Interesting Maps and Graphs

Angela said:
I would tend to agree.

Odd, too, that they have Long Island as part of "Yankee dom" and the rest of the NY Metro area as New Netherlands.

Lots of Dutch settlement on Long Island, although there was lots of movement from Connecticut and Massachusetts to the eastern half of the island as well.

Unless they're including Brooklyn and Queens with New Netherlands?

Regardless, none of that has much to do with the "culture" of that area today.
Click to expand...

I suppose my disappointment with this map/article is that I find this a fascinating subject and they have demeaned it somehow by making it about modern politics (at least in my view). I mean, isn't it amazing that there is a kind of founder principle at work here where the first colonists create a societal norm or ethos for everyone that follows? This ethos can change over time, but it apparently takes a huge effort and a large population shift.

It would be interesting to see how the influx of, say, the Irish, had on Boston, or the Italians on New York City, both centers of the northeastern ethos, as opposed to other areas with large Irish/Italian populations.
 
Consensual sex between siblings.

h3cMziz.png


Interesting how some countries are so black and white, and some take a more "nuanced" approach.

Personally, while I think its gross, so long as they are same sex, or if a heterosexual pair they get sterilized, I guess it shouldn't be "illegal", although I can see the "let's not make this a public scandal kind of thing.

There was some story about this in the news recently. Social services somehow found out that the "helpful" brother of a single mother with five kids was, in fact, her brother, and was going to take the children. They tried to commit suicide and kill the children.

What a mess misdirected sexuality can cause.

Sort of related, uncle/niece marriages are quite common in India. Totally gross in my opinion, even worse than sibling incest because it's an older man with his niece whom he's supposed to protect. Plus, at these levels think of the effect in terms of "fitness".

"madhya pradesh (above) is in the center of india, but here's some data from karnataka in the south from the '80s. 21% of hindu marriages were uncle-niece, 3.7% of muslim marriages. 10.8% of hindu marriages were 1C, 17.5% of muslim. https://researchgate.net/publication/21."

Even Christians get into the act. Can't be Catholics. Can't see that going over well with the local priest. I had a first cousin who wanted to marry our fourth cousin, and the priest demanded documentation of all the ancestors going back to great, great, grandparents to make sure it wasn't within the prohibited degree.

 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRz8uERFQ2g
Angela said:
Consensual sex between siblings.

h3cMziz.png


Interesting how some countries are so black and white, and some take a more "nuanced" approach.

Personally, while I think its gross, so long as they are same sex, or if a heterosexual pair they get sterilized, I guess it shouldn't be "illegal", although I can see the "let's not make this a public scandal kind of thing.

There was some story about this in the news recently. Social services somehow found out that the "helpful" brother of a single mother with five kids was, in fact, her brother, and was going to take the children. They tried to commit suicide and kill the children.

What a mess misdirected sexuality can cause.

Sort of related, uncle/niece marriages are quite common in India. Totally gross in my opinion, even worse than sibling incest because it's an older man with his niece whom he's supposed to protect. Plus, at these levels think of the effect in terms of "fitness".

"madhya pradesh (above) is in the center of india, but here's some data from karnataka in the south from the '80s. 21% of hindu marriages were uncle-niece, 3.7% of muslim marriages. 10.8% of hindu marriages were 1C, 17.5% of muslim. https://researchgate.net/publication/21."

Even Christians get into the act. Can't be Catholics. Can't see that going over well with the local priest. I had a first cousin who wanted to marry our fourth cousin, and the priest demanded documentation of all the ancestors going back to great, great, grandparents to make sure it wasn't within the prohibited degree.
Click to expand...
 
Jovialis said:
iAyRU68.png


Italians in US & Canada.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_Americans
Click to expand...

Doesn't 20% seem low to you for Jersey and Long Island?

I bet half and certainly quarter Italians didn't necessarily put Italian. Some, like Jimmy Kimmel, might have said Italian when they're only half Italian, but I doubt somebody like Haydn Panettiere or Dana Perino would.

I bet the figures for percentage of white Americans in these areas would be much higher.
 
Angela said:
Doesn't 20% seem low to you for Jersey and Long Island?

I bet half and certainly quarter Italians didn't necessarily put Italian. Some, like Jimmy Kimmel might have said Italian when they're only half Italian, but I doubt somebody like Haydn Panettiere or Dana Perino wouldn't.
Click to expand...


I'm surprised that Nevada has so many, I didn't know so many Italians went out there. There's definitely a lot of Italians still in NJ, but they've mostly moved out deeper to suburbs, or further to PA; I've noticed.

Many Italians, like a few in my family have married into other European ethnicities, (Irish being the most usual) and even outside of that, to a rarer extent.
 
^Also in NJ, there's been an increase of Hispanic, and Asian populations, and an exodus of white Americans. Many of them moved out to Pennsylvania. Considering the demographic changes, the 20% in NJ makes more sense.
 
This is from the 2000 Census:

https://www.niaf.org/culture/statistics/states-with-the-highest-percentage-of-italian-americans/
[TABLE="width: 0"]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 3"]More than 10 Percent[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #ffffcc"]
[TD]STATE[/TD]
[TD]AMOUNT[/TD]
[TD]PERCENTAGE[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #99ffff"]
[TD]Rhode Island[/TD]
[TD]199,077[/TD]
[TD]19.0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #ccffff"]
[TD]Connecticut[/TD]
[TD]634,364[/TD]
[TD]18.6[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #99ffff"]
[TD]New Jersey[/TD]
[TD]1,503,637[/TD]
[TD]17.9[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #ccffff"]
[TD]New York[/TD]
[TD]2,737,146[/TD]
[TD]14.4[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #99ffff"]
[TD]Massachusetts[/TD]
[TD]860,079[/TD]
[TD]13.5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #ccffff"]
[TD]Pennsylvania[/TD]
[TD]1,418,465[/TD]
[TD]11.6[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 3"]More than 5 Percent[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #ffffcc"]
[TD]STATE[/TD]
[TD]AMOUNT[/TD]
[TD]PERCENTAGE[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #99ffff"]
[TD]Delaware[/TD]
[TD]72,677[/TD]
[TD]9.3[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #ccffff"]
[TD]New Hampshire[/TD]
[TD]105,610[/TD]
[TD]8.5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #99ffff"]
[TD]Nevada[/TD]
[TD]132,515[/TD]
[TD]6.6[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #ccffff"]
[TD]Florida[/TD]
[TD]1,003,977[/TD]
[TD]6.3[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #99ffff"]
[TD]Vermont[/TD]
[TD]38,835[/TD]
[TD]6.4[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #ccffff"]
[TD]Ohio[/TD]
[TD]675,749[/TD]
[TD]6.0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #99ffff"]
[TD]Illinois[/TD]
[TD]744,274[/TD]
[TD]6.0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #ccffff"]
[TD]Maryland[/TD]
[TD]267,573[/TD]
[TD]5.1[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

I think this is reflective in the map. So perhaps the number might be lower currently, considering the demographic changes, I've noted.
 
Jovialis said:
This is from the 2000 Census:

https://www.niaf.org/culture/statistics/states-with-the-highest-percentage-of-italian-americans/
[TABLE="width: 0"]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 3"]More than 10 Percent[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #ffffcc"]
[TD]STATE[/TD]
[TD]AMOUNT[/TD]
[TD]PERCENTAGE[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #99ffff"]
[TD]Rhode Island[/TD]
[TD]199,077[/TD]
[TD]19.0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #ccffff"]
[TD]Connecticut[/TD]
[TD]634,364[/TD]
[TD]18.6[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #99ffff"]
[TD]New Jersey[/TD]
[TD]1,503,637[/TD]
[TD]17.9[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #ccffff"]
[TD]New York[/TD]
[TD]2,737,146[/TD]
[TD]14.4[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #99ffff"]
[TD]Massachusetts[/TD]
[TD]860,079[/TD]
[TD]13.5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #ccffff"]
[TD]Pennsylvania[/TD]
[TD]1,418,465[/TD]
[TD]11.6[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 3"]More than 5 Percent[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #ffffcc"]
[TD]STATE[/TD]
[TD]AMOUNT[/TD]
[TD]PERCENTAGE[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #99ffff"]
[TD]Delaware[/TD]
[TD]72,677[/TD]
[TD]9.3[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #ccffff"]
[TD]New Hampshire[/TD]
[TD]105,610[/TD]
[TD]8.5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #99ffff"]
[TD]Nevada[/TD]
[TD]132,515[/TD]
[TD]6.6[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #ccffff"]
[TD]Florida[/TD]
[TD]1,003,977[/TD]
[TD]6.3[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #99ffff"]
[TD]Vermont[/TD]
[TD]38,835[/TD]
[TD]6.4[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #ccffff"]
[TD]Ohio[/TD]
[TD]675,749[/TD]
[TD]6.0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #99ffff"]
[TD]Illinois[/TD]
[TD]744,274[/TD]
[TD]6.0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #ccffff"]
[TD]Maryland[/TD]
[TD]267,573[/TD]
[TD]5.1[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

I think this is reflective in the map. So perhaps the number might be lower currently.
Click to expand...

The figures for New York City and Long Island would be much larger. I've seen studies which say 25% for Long Island. On Staten Island it's like 38%. That's too much even for me. I like a little diversity. Plus, I'm a "strange" Italian to them. :) As a percentage of white Americans it's even higher.

Similarly, for New Jersey, if you're talking about "way" out, it's probably lower.

In Florida there's a big difference between the West Coast and the East Coast. If I had to do it over again, much as I love Sarasota, I'd have opted for the East Coast. To get to a decent Italian import store I have to go to Venice, and it's no great shakes. I wind up ordering online if I'm there for a while in the winter. Then there's the fact there are very few direct flights from New York to most of the West Coast except for Tampa, which I don't like anyway.

There are other things as well.

Yeah, Nevada is a surprise. I heard Jimmy Kimmel talking about how many members of his Italian family live there. I don't know. Maybe they went out to Vegas and liked it?

I hate the damn place. Like the southwest, though, especially New Mexico.
 
Angela said:
The figures for New York City and Long Island would be much larger. I've seen studies which say 25% for Long Island. On Staten Island it's like 38%. That's too much even for me. I like a little diversity. Plus, I'm a "strange" Italian to them. :) As a percentage of white Americans it's even higher.

Similarly, for New Jersey, if you're talking about "way" out, it's probably lower.

In Florida there's a big difference between the West Coast and the East Coast. If I had to do it over again, much as I love Sarasota, I'd have opted for the East Coast. To get to a decent Italian import store I have to go to Venice, and it's no great shakes. I wind up ordering online if I'm there for a while in the winter. Then there's the fact there are very few direct flights from New York to most of the West Coast except for Tampa, which I don't like anyway.

There are other things as well.

Yeah, Nevada is a surprise. I heard Jimmy Kimmel talking about how many members of his Italian family live there. I don't know. Maybe they went out to Vegas and liked it?

I hate the damn place. Like the southwest, though, especially New Mexico.
Click to expand...

The best places to retire are Florida, Arizona and Nevada. No wonder you find Italians from the East Coast there.

The west coast of Florida is where a lot of the Midwest Italians retire. Chicago, Cleveland, Pittsburgh.

If you need info on the East Coast let me know. I live in the Melbourne area.
 
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bigsnake49 said:
The best places to retire are Florida, Arizona and Nevada. No wonder you find Italians from the East Coast there.

The west coast of Florida is where a lot of the Midwest Italians retire. Chicago, Cleveland, Pittsburgh.

If you need avid on the East Coast let me know. I live in the Melbourne area.
Click to expand...

Thanks, Big Snake.

We bought a condo with my parents on Longboat Key years ago, so we're settled for the time being. I would do the East Coast if I could go back in time, though, although I love my area and Sarasota in general. At the time it seemed to us that there were more condos available on the beach in this area, and the zoning was great. Sometimes on the East Coast I've wondered if they ever heard of zoning. :)

More than anything it's the relative lack of availability of direct flights that's a pain in the neck, especially in winter, because I don't want to get stranded in North Carolina or Atlanta because of a storm, so sometimes in the heart of winter I fly into Tampa and then it's an hour drive south. It was a direct flight for my parents, which was the important thing.

Yes, there are some Midwest Italians, but most of the people I meet seem to be of German background, German/Irish, and Midwest Jews from places like Pittsburgh, Cleveland etc., as you said. Lots of Canadians have places there too. It may be different further south or in Tampa.

The Panhandle is a different world, of course.
 
Angela said:
Thanks, Big Snake.

We bought a condo with my parents on Longboat Key years ago, so we're settled for the time being. I would do the East Coast if I could go back in time, though, although I love my area and Sarasota in general. At the time it seemed to us that there were more condos available on the beach in this area, and the zoning was great. Sometimes on the East Coast I've wondered if they ever heard of zoning. :)

More than anything it's the relative lack of availability of direct flights that's a pain in the neck, especially in winter, because I don't want to get stranded in North Carolina or Atlanta because of a storm, so sometimes in the heart of winter I fly into Tampa and then it's an hour drive south. It was a direct flight for my parents, which was the important thing.

Yes, there are some Midwest Italians, but most of the people I meet seem to be of German background, German/Irish, and Midwest Jews from places like Pittsburgh, Cleveland etc., as you said. Lots of Canadians have places there too. It may be different further south or in Tampa.

The Panhandle is a different world, of course.
Click to expand...

Yeah, we have the same problem with direct flights here. So sometimes I drive to Orlando and Orlando has direct flights to everywhere including Europe.
 
Wow! I didn't know there are so many Brazilians and Argentines with some Italian ancestry.

ivisix9akf741.png
 
.... and according to this map, there are a million descendants of Italians in Uruguay, and we Uruguayans are three and a half million ...
 
bigsnake49 said:
Yeah, we have the same problem with direct flights here. So sometimes I drive to Orlando and Orlando has direct flights to everywhere including Europe.
Click to expand...

You would think that San Diego, where I live, would have little problem getting direct flights (there are 6 million people in the metropolitan area), but LA is too close so to get a great many of the long hauls you have to take a puddle-jumper to LAX.
 
Regio X said:
Wow! I didn't know there are so many Brazilians and Argentines with some Italian ancestry.

ivisix9akf741.png
Click to expand...

Indeed, once I met an Argentinian whose surname was the name of my father's village.
 
Regio X said:
Wow! I didn't know there are so many Brazilians and Argentines with some Italian ancestry.
ivisix9akf741.png
Click to expand...
Having previously worked in tourism and met dozens of Argentinians who also hold an Italian passport, this is no surprise to me.
 
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