Preview: Upcoming Ancient Greek Transect (Mesolithic to Medieval) from Biomuse.

That's too bad.

I found this though:

www.amth.gr

BioMuse | From bone fragments to human stories

The temporary exhibition is organized subsequent to the research program BioΜuse, which is the outcome of the synergy between Greek and German institutions aiming at digitizing, documenting and preserving valuable biological and cultural heritage data.The project's core idea was to narrate the...
www.amth.gr www.amth.gr

looks like last year one could have seen it in an exhibition.
 
PaleoRevenge said:
Another paper with samples from northern Greece.

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https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1703126263773139121
Found this tweet, there's a PCA but it's blurry.
 
It's the same autosomal map we see in most researches. It's becoming recognizable. If you download it you can also read the text (most of it).

Once again, it's clear that there is an Aegean (Mycenaen-like) population at its core. And that there are specimens which in the Roman era pull towards Anatolia and Eastern Europe in comparison to Mycenaeans.

One can even see a sample which overlaps with North Slavic countries. Probably a medieval specimen, not yet absorbed by the Greek mainframe.

The Hellenistic Macedonias probably resemble the Mycenaeans, but with more genetic variety. This may also be true for other Greek peoples during this era. As there were some new migrations since the Mycenaeans, and Asia Minor was now part of the Greek world.

But also, the fact that differences between Mycenaeans and modern Greeks are ascribed to Slavs only is somewhat overrated. As already in early Roman times, cities like Thessalonika had absorbed new elements with more Steppe admixture.
 
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Dianatomia said:
It's the same autosomal map we see in most researches. It's becoming recognizable. If you download it you can also read the text (most of it).

Once again, it's clear that there is an Aegean (Mycenaen-like) population at its core. And that there specimens which in the Roman era pull towards Anatolia and Eastern Europe in comparison to Mycenaeans.

One can even see a sample which overlaps with North Slavic countries. Probably a medieval specimen, not yet absorbed by the Greek mainframe.

The Hellenistic Macedonias probably resemble the Mycenaeans, but with more genetic variety. This may also be true for other Greek peoples during this era. As there were some new migrations since the Mycenaeans, and Asia Minor was now part of the Greek world.

But also, the fact that differences between Mycenaeans and modern Greeks are ascribed to Slavs only is somewhat overrated. As already in early Roman times, cities like Thessalonika had absorbed new elements with more Steppe admixture.
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Totally agree with you as far as admixture is concerned in large urban centers like Athens and Thessaloniki. They attract people from far and wide, traders and artisans, artists and entertainers, mercenaries and adventurers. That's why I like more testing in the small settlements and the countryside.
 
I feel like many people have lost interest in those papers or findings because they take too long. Macedonians being similar to Peloponnesians does not surprise me.
 
I can transcribe the following parts of the text:

PCA: Thessaloniki already from the foundations has high genetic variety. During the Roman period a shift towards Central-Northern Europe is observed, whereby after the fall of Rome and the emergence of the Byzantine Empire, new clusters appear to be formed ...

Admixture: The Hellenistic Roman transition is characterized by an increase of Western Hunter Gatherer (WHG) and Steppe components. These components [...] in the early and middle Byzantine period while the [...] in the late Byzantine period and prior to the Ottoman conquest.

The rest is too blurry

I compared the PCA map to the one which was made for the Mycenaeans, and added the specimens (in black squares and triangles) of the blurry picture. If one also takes the above text into consideration, then it would seem that Hellenistic Thessalonians are Mycenaean (perhaps some also Crete-Armenoi-like) as well as Cypriot-like and Aegean-Anatolian/Minoan. Hard to say how long these components have been in Macedonia.

During the early Roman era the bulk still seems similar to Mycenaeans with slightly more WHG.

In the Middle Ages two new clusters are formed. The bulk seems to shift to Greeks of Thessaloniki today. Clearly due to Slavic influence. One can also detect newcomers with more Slavic ancestry. Two outliers seem North Slavic. While there is another cluster of specimens which are more Slavic than North Greeks today, but not like North Slavs.

Please take everything with a grain of salt.

Mycenaeans.jpg
 
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During its foundation/Hellenistic the city must have been more Ionian than Macedonian hence the similarity with Mycenaeans.What they interpret as Central Euro shift is moving in the direction of something modern Italian-like(judging by their other PCA on biomuse project shown in first page which is the same) which could be caused by anything but must be because of mkd_anc like people moving in.Byzantine-era is like those Doliani and AgiosGeorgios from biomuse.


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Dorian9 said:
During its foundation/Hellenistic the city must have been more Ionian than Macedonian hence the similarity with Mycenaeans.What they interpret as Central Euro shift is moving in the direction of something modern Italian-like(judging by their other PCA on biomuse project shown in first page which is the same) which could be caused by anything but must be because of mkd_anc like people moving in.Byzantine-era is like those Doliani and AgiosGeorgios from biomuse.


View attachment 14465View attachment 14466
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Looked at that Biomuse chart as well. Mostly similar results as the one I outlined. Just that the specimens are not just from Thessalonica, but also other parts of Macedonia and Epirus. The core is Mycenaean, but with some more genetic variety than the Bronze Age Mycenaeans. A few have a little bit more WHG and some pull towards Anatolia.


Where the WHG comes admixture come from is hard to tell.
 
Dianatomia said:
Looked at that Biomuse chart as well. Mostly similar results as the one I outlined. Just that the specimens are not just from Thessalonica, but also other parts of Macedonia and Epirus. The core is Mycenaean, but with some more genetic variety than the Bronze Age Mycenaeans. A few have a little bit more WHG and some pull towards Anatolia.


Where the WHG comes admixture come from is hard to tell.
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The Channelled Ware groups/Gáva-related people which introduced urnfields/cremation and Naue II/Reutlingen swords had more WHG. Will be interesting whether they find an increase of E-V13+I2 with that increase of WHG if its real.
 
Jovialis said:
From the "World Atlas of History 1984". Pictures by me

You can click on the image and zoom in for clarity

8OqHLEs.jpg


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There is no possible invasion from the north around 1900 BCE it seems only sporadic travelers.
 
Philjames100 said:
Sporadic intruders whose intrusion is evident in the genomes of the entire population?
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The steppe origin it a dream, everybody knows Pelops come from Anatolia there is no steppe intruders that can change that.
Riverman said:
Steppe was practically absent before and then its omnipresent at double digits. This speaks for itself.
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Riverman said:
Steppe was practically absent before and then its omnipresent at double digits. This speaks for itself.
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So it’s speak about what, invasion of the steppe people in Peloponnesus, or steppe intruders.
 
blevins13 said:
The steppe origin it a dream, everybody knows Pelops come from Anatolia there is no steppe intruders that can change that.


So it’s speak about what, invasion of the steppe people in Peloponnesus, or steppe intruders.
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Since we know the precursors of the Greeks lived in the Balkans before and mixed with the locals, if you extrapolate the increase of steppe ancestry in the Greek speaking period, this was a full fledged invasion with a massive demographic impact on the Aegean. Keep in mind that you can't just count the steppe ancestry, but you need to put it into context since the steppe invaders were already mixed before. Going by that we deal with about 40 % newcomers, which is massive. About every second inhabitant in the early Greek period was a complete newcomer - and that's a rather conservative calculation, could be more.
 
I wonder if the Dorians most of all brought more Ancient Anatolian ancenstral elements into Greece.

Or that North Greece had more Anatolian influx to begin with. After all, one can simply travel to Anatolia by foot. The Dardanelles and the Bosporus are no serious physical boundaries.

Cypriots look like a mix of Mycenaeans and Ancient Anatolians. So do people from the Dodecanese. So do some early Roman era Thessalonians. So do some ancient specimens from Chalkidiki. So does the Roman era sample from marathon, Attica.

There was considerable genetic variety in Hellenistic Greece. Much more similar to modern Greece, but without the Slavic input.

Quite sure we will find E-V13 in Hellenistic Greece.
 
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