More genomes from Mesolithic Romania and Spain (Gonzales-Fortes et al. 2017)

Maciamo

Veteran member
Admin
Messages
9,860
Reaction score
3,134
Points
113
Location
Lothier
Ethnic group
Italo-celto-germanic
It's relatively small paper compared to the mastodons published earlier this month, but nevertheless interesting.

Paleogenomic Evidence for Multi-generational Mixing between Neolithic Farmers and Mesolithic Hunter-Gatherers in the Lower Danube Basin (extended PDF with supplementary materials here)

Summary

"The transition from hunting and gathering to farming involved profound cultural and technological changes. In Western and Central Europe, these changes occurred rapidly and synchronously after the arrival of early farmers of Anatolian origin, who largely replaced the local Mesolithic hunter-gatherers. Further east, in the Baltic region, the transition was gradual, with little or no genetic input from incoming farmers. Here we use ancient DNA to investigate the relationship between hunter-gatherers and farmers in the Lower Danube basin, a geographically intermediate area that is characterized by a rapid Neolithic transition but also by the presence of archaeological evidence that points to cultural exchange, and thus possible admixture, between hunter-gatherers and farmers. We recovered four human paleogenomes (1.1× to 4.1× coverage) from Romania spanning a time transect between 8.8 thousand years ago (kya) and 5.4 kya and supplemented them with two Mesolithic genomes (1.7× and 5.3×) from Spain to provide further context on the genetic background of Mesolithic Europe. Our results show major Western hunter-gatherer (WHG) ancestry in a Romanian Eneolithic sample with a minor, but sizeable, contribution from Anatolian farmers, suggesting multiple admixture events between hunter-gatherers and farmers. Dietary stable-isotope analysis of this sample suggests a mixed terrestrial/aquatic diet. Our results provide support for complex interactions among hunter-gatherers and farmers in the Danube basin, demonstrating that in some regions, demic and cultural diffusion were not mutually exclusive, but merely the ends of a continuum for the process of Neolithization."

The three Mesolithic southern Romanians belonged to Y-DNA/mtDNA haplogroups R/U5b2c, R1/U5a1c and R1b/K1 + 16362.

The two Mesolithic northwest Spaniards are female and belong to mtDNA haplogroups U5a2a and U5b.

A female Eneolithic sample (5,375 cal BP) from Gura Baciului in central Romania was also tested and belonged to K1a4a.

All Mesolithic samples were pure Mesolithic European autosomally (apparently only WHG). The Chalcolithic sample was about 65% Mesolithic HG, 30% Neolithic farmer and 5% of Steppe/EHG (without CHG).

They also report derived alleles for pigmentation and lactose tolerance. All Mesolithic samples had dark eyes, hair and skin, except one blue-eyed Spaniard. In contrast the Copper Age Romanian had fair skin, blue eyes and possibly lighter brown hair than the others. None of them had derived MC1R mutations for red hair. None of them were able to digest lactose.

Of course the paper would have been much more interesting (for us) if it had been published before the Mathiesen et al. (2017) preprint two weeks ago, but at least this is the definitive paper.
 
I guess you were right about K1 in Mesolithic Europe. I always thought mHG K arose in WHG-like people because it belongs to mHG U but I'm surprised to see Mesolithic Serbia/Romania had so much K1(something like 20% of Iron Gate HGs). The K1*(maybe K1c) in Mesolithic Greece now makes sense considering a lot of the Iron Gate HGs had K1c. If Greece was similar to Romania then that could explain R1b V88 in Neolithic Spain.

But there's no indication any form of H was popular anywhere in Mesolithic but who knows.
 
thanx for your summary, Maciamo

it looks like mesolithic Greece was populated by G2a/K1 HG, and this K1 appears once again in mesolithic Danube Gorge
no EHG in mesolithic Danube Gorge would mean no origin for neither Yamna nor CW, allthough at frist sight, I don't find a clear EHG component nowhere in the paper
 
thanx for your summary, Maciamo

it looks like mesolithic Greece was populated by G2a/K1 HG, and this K1 appears once again in mesolithic Danube Gorge
no EHG in mesolithic Danube Gorge would mean no origin for neither Yamna nor CW, allthough at frist sight, I don't find a clear EHG component nowhere in the paper

As I explained to FireHaired before, I believe that haplogroup K appeared north of the Black Sea as a descendant of Mesolithic European U8b. Some Mesolithic Eastern Europeans eventually made their way to Anatolia and the Caucasus, bringing Y-DNA R1b and I2c and mtDNA K (and probably also U5 and V) lineages with them.

It has now been confirmed that both I2c and R1b were found among Epipaleolithic and Mesolithic Europeans. And yet I2c was also found among Early Anatolian farmers. Mesolithic Europeans all belonged to old subclades of R1b, such as L754, L388 or P297. All evidence points to R1b-M269 having emerged in eastern Anatolia, the southern Caucasus or western Iran (in other words around modern Kurdistan and Armenia) and having returned to the Pontic-Caspian Steppe as R1b-L23 by crossing the Caucasus. So it means that R1b-V88 and R1b-P297 people did migrated from Eastern Europe to the region of Kurdistan during the Mesolithic. This is where R1b hunters would have domesticated cows and later acquired metallurgy from their neighbours, but also how they returned to Europe with 30 to 50% of CHG admixture from millennia of intermingling with West Asians. My point is that if R1b-V88, R1b-P297 and I2c did get to the northern Middle East during the Epipaleolithic or Early Mesolithic, they could easily have brought mtDNA K1 to the region. If they domesticated cattle, their lineages would have quickly blended with other Middle Easterners, so that K1a eventually became a major Neolithic lineage. Let's not forget that the Neolithic lifestyle remained within the confines of the Fertile Crescent for 2500 years (9500 to 7000 BCE) before it started expanding to western Anatolia then Europe. It's more than enough time to spread K1a lineages around.

Ever since I published my history of haplogroup K, I have maintained that K1c, K2b and perhaps also K2a were Mesolithic East European lineages that were spread by the Indo-Europeans (through their EHG ancestry). Then haplogroup K3 was found in Mesolithic Georgia, which also suggests a Pontic Steppe/North Caucasus origin for hg K. All this to say that K1c in Mesolithic Greece is Mesolithic EHG and not linked to G2a farmers.
 
But there's no indication any form of H was popular anywhere in Mesolithic but who knows.[/QUOTE]

but in the last big paper mtdna h13 was found in mesolithic individual from romania serbia border dated to 7000 bc
so it was ther and dont forget mtdna pre-hv that was found in magdalenian cantabria iberia ......
so probably h was present in mesolitic southern europe....
i agree that u is older in most europe
but h was there in mesolitic......
pre- hv is the ancestor of hv and h
73A i also have this mutation as i am h descendents ... :)

Iron Gates
Romania
Ostrovul Corbului [I4081 / OSTCOR1a+1b / ROM47]
M
7580-7190 calBCE
311701
R1b1a
R1b1a: A702: 10038192G->A; R1b1a: CTS4244: 15510064T->G; R1b1a: CTS8436: 18026855G->A; R1b1a: FGC41: 7900883C->A; R1b1a: L1345: 21558298G->T; R1b1: CTS2229: 14226692T->A; R1: CTS2565: 14366723C->T; R: CTS8311: 17930099C->A; R: FGC1168: 15667208G->C;
H13
Mathieson 2017

Magdalenian
Spain
La Pasiega (Cantabria) [PS-1]
R0 or HV
rCRS in HVRI, G73A, reported as H
Hervella 2012
 
mtDNA K may well have come to an Anatolian LGM refuge along with I2
I would think I2 came to Anatolia after its formation, 27.5 ka, but before its TMRCA 21.9 ka
https://www.yfull.com/tree/I2/
No I2 has been observed in mesolithic Europe prior to the dispersal of the Villabruna clade, so I would suspect it stayed in Anatolia all that time.
Note that the Villabrunans arrived in Europe with microliths made with 'burin' technique and probably also with bow and arrow, something that appeared in the Kabaran in the Levant and in the Zarzian in the Zagros Mts during LGM.

mtDNA K3 was in Satsublia HG, but K1a was in Boncuklu PPN and Tepecik PN, K1c was in mesolithic Greece, while both K1a and K1b were in Barcin neolithic, all in association with G2a

the problem with mtDNA is that there is no reliable dating of the TMRCA's in the pedigree, we don't know when K or K1 originated or split

the recent paper on Indian DNA http://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...y-of-the-Indian-subcontinent?highlight=Indian claims reliable dating of the mtDNA pedigree based on a 2009 paper, but I have my doubts
 
mtDNA K may well have come to an Anatolian LGM refuge along with I2
I would think I2 came to Anatolia after its formation, 27.5 ka, but before its TMRCA 21.9 ka
https://www.yfull.com/tree/I2/
No I2 has been observed in mesolithic Europe prior to the dispersal of the Villabruna clade, so I would suspect it stayed in Anatolia all that time.
Note that the Villabrunans arrived in Europe with microliths made with 'burin' technique and probably also with bow and arrow, something that appeared in the Kabaran in the Levant and in the Zarzian in the Zagros Mts during LGM.

mtDNA K3 was in Satsublia HG, but K1a was in Boncuklu PPN and Tepecik PN, K1c was in mesolithic Greece, while both K1a and K1b were in Barcin neolithic, all in association with G2a

the problem with mtDNA is that there is no reliable dating of the TMRCA's in the pedigree, we don't know when K or K1 originated or split

the recent paper on Indian DNA http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/34112-Genetic-history-of-the-Indiancattluontinent?highlight=Indian claims reliable dating of the mtDNA pedigree based on a 2009 paper, but I have my doubts
I think this is in line with what Reich and company have been hinting at in their recent papers.It's not going to sit very well with certain people.

@Maciamo,
I don't think there's any proof it was specifcally R1b people who domesticated cattle, given that cattle came to Europe with the earliest Neolithic, nor do I see how they could have brought metallurgy in the earliest periods given that the earliest samples on the steppe showing a change in ancestry are from a period when their only metallurgy was imported from the Balkans.

However, I think the handwriting is on the wall that all the genetics labs are looking at a movement from the south onto the steppe carrying a new genetic element. In the hobbyist world it's been vociferously argued that this all came via West Asian women. I've argued many times that there are a lot of problems with that theory, not least of which is the fact that there is a lot of mtDNA U5 and U4 on the steppe, and not enough south of the Caucuses mtDNA to account for the large percentage of CHG. Maybe they'll find a big group of J2b somewhere, but if not your hypothesis is a possibility. People forget how quickly the y can become decoupled from it's original autosomal signature.
 
Last edited:
However, I think the handwriting is on the wall that all the genetics labs are looking at a movement from the south onto the steppe carrying a new
genetic element. In the hobbyist world it's been vociferously argued that this all came via West Asian women. I've argued many times that there are a lot of problems with that theory, not least of which is the fact that there is a lot of mtDNA U5 and U4 on the steppe, and not enough south of the Caucuses mtDNA to account for the large percentage of CHG. Maybe they'll find a big group of J2b somewhere, but if not your hypothesis makes sense.People forget how quickly the y can become decoupled from it's original autosomal signature.

the strange thing however is that the autosomal got CHG admixed without the Y-DNA being changed
R1b-P297 was all over Eastern Europe before the admixture started and its subclade remained dominant in Yamna, as a matter of facts, no Y-DNA seems to have crossed the Caucasus, except maybe the Khvalynsk newcomer who was R1b but not P297
I hope upcoming papers will clarify this, as I can't come up with a satisfying narrative for this myself.
 
the strange thing however is that the autosomal got CHG admixed without the Y-DNA being changed
R1b-P297 was all over Eastern Europe before the admixture started and its subclade remained dominant in Yamna, as a matter of facts, no Y-DNA seems to have crossed the Caucasus, except maybe the Khvalynsk newcomer who was R1b but not P297
I hope upcoming papers will clarify this, as I can't come up with a satisfying narrative for this myself.
I hope I didn't imply that I have this all figured out, Bicycler, because I don't. All I know is that the anthrofora view of the steppe theory has a lot of problems. Like you I'm waiting for the next papers. Rumor has it that the ancient Greek DNA paper is about to come out. Hopefully it will mean more clarity, not more questions.
 
I hope I didn't imply that I have this all figured out, Bicycler, because I don't. All I know is that the anthrofora view of the steppe theory has a lot of problems. Like you I'm waiting for the next papers. Rumor has it that the ancient Greek DNA paper is about to come out. Hopefully it will mean more clarity, not more questions.

I don't expect clean answers, I'm happy if they bring some hints which tease my imagination.

;)
 
Maciamo, I'm not sure all your 'go and return' concerning the Y-R1b's is safely established - but I admit I have no certitude, waiting for more ancient Y-DNA of differentes periods for the Anatolia to S-E Caspian regions ; we had so many surprises -
 
@Bicicleur,
No Narrative?
.. iron gates (R1b), were not much later or at the same time in Fikirtepe (R1b?) and by 6000bc in South caucasus as Shulaveri-Shomu where I M269 was born in the CHG land. by 4900 bc ( as Johannes krause also puts it) is the date I always said that Mentesh tepe fell and the Shulaveri, already with L23, in large numbers because they were many, started the big dispersal. Some run to the mountains, where one still finds lots of R1b in Bagvalins or South Ossetians, some run to the Eastern coast of black sea and moved up to the Kuban river (svodonoe and Mesokho) and later up samara to Become Yamnaya. Some moved back to eastern Anatolia to black sea shores again (Kum6). others moved south to the Aratashen land (armenia) and some even really south to become Merimde and El omari.

My main point of contentious with people as always because I say merimde by 4000bc start moving via north africa to Portugal to become Bell beakers. We will see.
 
@Bicicleur,
No Narrative?
.. iron gates (R1b), were not much later or at the same time in Fikirtepe (R1b?) and by 6000bc in South caucasus as Shulaveri-Shomu where I M269 was born in the CHG land. by 4900 bc ( as Johannes krause also puts it) is the date I always said that Mentesh tepe fell and the Shulaveri, already with L23, in large numbers because they were many, started the big dispersal. Some run to the mountains, where one still finds lots of R1b in Bagvalins or South Ossetians, some run to the Eastern coast of black sea and moved up to the Kuban river (svodonoe and Mesokho) and later up samara to Become Yamnaya. Some moved back to eastern Anatolia to black sea shores again (Kum6). others moved south to the Aratashen land (armenia) and some even really south to become Merimde and El omari.

My main point of contentious with people as always because I say merimde by 4000bc start moving via north africa to Portugal to become Bell beakers. We will see.

do I miss something?
was R1b-M269 detected south of the Caucasus prior to Yamna?
or was his ancestor R1b-P297 detected south of the Caucasus prior to Yamna?
 
do I miss something?
was R1b-M269 detected south of the Caucasus prior to Yamna?

No. But it will! :)

We were talking about narratives. So follow settlement architecture....

Edited: To me is really important that those samples in Romania and Bulgaria are coming out as R1b. I defend the centrality of Shulaveri in the R1b history (probably the only one who does it) . But I also know that they came from the south shores of black sea, and clearly had something to do with HG from Thrace and eastern balkans. The forest set them apart from the middle and south Anatolian EEF farmers. It doesn't mean there was no interactions.... is just that they remained very pastoral ( as well in Eastern balkans) long after everyone was going full agriculture. The shulaveri arrived to south caucasus highly pastoral... but also evolved agriculturalists.
 
They also report derived alleles for pigmentation and lactose tolerance. All Mesolithic samples had dark eyes, hair and skin, except one blue-eyed Spaniard. In contrast the Copper Age Romanian had fair skin, blue eyes and possibly lighter brown hair than the others. None of them had derived MC1R mutations for red hair. None of them were able to digest lactose.

It seems Blue eyes were much less common in WHG from the Balkans compared to other areas
 
It seems Blue eyes were much less common in WHG from the Balkans compared to other areas
You're right. However, even among the new Iberian samples, only one out of three had blue eyes, yes?
 
You're right. However, even among the new Iberian samples, only one out of three had blue eyes, yes?

Who is the third guy you're referring to? Out of the two Iberians here only one has them yes, but so far blue eyes were much more common in WHG elsewhere compared to those we've seen in the Balkans.

I'm wondering about the South Indian "Lilac" component in the older Iberian sample from Chan do Lindeiro now though. She also has a "Peach" component that the study doesnt discuss which she shares with La Brana, but not the girl from Los Canes. The EHG all carry the Lilac component and a few the peach component too. Any thoughts on what the Peach component is or how the South Indian ancestry got there?
 
Who is the third guy you're referring to? Out of the two Iberians here only one has them yes, but so far blue eyes were much more common in WHG elsewhere compared to those we've seen in the Balkans.

I'm wondering about the South Indian "Lilac" component in the older Iberian sample from Chan do Lindeiro now though. She also has a "Peach" component that the study doesnt discuss which she shares with La Brana, but not the girl from Los Canes. The EHG all carry the Lilac component and a few the peach component too. Any thoughts on what the Peach component is or how the South Indian ancestry got there?
Yes, sorry, one out of two, and yes blue eyes are much more common in the WHG compared to the hg population in the Balkans. Also, while the SHG had blue eyes, it seems the EHG were more mixed and in fact leaned toward brown eyes, yes?

I haven't thought about it enough yet to give a complete answer, but off- hand I'd say that SA DNA has been flowing north for thousands upon thousands of years and so it doesn't surprise me some made it's way into the EHG. Nor, given the west/east cline of Hg populations, it doesn't surprise me there would be some flow westward. I have to take a closer look at it.
 
Yes, sorry, one out of two, and yes blue eyes are much more common in the WHG compared to the hg population in the Balkans. Also, while the SHG had blue eyes, it seems the EHG were more mixed and in fact leaned toward brown eyes, yes?

I haven't thought about it enough yet to give a complete answer, but off- hand I'd say that SA DNA has been flowing north for thousands upon thousands of years and so it doesn't surprise me some made it's way into the EHG. Nor, given the west/east cline of Hg populations, it doesn't surprise me there would be some flow westward. I have to take a closer look at it.

The WHG were all dark skinned but possessed light eyes while the EHG were more likely to have light skin but possessed dark eyes. The SHG were a mix of WHG and EHG and ended up with both light eyes and skin, there was a recent paper about ancient Scandinavia discussing this.
 
Mesolithic Europeans all belonged to old subclades of R1b, such as L754, L388 or P297. All evidence points to R1b-M269 having emerged in eastern Anatolia, the southern Caucasus or western Iran (in other words around modern Kurdistan and Armenia) and having returned to the Pontic-Caspian Steppe as R1b-L23 by crossing the Caucasus.

I definitely think that possible but it still makes more sense to me R1b M269 emerged in Europe. Samara_HG had pre-R1b M73 and many of the Latvian HGs had pre-R1b M73. If a R1b M73 rich population existed in the Baltic then a R1b M269 population could have existed somewhere else in Eastern Europe.

But a West Asian homeland for R1b M269 wouldn't surprise me since EHG-WHG and CHG had common ancestry.

My point is that if R1b-V88, R1b-P297 and I2c did get to the northern Middle East during the Epipaleolithic or Early Mesolithic, they could easily have brought mtDNA K1 to the region.

K1 looks pretty old in the Middle East. It was pretty popular in the Anatolia Neolithic(20%+?) and Levant Neolithic. It has a weak presence in India, Pakistan, and Afghanistan which could mean Iran Neolithic had some K1.

The non-Basal stuff in ancient Middle Easterners could be native to the Middle East. Natufians had a bunch of WHG-type stuff but no confirmed K1 yet. The Mesolithic Balkans apparently also carried a large dose of K1. Yeah, it makes sense a K1-rich Mesolithic European group migrated to the Middle East to help form EEF but it also makes sense that K1's presence in both the Mesolithic Balkans and Middle East has more complex origin. Maybe a common ancestor between Balkan HGs and EEF not

Ever since I published my history of haplogroup K, I have maintained that K1c, K2b and perhaps also K2a were Mesolithic East European lineages that were spread by the Indo-Europeans (through their EHG ancestry). Then haplogroup K3 was found in Mesolithic Georgia, which also suggests a Pontic Steppe/North Caucasus origin for hg K. All this to say that K1c in Mesolithic Greece is Mesolithic EHG and not linked to G2a farmers.

Well that was a good call by you. But the old ways of using modern mtDNA/Y DNA is begging to look less and less able to deceiver the origin of lineages. The old assumption is that origin of a haplogroup can be determined by which region holds the most variety in the haplogroup is looking less and less able to determine the origin of a haplogroup.

Because modern day mtDNA/Y DNA diversity is not the result of gradual small scale migrations in which only some of the mtDNA/Y DNA diversity in one region goes to another. Instead it is the result of rapid mass migrations which brought most of the mtDNA/Y DNA diversity in one region to another region.

The migration of Anatolian farmers to Europe is a grand example of this. Because of tit lots of Middle Eastern mtDNA haplogroups look like they originated in Europe. This is why old studies argued mtDNA H1, T2b, J1c, V, and other typical EEF lineages originated in Paleolithic Europe.

I'm inclined to be skeptical of any argument that haplogroups other than U5/U4/U2 in Europe derive from European hunter gatherers. Because of the new K1 results from Mesolithic SouthEast Europe I'm more open to the idea but I think it's just as likely most K1c and K2a in modern Europe derive from Anatolian farmers.

Unless Balkan hunter gatherers admixed a lot into Anatolian farmers who later moved into Northern and Western Europe why would K1 outside of the Balkans derive from Balkan hunter gatherers? Other European hunter gatherers could have had lots of K1 I guess. Also Anatolian farmers could have received their K1c from Balkan hunter gatherers.
 

This thread has been viewed 20103 times.

Back
Top