Politics Should Europeans get involved in Libya?

edao

edao

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Yesterday the French, British and Americans have AGAIN gone to war.

We have already seen from Iraq and Afghanistan that the politcal and cultural problems in the Arab world cannot be solved by taking a dicatator out of power and setting up some ballot boxes.

What can "the West" possibly hope to achieve, their UN mandate goes beyond the no-fly-zone and already members of the Arab League are complaining that the actions taken is not what they agreed.

Are we not setting ourselves up for further terrorism and more hatred for western society?

"Oil reserves in Libya are the largest in Africa and the ninth largest in the world" source

Lets be clear there are humans suffering all over the world, I'm sure the Iraq war probably killed more civilians than Sadam Hussain ever did, so this idea the West are going in for moral reason seems unjustifiable to me. Why not be upfront about the need to secure the oil reserves and just take then under international law, a civil tax can be trimmed of the profits to fund humanitarian projects in Libya.

As far as I'm concerned the situation in Libya is for the Libyans to decide for themselves let them fight their own battles. In the UK we are being sold heavy austerity and the need for cuts to bring the defecit under control for what to spend millions bombing the s**t out of some country I couldn't care less about.
 
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It's a Libyan civil war and if the Arab League want to mediate that's fine.

The Anglo-Americans and French are only interested in Libya's oil and using up their missiles to provide more work for their munition factories.

The atrocities against Zimbabwe or Rwanda are ignored (no oil) and they dare not tackle Israel (an ally) over Gaza nor China (too powerful) over her minorities.

BTW it's LIBYA.
 
Vallicanus said:
It's a Libyan civil war and if the Arab League want to mediate that's fine. The Anglo-Americans and French are only interested in Libya's oil and using up their missiles to provide more work for their munition factories. The atrocities against Zimbabwe or Rwanda are ignored (no oil) and they dare not tackle Israel (an ally) over Gaza nor China (too powerful) over her minorities.
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i couldn't agree more. hypocrite and arrogant europeans need to stay away of other continents. the world have had enough european imperialism already.
 
Canek,

You distort the facts. The rebels and the MILLION people in the town Benghazi requested the support from the UN . Especially note worthy is that Qadaffi said that he would "show no mercy to the rebels and that he would have his army go from door to door and kill them all "in front of their children".

You Canek are the hypocrite, it is the Chinese (not the Europeans) who get most of their oil from Libya, and they did not participate in the UN vote.

Look up on Google: Qaddafi vows "no mercy" as the UN eyes action

Would you rather that thousands of under-powered people be "slaugtered", who have been under the rule for almost 41 years by a "lunatic" and his henchmen? .

You speak "trash".

Post your sources and refererences and facts to support your comments.

Refute what one can see that Qadaffi is the hypocrite and arrogant man.

Or are you one that says "don't believe your lying eyes?"

Melusine
 
Melusine said:
Canek,

You distort the facts. The rebels and the MILLION people in the town Benghazi requested the support from the UN . Especially note worthy is that Qadaffi said that he would "show no mercy to the rebels and that he would have his army go from door to door and kill them all "in front of their children".

You Canek are the hypocrite, it is the Chinese (not the Europeans) who get most of their oil from Libya, and they did not participate in the UN vote.

Look up on Google: Qaddafi vows "no mercy" as the UN eyes action

Would you rather that thousands of under-powered people be "slaugtered", who have been under the rule for almost 41 years by a "lunatic" and his henchmen? .

You speak "trash".

Post your sources and refererences and facts to support your comments.

Refute what one can see that Qadaffi is the hypocrite and arrogant man.

Or are you one that says "don't believe your lying eyes?"

Melusine
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My God, a MILLION people in Benghazi requested UN help!
The phones, skypes and e-mail system must have really choked up.:laughing:

Sky News reports showed a few excitable residents running, shouting and firing guns.:thinking:

It was no Egyptian Tahrir Square scenario with hundreds or thousands of people demonstrating for change.

Of course it's about the West getting Libyan oil instead of Russia and China.
 
Edao, I agree with you for most of what you write.

But Daffie is an insane dictator, a friend of other idiot dictators like in China and also the clown Berlusconi.
The United Nations have a right to take action against a fool that kills his own people, for his own benefit.

I agree with you that Britain and the USA have a fascist agenda, and France now too.
But we can't leave the Libyan people being slaughtered by the supporters of Daffie.

I know it's a dilemma.
 
Canek said:
i couldn't agree more. hypocrite and arrogant europeans need to stay away of other continents. the world have had enough european imperialism already.
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Ahhh.. You live in Chile now..

How funny.

And European imperialism?

You mean the British?

Their empire has long gone..
 
Reinaert said:
But we can't leave the Libyan people being slaughtered by the supporters of Daffie.
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They are only creating a no-fly-zone. That is simply evening up the score for the rebels, there will be no ground troops to stop anything.

It's such a half assed effort, we want to help but we don't want to get our hands dirty, which I can full understand given Iraq. So we seem to be setting the table for some kind of civil war? I mean who decides where to draw the line, at what point is it just waring and at what point is it a humanitarian crisis?

I'm not saying there is an easy answer here.
 
edao said:
They are only creating a no-fly-zone. That is simply evening up the score for the rebels, there will be no ground troops to stop anything.

It's such a half assed effort, we want to help but we don't want to get our hands dirty, which I can full understand given Iraq. So we seem to be setting the table for some kind of civil war? I mean who decides where to draw the line, at what point is it just waring and at what point is it a humanitarian crisis?

I'm not saying there is an easy answer here.
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It's the simple declaration of human rights, where the UN is founded on.
I know it was abused by the Bush administration.
But Europe cannot let a criminal like Daffie go on like nothing happened.
In The Netherlands even the political far left wants to get rid of the murderous Daffie regime.
 
Vallicanus, your reply shows your knowledge and maturity.

And Canek:

It was the Libyan permanent Deputy of the UN that on Feb 21, 2011 first requested that the UN declare a no-fly-zone in Libya and then it was followed up by another request by the Arab League on March 12, 2011 in order to prevent the "murder" of the people of Benghazi.

The West did NOT just enter this "fray" "out of the blue for oil.

Get your facts straight .

Google Libyan no fly zone. wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libyan_no-fly-zone
 
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Melusine... Both you mention are trolls.

Don't feed them.
 
A Dutchman who thinks he is Asterix the Gaul calls ME a troll!:laughing:

How would you expect a leader like Gaddafi to behave if he were faced with sedition?
:useless:
The bottom line is that nobody has the right to intervene in the internal affairs of another nation. Nobody.

Look at the mess the Anglo-Americans have made of Iraq and Afghanistan.

The governments of China, Israel, Zimbabwe and others have slaughtered "rebels" or opponents and yet the UN does nothing apart from spouting platitudes. Not a missile in sight.

Gaddafi is just an easy target and he sits on a lot of petroleum and gas.
 
Vallic Anus..

You are totally wrong.
We are talking about a UN decision.
Even Arab countries want Daffie out of control!

How weird can you get?
 
Vallicanus said:
Gaddafi is just an easy target and he sits on a lot of petroleum and gas.
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Totally agree, that's all about mercantile interests, no one care about Libyan people in reality. That's all beautiful slogans for fools.
New puppet government will sell cheap oil to "liberators". Although Gaddafi is not a "gift" too, mix of terrorist and dictator with huge narcissistic ego.
For Russia only is bad that we lost lucrative contracts for weapon supply and railway construction in Libya.
 
And already the Arab league is pretending horror at the bombing claiming they didn't know it would be like this, rubbish. As always, manipulating the west behind the scenes to do their dirty work whilst publicly beating their breasts and pulling out their hair. When are we ever going to learn?

Well not until western governments stop seeing dollar signs anyway, anyone who thinks this is all about the people of Libya is watching too much Fox or CNN News.
 
Antigone said:
And already the Arab league is pretending horror at the bombing claiming they didn't know it would be like this, rubbish. As always, manipulating the west behind the scenes to do their dirty work whilst publicly beating their breasts and pulling out their hair. When are we ever going to learn?

Well not until western governments stop seeing dollar signs anyway, anyone who thinks this is all about the people of Libya is watching too much Fox or CNN News.
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The claims about civilian casualties from the airstrikes of the first 24 hours is, for the greater part, a sham by Gaddafi. And the Arab League, as well as Russia, are buying it without enquestioning it's truth. At this point, I would not buy anything coming out of the mouths of Gaddafi or his spokesmen.

Regarding the oil, I would like to point out that it was Gaddafi who all the time talked about the oil, not the Western powers. If you look at this military strategy in trying to put down the uprising, his key priorities were the oil hubs.

In any case, who is the most spineless in all this however is the German government. They have utterly failed to show solidarity with their allies or the Libyan people and isolated themselves internationally. While I don't know why they did this (either because they believed the rebellion in Libya was a lost cause to begin with, and it would be more useful to play low profile now and restart business with Gaddafi later, or because they wanted to play the 'Schröder 2002' card), but it's obvious they failed.
 
Imo Germany did the sensible thing Taranis. And I wouldn't say it was a cowardly decision either, only the weak follow the herd.

Anyway I suppose it is immaterial what we in the west think, what matters is how our bombing yet another Muslim and Arab country will be perceived in the Arab world.
 
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