padina, 8753-8351 BC.

Some Albanians thought that E-V13 will be found in Lepen Whirl and Vinca.

But no, other haplogroups in Lepen Whirl are R1b1a-L754 (probably R1b1a2-V88) and in Vinca G2a (three samples 5604-4460 BC).

Nowhere haplogroups represented at today's Ghegs E-V13, R1b-ht35, J2b.

 

[Fatherland]

Oh my God... Do you understand that only 7 out of 14 samples from a different time period, culture, and locality in Croatia had Y-DNA result? There was only ONE local (Veliki Vanik) sample from Bronze Age (1700-1500 BCE) with J2b2a haplogroup. You're building a whole theory on 1 sample. Please, everyone knows that population in Albania has the lowest average IQ in Europe (below 90 IQ), don't act like a specimen with such level of cognitive ability. What you're writing about was already discussed. You did not bring anything constructive to the discussion.

In any regard, my IQ is well past three-digit. Insults wont do you well, considering your posting history.

It is not wrong to state that the ancestors of the Serbs and Croats were brought by the Huno-Avars, simply because it is correct.

Albanians and most of Greeks resisted Turkic admixture.

In 400 AD+ during the migration period, I2a1b-"Din" was somewhere in Ukraine according to the diversity there, tagging on with the R1a carriers to the Balkans, along with the more diverse Huno-Avars.

 

[Fatherland]

You're right but unfortunately it is useless discussion, because they don't want facts.

In Serbia, in culture of Lepen Whirl I2a is found on more locations and epochs, the oldest one is I2a1-p37 in Padina, 8753-8351 BC.

Some Albanians thought that E-V13 will be found in Lepen Whirl and Vinca.

But no, other haplogroups in Lepen Whirl are R1b1a-L754 (probably R1b1a2-V88) and in Vinca G2a (three samples 5604-4460 BC).

Nowhere haplogroups represented at today's Ghegs E-V13, R1b-ht35, J2b.

You don't seem to have a bit of knowledge about the subject.

L23, the highest clade in Albanians by 99% represents the forefather of the Western and Nordic world. R1b as a whole barely reaches 3% in Serbs and Bosnians.

 

[Garrick]

You don't seem to have a bit of knowledge about the subject.

L23, the highest clade in Albanians represents the forefather of the Western and Nordic world.

No, you don't know.

You event didn't read original scientific text.

R1b1a-L754 found in Lepen Whirl in Serbia are probably R1b1a2-V88.

 

[Fatherland]

No, you don't know.

You event didn't read original scientific text.

R1b1a-L754 found in Lepen Whirl in Serbia are probably R1b1a2-V88.

R1b in Serbs and Bosnians is critically low, this is the ancestor of the Nordic, Germanic and Celtic world, it spread its influence eastwards carrying Northern components as we have seen in EHG samples:

L23:

 

[Garrick]

R1b in Serbs and Bosnians is critically low, this is the ancestor of the Nordic, Germanic and Celtic world, it spread its influence eastwards carrying Northern components as we have seen in EHG samples:

Why do you change topic?

Nobody spoke, neither about whole R1b haplogroup, nor about R1b-ht35.

I gave results for Lepen Whirl, in Serbia, where scientists found only I2a and R1b1a-L754 (it is probably V88), period 9221-5838 BC.

There is a good recent topic:

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/34173-does-R1b-V88-originate-from-the-Iron-Gate

No found R1b-ht35 which is typical, among others (Armenians, Anatolians, etc), for Ghegs.

 

[Fatherland]

Why do you change topic?

Nobody spoke, neither about whole R1b haplogroup, nor about R1b-ht35.

I gave results for Lepen Whirl, in Serbia, where scientists found only I2a and R1b1a-L754 (it is probably V88), period 9221-5838 BC.

There is a good recent topic:

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/34173-does-R1b-V88-originate-from-the-Iron-Gate

No found R1b-ht35 which is typical, among others (Armenians, Anatolians, etc), for Ghegs.

Nothing wrong with that as Eastward migrations did happen from Europe.

R1b-L23 is the proper name for it, as you can see in the tree, Germanic, Nordic, Celtic, Italic, Atlantic branched off it. R1b-L23 was high in Ancient Spartans and it was high in Illyrians combined with J2b2, as Illyrians were Indo-European.

 

[Garrick]

Nothing wrong with that as Eastward migrations did happen from Europe.

R1b-L23 is the proper name for it, as you can see in the tree, Germanic, Nordic, Celtic, Italic, Atlantic branched off it. R1b-L23 was high in Ancient Spartans and it was high in Illyrians combined with J2b2, as Illyrians were Indo-European.

First R1b in the Balkans according new founds were R1b1a-L754.

It is possible that they were any extinct branch L754* but it is more probably they were V88, today this branch is not in the Balkans.

Similar results for R1b1a-L754 found in Spain, if it is probably R1b-V88 it means that once R1b-V88 carriers lived in Europe and together with I2a.

 

[Miroslav]

It is not wrong to state that the ancestors of the Serbs and Croats were brought by the Huno-Avars, simply because it is correct.

Literally, you do not know anything about the history of Europe and migration period when you mix Huns with Avars (different tribes and time period) and consider that Serbs and Croats were brought by your made-up "Huno-Avars". It is not correct anyhow, what you write is some pseudoscientific fiction which doesn't have any correct argumentation, hence your "conclusions" are not worth losing time. Please, next time inform yourself what you're discussing about and think about it before your write it down.

 

[Apsurdistan]

Lol thanks Huno-Avars for bringing us to the most beautiful and diverse region of Europe for us to settle. How nice of them.

 

[Nik]

As I've mentioned before, my opinion is that I2a-Din is rather a representative of a Northern and North-Eastern (Pannonian, Dacian) population that was pushed further South and South-West by any of the barbarian incursions.

Perhaps you guys can come to an agreement or at least understand each other better if you simply say that "the Illyrii proprie dicti were indeed E-V13, J2b, and R1b predominantly, while their more northern cousins had more I2a".

Ps: I dont think I2a-Din is a Slavic marker at all. It's way too common among Romanians, Moldavians, and Vlachs (even in Albania) to be Slavic. Why would the ruling Slavs accept the identity and language of the nomadic highland Vlachs in such huge numbers anyway?!

 

[Fatherland]

As I've mentioned before, my opinion is that I2a-Din is rather a representative of a Northern and North-Eastern (Pannonian, Dacian) population that was pushed further South and South-West by any of the barbarian incursions.

Perhaps you guys can come to an agreement or at least understand each other better if you simply say that "the Illyrii proprie dicti were indeed E-V13, J2b, and R1b predominantly, while their more northern cousins had more I2a".

Ps: I dont think I2a-Din is a Slavic marker at all. It's way too common among Romanians, Moldavians, and Vlachs (even in Albania) to be Slavic. Why would the ruling Slavs accept the identity and language of the nomadic highland Vlachs in such huge numbers anyway?!

The clade is too young to have been established among old-Balkan populations.

The only person with that marker existed about 2500 years ago in Poland. TMRCA is a powerful tool. Tosks and Vlachs have it due to assimilating Slavs. Vlach haplogroups vary per region, this is not a homogenous population by any means.

Keep this example in mind: All I1 carriers descend from the same paternal ancestor of 3100 years ago and look how many they are now in Scandinavia and elsewhere since the migration period. Central and Eastern Europe along with the Balkans was and still is way more densely populated than Scandinavia.

Scandinavia today is only 16 million total pop while eastern half of Europe I'd estimate around 350 million.

 

[Garrick]

The clade is too young to have been established among old-Balkan populations.

The only person with that marker existed about 2500 years ago in Poland. TMRCA is a powerful tool. Tosks and Vlachs have it due to assimilating Slavs. Vlach haplogroups vary per region, this is not a homogenous population by any means.

Keep this example in mind: All I1 carriers descend from the same paternal ancestor of 3100 years ago and look how many they are now in Scandinavia and elsewhere since the migration period. Central and Eastern Europe along with the Balkans was and still is way more densely populated than Scandinavia.

Scandinavia today is only 16 million total pop while eastern half of Europe I'd estimate around 350 million.

No. If we speak about I-CTS10228 it formed 5300 before and nobody knows where.

People can speculate it was barely surviving, about possible bottleneck and what is reason.

Earlier clades are everywhere around Europe including Balkans and some of them are very very old, I2 is one of the oldest European haplogroups.

 

[Fatherland]

No. If we speak about I-CTS10228 it formed 5300 before and nobody knows where.

People can speculate it was barely surviving, about possible bottleneck and what is reason.

Earlier clades are everywhere around Europe including Balkans and some of them are very very old, I2 is one of the oldest European haplogroups.

Wrong. 2500 years is the I2a1b-Din TMRCA, from the diversity of Poland-Ukraine.

 

[Miroslav]

Perhaps you guys can come to an agreement or at least understand each other better if you simply say that "the Illyrii proprie dicti were indeed E-V13, J2b, and R1b predominantly, while their more northern cousins had more I2a".

On the basis of currently available sample results, we simply can not. Haplogroup I2a1 is rare compared to I2a2 in ancient samples from whole Europe, then where is this I2a-Din? Nobody knows. The information about the haplogroup we have on Eupedia is a bunch of ideological and contradicting hypothesis without any evidence. It is simply ridiculous.

No. If we speak about I-CTS10228 it formed 5300 before and nobody knows where.

A number of people who do not know the difference between I-CTS10228 and I-S17250 is too damn high. A wonder they do not even know which subclade is known as I2a-Din.

Wrong. 2500 years is the I2a1b-Din TMRCA...

Tell me, which haplogroup subclade I2a1b-Din is?