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HUN_Hács_EMA:Hacs_24__AD_475,0.126344,0.135065,0.065619,0.044574,0.036007,0.012829,0.011281,-0.007615,-0.002045,0.002187,-0.012017,0.007194,-0.021556,-0.012111,0.026465,0.009016,0.000782,0.001267,0.01433,0.005628,0.007112,-0.001731,-0.000493,0.017834,-0.009221
HUN_Hács_EMA:Hacs_10__AD_475,0.112685,0.133034,0.059585,0.041344,0.047393,0.030678,0.00423,0.011076,0.000818,0.004738,-0.00747,0.003147,-0.010555,-0.011147,0.014115,0.004906,0.01004,0.001774,0.013073,0.009004,0.001497,0.007172,0.002342,0.010965,-0.005149
From the study "Fine-scale sampling uncovers the complexity of migrations in 5th–6th century Pannonia":
ID HACS_24, Hács-Béndekpuszta, ~475 CE J2b-L283>? mtDNA -
ID HACS_10, Hács-Béndekpuszta, ~475 CE J2b-L283>Z1043 mtDNA H16
G25 coordinates for each sample (courtesy of teepean47):
Code:HUN_Hács_EMA:Hacs_24__AD_475,0.126344,0.135065,0.065619,0.044574,0.036007,0.012829,0.011281,-0.007615,-0.002045,0.002187,-0.012017,0.007194,-0.021556,-0.012111,0.026465,0.009016,0.000782,0.001267,0.01433,0.005628,0.007112,-0.001731,-0.000493,0.017834,-0.009221 HUN_Hács_EMA:Hacs_10__AD_475,0.112685,0.133034,0.059585,0.041344,0.047393,0.030678,0.00423,0.011076,0.000818,0.004738,-0.00747,0.003147,-0.010555,-0.011147,0.014115,0.004906,0.01004,0.001774,0.013073,0.009004,0.001497,0.007172,0.002342,0.010965,-0.005149
Preprint has been out there for quite some time so these have already been added to the ancient J2b-L283 map. Now that the paper has been published the raw data is hopefully useful enough in order to determine some more specific clade position.
Hey there cousin, for the most up to date information on our branch Hunter Provyn (Facebook) and Trojet (member here) are your best bet. You should also join the facebook group if you have not already.Hi there, I am a J2b2-L283, J- FT366875. My father is form the island of Krk, north Croatia. In the Y-full tree I am matching with a man from Calabria ( Cosenza ) and I am pretty close to the albanian J-FT29034 ( Vlore ) and the french J-Y306238.
Its a very interesting combination. A probable migration of Illyrians of probably todays Montenegro in Puglia (Messapians), shifting north (Krk) and south (Vlore) and later on being members of the Roman army (France). Quite a historyHi there, I am a J2b2-L283, J- FT366875. My father is form the island of Krk, north Croatia. In the Y-full tree I am matching with a man from Calabria ( Cosenza ) and I am pretty close to the albanian J-FT29034 ( Vlore ) and the french J-Y306238.
The chronology didn't align well with this narrative (mainly because of the TMRCA).Its a very interesting combination. A probable migration of Illyrians of probably todays Montenegro in Puglia (Messapians), shifting north (Krk) and south (Vlore) and later on being members of the Roman army (France). Quite a history
The chronology didn't align well with this narrative (mainly because of the TMRCA).
The FT366856 TMRCA (even if unsafe because based on only two samples) says that the Croatian and Italian samples separated about 500 BCE, the Messapians are supposed to have migrated around ~1000 BCE.
Thus, it seems hard to have been carried by Messapians. In particular because these two samples have a high level of private SNP compared to cousin branches, which indicates that if anything YFULL likely over-estimated this 500 BCE TMRCA value.
Therefore, I would find a "Roman" diffusion of this clade way more likely than a "Messapian" one.
We cannot determine that the migration from Illyrian to Messapian was an one time event. It could have been waves, having similar languages.
Great news and interesting clade aswell as origin background! May I ask where you tested?Hi there, I am a J2b2-L283, J- FT366875. My father is form the island of Krk, north Croatia. In the Y-full tree I am matching with a man from Calabria ( Cosenza ) and I am pretty close to the albanian J-FT29034 ( Vlore ) and the french J-Y306238.
New result from Rrenjet. This goes out to some dudes on this fora that have been saying for long time now that the J2b2>Y126399 Gashis were originally Krasniq, who have been adopted to Gashi tribe later one. And to another one who said that the Bardhis are the real Gash.
And to another one who said that the Bardhis are the real Gash
FISI I GASHIT
Ne nje studim te Xh. Gosturanit per folmen e Gashit dhe te Krasniqes, ne mes te tjerave, shkruhet: Fisi i Gashit eshte formuar nga dy fiseve te dobesuara: nga te Bardhet dhe Shipshanet..." (fq. 169-172) Keshtu, Shipshani u be pjese e fisit te Gashit.
Studiuesi Austriak ERNEST VAN HESSE-VARTEGG ne shkrimin e tij "Malesoret e Alpeve Shqiptare", botuar ne gazeten "Shkelzeni" (25 prill 1990) shkruan: "Fisi i Gashit: Banoret e Gashit formojne dy barqe: Shipshan dhe Bardhaj.
Luzha ne kete kohe ishte pakice e fisit Gash të Botushes dhe ishte e pafuqishme te mbrohej nga konfliktet qe ndodhnin ne mes te fiseve, andaj Aga u takua me Bajraktarin e te Bardheve ne Babine dhe ia dha ketij te fundit Luzhën nen Bajrakun e tij. Keshtu Luzha u asmiliua dhe u be pjesë e fisit te Gashit. (keto ngjarje kanë ndodhur rreth viteve 1830-1850) Pas këtyre bashkimeve të fisit të të Bardhëve me Shipshan dhe Luzhë, te tre sëbashku e moren emrin Fisi Gash.Keshtu Fisi i Gashit u be me solid, më kompakt dhe me i fortë për ti përballuar situatat e rrezikshme që mund ti kanoseshin.
Edhe Shipshani, pjesë e fisit të Gashit, u rrit u forcua dhe e plotësoj numrin e nevojshëm të burrave për luftë dhe kushtet e tjera që kërkoheshin për krijimin e Bajrakut të vet. Bajraku u vendos në Papaj në shtëpinë e Din Bajramit (Kasaj). Ndryshe nga Bajraqet e tjera, Bajraku i Shipshanit nuk ka lëvizur nga ai truall që nga fillimi e në ditët e sotme.
Pavarësisht nga e drejta e krijimit të bajrakut më veti, Shipshani nuk ndryshoj, sado pak, qëndrimin e marrëdhëniet që kishte me fisin e Gashit, përkundrazi ata qëndruan gjithnjë të palëkundur e korrekt. Formuesit e fshatrave në Shipshan janë tre vëllezërit, nga t♪7 cilët rrjedhin banoët e sotëm të këtij vendbanimi :
Fshati Gegaj, rrjedh nga Gega ; Fshati Buçaj nga Buça dhe Fshati Papaj nga Papa rreth 14 Breza më parë. Nga fshati Gegaj rrjedh familja Qelia nga e cila rrjedh familja Maloku.
Is Interesing you moved to territory of Balkan Slavs where they came to Balkans 1400 years ago from that place that you live now and Balkans Slavs moved to your territory where is your ancient originYes, my family were Gorale. As you’ve pointed out, they largely descend from migratory Vlachs who moved north into the Carpathian Mtns of Southern Poland, Slovakia, Czech Republic, and Ukraine. I was convinced this was the source of our PH1602 for many years since it is a Balkan haplogroup (also, there is a Vlach from the mountains of northern Greece who did the BigY and is PH1602). The only problem is that I have a close match with a family in Poland that likely goes back to the 900s, which predates the Vlach migrations to the Carpathians. We could still be Vlachs, but I’m open to the possibility of being related to Illyrians or closely related group who settled in the Carpathians prior to Vlach migration.
By genetic test you belong to North Illyrian line Albanians include J2b L283 and other Illyrian happlogroups belong to Southern Illyrian lines . But during Roman Empire North Illyrians were Romanized and started to speak LatinYes, I agree with your map. Of course I’m just parroting what others, who are better versed than me on this subject, have been saying for years. I think it’s worth noting that Maciamo Hay, who started this site, long ago postulated that J2b M205 came from the Zagros area and that J2b L283 spread to Europe via the Caucasus Mtns and the Steppe with the Indo European westward migrations. It’s all part of his article on J2 here on Eupedia. He was way ahead of just about everyone. It’s one of the reasons I like this site and this forum.
Great news and interesting clade aswell as origin background! May I ask where you tested?
This is just repetitive and to be found in pages ago but nonetheless. Some helpful links for you and other (newly) tested J2b-L283ers (you probably know some of these already):
J2b-L283 ancient samples map (courtesy of Flor Veseli): easy to find with the key words
J2b-L283 Portal by Hunter Provyn: https://phylogeographer.com/j2b-l283/
Did you test via some WGS test or FTDNA's Big Y? If it's the latter you can join the FTDNA group (a bit confusing as not labeled J2b-L283 but its "ancestral" branch even though most samples are J2b-L283).
Facebook group is called "Haplogroup J-L283" (admins are Flor Veseli and Hunter Provyn) which has been mentioned earlier above. And I see you're in the Discord server aswell
Iapodes (japodes ) lived in the interior of northern Croatia, they where neighbours of the Liburnians whose main capital was on the mainland and not on the islands as everyone thinks.
Daunians departed for Foggia Italy in the late bronze-age and where Italinized inside 200 years by the samnites of Venosa
why do you think the Cetina culture was all J-L283 ....................cetina culture map shows 100% all the liburnian homelands including the islands
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