Crime Terrorist attacks inside Brussels airport and metro

[LeBrok]

the goal of the IS terorist is to end up in heaven with 49 virgins

That's plan B. Main goal is the Caliphate and the last biblical battle, the Armageddon.

and ordinary Muslims should join non-Muslims, not the other way around

And how is this different from West helping them anytime there is a need? Came to US and Canada to see how it works. Again, it is not my fault that Belgium got lots of crappy immigrants, with crappy Muslims. Learn from us how to do it right.

 

[LeBrok]

^"ordinary Muslims should join non-Muslims, not the other way around"

Seems fair enough. It's not really time to be on the sidelines, that's for sure!



I can agree with this... It provides some insight into how many people around the world have had to live for a long time



In some ways it seems really unfair we are so secure in the US as I feel like our policies and actions have helped create negative consequences for everyone involved (other that ISIS, which we essentially helped to grow... but I think we can all agree it's still a negative consequence)... Now it seems Europe is suffering on behalf of us as well... I wish I understood the climate there better (anyone have suggested reading?)

I don't think it had much to do what America did, but it is more about what we stand. The rise of Islamic extremism was slow and steady for last 100 years, or perhaps longer. To get some details I would need to do some reading too. Sure, Americans can reach within and ask "what did they do to offend Islamists and being attacked", but I'm sure Shia muslims ask the same, and Russians and French, and all the Europe, and all Hindu Indians, or normal Muslims, and Yazidi Christians, etc. US leads the free world, is the strongest power in the world, and reaches in almost every corner of the world. As such is viewed as the force to reckon with during Armageddon. America can try to avoid IS and other extremists, but i'm sure they will find her. America, the Satan, is to be killed to fulfill the holy book, the end of world prophecy.

 

[mr_y82]

^yes, the Great Satan! Maybe I am too cynical in regards to my government... as you may read about, in my posts, in the Celtic gay gene thread...

 

[LeBrok]

^yes, the Great Satan! Maybe I am too cynical in regards to my government... as you may read about, in my posts, in the Celtic gay gene thread...

I didn't have time to expand the subject, so I only wrote the essential thoughts. Still in short however, I agree that America did bunch of mistakes and they backfire more than not. I just don't think that the biggest mess, Muslim radicals and terrorists have much to do with America or Europe doing but long and steady indoctrination with form of Nazi Islam. Hatred and annihilation of all non-believers.
We could dive in subject of postcolonial geopolitics in Near East and "smart" moves of two Bushes when time allows.

 

[Carlos]

They have lost control over the neighborhood Molenbeek


23/03/2016 25
Analysis CNI members: the Belgian anti-terrorist intelligence has been a disaster
His agents have not developed a network of informants and are overwhelmed. They have spent months asking for help to Spain

Criticism from members of the antiterrorist intelligence to the role of the Belgian secret services in recent months. They believe that they have failed to effectively control communities to identify Islamic jihadists. "The situation in Molenbeek has gone out of hand" they explain.

Belgian intelligence is "supersaturated"
The Digital Confidential sources could contact the Spanish anti-terrorist intelligence services, who confirmed that Belgium took months "struggling to avoid an attack of this nature".


As they explain these voices, the Belgian intelligence service 'Organe de Coordination pour l'Analyse the Menace' (Coordinating Body for Threat Analysis) had already warned other countries-including services Spain- that its agents "do not They cope to control all suspected of receiving notices ".


The Belgian Government, explain these sources, took months for help to foreign intelligence services to try to prevent an attack. Among them, the Spanish experts jihadism.

They acknowledge privately that the situation "has gone out of hand," especially in the neighborhood of Molenbeek, where he was arrested Abdeslam hidden after four months and where much of the Muslim community living in the Belgian capital.
Hideouts with explosives in Brussels
For the moment, according to data that currently has the Spanish intelligence, it is unknown whether the attacks in Brussels are retaliation for the arrest of the leader of the suicide of Paris, Salah Abdeslam.
However, as long as this data from the Spanish intelligence, there is a suspicion that may have stockpiles of explosives and hidden weapons Molenbeek district, considered a "sanctuary" for terrorism. There is evidence that this is where would the jihadists hiding currently in the city.
According to these voices, Belgian intelligence investigates the existence of at least two more cells in active situation, which could be preparing more attacks in the city.

Criticisms of the Belgian labor
The balance of the work of the Belgian intelligence in these last four months-from the attacks of 13-N Paris- has raised doubts among foreign intelligence services. Also in Spanish.


According to confess, it "inexplicable" to those investigating the jihadist phenomenon Abdeslam Salah has remained "hidden in a neighborhood taken by the police in a city that was literally closed by the military."


Attribute this "chaos" in the investigations to the fact that "has acted too late in Molenbeek. Until four months ago they circulated around there good terrorists and weapons that went to other countries. Belgian services do not have a network of informants or assets within the Muslim community because until recently did not believe it necessary. And it is proving them wrong "explain these voices.
http://www.elconfidencialdigital.co...inteligencia-antiterrorista_0_2678132167.html

 

[LeBrok]

the goal of the IS terorist is to end up in heaven with 49 virgins

That's plan B. Main goal is the Caliphate and the last biblical battle, the Armageddon.

and ordinary Muslims should join non-Muslims, not the other way around

Would it hurt your honor to extend your hand first to other human being? I guess it would require some initiative and friendliness on your part. Imposible?

 

[mr_y82]

I didn't have time to expand the subject, so I only wrote the essential thoughts....
We could dive in subject of postcolonial geopolitics in Near East and "smart" moves of two Bushes when time allows.

It might not be worth the bother....heh, I spent a long time being irate about those guys in my youth... too bad it's gotten so out of hand that Jeb seems like a more sane voice than the 2 GOP front runners, but that's totally off topic too...

Hope progress is possible.

 

[bicicleur 2]

They have lost control over the neighborhood Molenbeek


23/03/2016 25
Analysis CNI members: the Belgian anti-terrorist intelligence has been a disaster
His agents have not developed a network of informants and are overwhelmed. They have spent months asking for help to Spain

Criticism from members of the antiterrorist intelligence to the role of the Belgian secret services in recent months. They believe that they have failed to effectively control communities to identify Islamic jihadists. "The situation in Molenbeek has gone out of hand" they explain.

Belgian intelligence is "supersaturated"
The Digital Confidential sources could contact the Spanish anti-terrorist intelligence services, who confirmed that Belgium took months "struggling to avoid an attack of this nature".


As they explain these voices, the Belgian intelligence service 'Organe de Coordination pour l'Analyse the Menace' (Coordinating Body for Threat Analysis) had already warned other countries-including services Spain- that its agents "do not They cope to control all suspected of receiving notices ".


The Belgian Government, explain these sources, took months for help to foreign intelligence services to try to prevent an attack. Among them, the Spanish experts jihadism.

They acknowledge privately that the situation "has gone out of hand," especially in the neighborhood of Molenbeek, where he was arrested Abdeslam hidden after four months and where much of the Muslim community living in the Belgian capital.
Hideouts with explosives in Brussels
For the moment, according to data that currently has the Spanish intelligence, it is unknown whether the attacks in Brussels are retaliation for the arrest of the leader of the suicide of Paris, Salah Abdeslam.
However, as long as this data from the Spanish intelligence, there is a suspicion that may have stockpiles of explosives and hidden weapons Molenbeek district, considered a "sanctuary" for terrorism. There is evidence that this is where would the jihadists hiding currently in the city.
According to these voices, Belgian intelligence investigates the existence of at least two more cells in active situation, which could be preparing more attacks in the city.

Criticisms of the Belgian labor
The balance of the work of the Belgian intelligence in these last four months-from the attacks of 13-N Paris- has raised doubts among foreign intelligence services. Also in Spanish.


According to confess, it "inexplicable" to those investigating the jihadist phenomenon Abdeslam Salah has remained "hidden in a neighborhood taken by the police in a city that was literally closed by the military."


Attribute this "chaos" in the investigations to the fact that "has acted too late in Molenbeek. Until four months ago they circulated around there good terrorists and weapons that went to other countries. Belgian services do not have a network of informants or assets within the Muslim community because until recently did not believe it necessary. And it is proving them wrong "explain these voices.
http://www.elconfidencialdigital.co...inteligencia-antiterrorista_0_2678132167.html

it has nothing to do with intelligence
it is the result of 30 years laissez-faire
the law had no impact on these people because the mayor didn't allow the police to do their job properly

 

[bicicleur 2]

Would it hurt your honor to extend your hand first to other human being? I guess it would require some initiative and friendliness on your part. Imposible?

I wouldn't mind, but first I have to be convinced of their sincerity.

I refer to my posts 80 and 94.

 

[Angela]

And sometimes many eggs!



You come across as so rational that it would be hard to argue against you (but see if that stops me from chiming in! )... I agree with almost all of this.

I don't really think the period of "hands off" has been tried, at least not by the US (but I agree 100% that appeasement is not the answer)... Our drones are ever active, not to mention "advisors," "peace-keeping forces," etc... But there is a difference between hands-off and appeasement, even if subtle...

In my mind hands-off implies no political, economic, and military intervention, but this was pretty much a non-option given the long history of tension... However, before the era of increased terrorism, maybe we could have relied on domestic (US), Norwegian, South American, heck even Russian oil sorry Ruskies!... AND BUILT THORIUM REACTORS (why has this not caught on? can some scientist please set me straight... I know you could not weaponize it, so we ended the research, but you can make energy so incredibly efficiently from what I have read and seen... And it's not a dangerous process like modern nuclear power... taking this on the word of people much smarter than me!)... If we had truly stopped the Imperialism of the 20th century US we could have seen if hands-off was even possible... As long as we rely on them economically, there is always a conflict of interest concern...

Appeasement implies that you are being wronged, or overlooking some territorial advance (like Hitler... I don't think we need remind Europeans of this!) and you keep giving something up to prevent open conflict. Appeasement has a bad (albeit earned and well deserved) reputation for not working... If we had truly been hands-off, and the various attacks still persisted, we would have been justified in reacting accordingly (before my political awakening prior to the 2000 election, I thought I would go into the military)... Here's the problem... given the US' past, everything we do, whether well intended or not, is currently tainted with that imperial past... To deny that serves neither the West nor the Middle East, and the dirty history sheds light on the complexity of the issue as well... There is a very real source of distrust on both sides... I just want the quickest and least bloody path to a better more peaceful world while we still have a snowball's chance in hell of saving our species... I think ALL of us here agree on that front, and if it was an easy fix we'd all share the same opinion or the problem would already have been solved...

I AM NOT PROPOSING APPEASEMENT, FOR THE ATTACKS TAKING PLACE, JUST IN CASE I WAS NOT CLEAR... I think it is clear that doing nothing is not the solution... No one accused me as such, this is preemptive (like George W. Bush's war... )

If everyone would just watch some Carl Sagan and chill the f--k out we could start having a serious global conversation!

I don't mean to be brusque, but ISIS, Al Qaeda, the Muslim fundamentalist terrorist of your choice is not interested in having a conversation with you; he's interested in forcing you to convert, and if you don't he's going to shoot you or cut your head off and then take your wife and daughters. The goal, as was pointed out above, is to bring about a world wide caliphate. Perhaps even, in the most dedicated ones, to bring about the Apocalypse. I know it sounds mad, but this isn't the first mad ideology to sweep the world.

They're telling us what they want and what they intend to do. Why do so many people refuse to take them at their word, especially when they are actually doing it wherever they take control? When a husband threatens to kill and dismember his wife, and he's already done the exact same thing to a prior wife, not only should he be taken seriously, he should be taken down for everyone's safety. It's like trying to have a philosophical discussion with a rabid dog.

Appeasement in this context is when European countries, not just to protect the flow of oil and trade contracts, or even just to get votes, but in order not to rock the boat and have riots erupt in their cities, allow enclaves to grow where the inhabitants follow not the laws of their host country, but the antiquated laws of their countries of origin. It's when European women and girls in a European city can continually get harassed merely for wearing European clothing, and the police do nothing. It's when law enforcement doesn't come down like a ton of bricks on the vicious harassment rained down on Jews, a situation which has gotten so bad that we're seeing a new exodus of Jews from Europe. It's also when no one dares to say, much less do anything, about the fact that the incidence of rape has skyrocketed since the migration during the last decades of young men from countries with repressive attitudes toward women.

On a more geo-political scale it means thinking that you could let this wildfire spread throughout the Middle East and it wouldn't affect Europe or the U.S. After all, who cares if there's a genocide of Christians and Yazidis? Well, that was obviously a miscalculation. It's hitting Europe the hardest right now, but the U.S. is the big target.

As for the few pitiful sorties a day that the U.S. administration is flying in the Middle East, or the token, perfunctory aid it is giving the Kurds, yes, I do think it's the equivalent of a hands off policy.

 

[mr_y82]

I can see you points about appeasement regarding Europe...

As far as the statement about having tried hands off, I think I agreed (or meant to) that even if we are doing that in a sense now, it followed a period that built a lot of mistrust... and that cannot be overlooked in analyzing the current situation... You can't just look at a portion of the history and expect to draw accurate conclusions... I don't have the answer, but playing the card of complete historical innocence would certainly misguided (I am not accusing you of this, but do feel you are minimizing the effects of foreign policy in the 20th century....)

"After all, who cares if there's a genocide of Christians and Yazidis?"

For what is is worth, I do care.

"I don't mean to be brusque, but ISIS, Al Qaeda, the Muslim fundamentalist terrorist of your choice is not interested in having a conversation with you;"

I don't think I implied they were... I believe I just finished off a serious post with a fanciful idealistic improbability...

Thanks for the feedback.

 

[LeBrok]

I wouldn't mind, but first I have to be convinced of their sincerity.
.

You will never know, neither they, you have to take a chance. Ordinary Muslims need us now to have their back. If we fail them, they will be alienated, and more readily join extremist groups. This will create more mess and problems for us in the future. In short, helping them we help ourselves.

 

[bicicleur 2]

I don't mean to be brusque, but ISIS, Al Qaeda, the Muslim fundamentalist terrorist of your choice is not interested in having a conversation with you; he's interested in forcing you to convert, and if you don't he's going to shoot you or cut your head off and then take your wife and daughters. The goal, as was pointed out above, is to bring about a world wide caliphate. Perhaps even, in the most dedicated ones, to bring about the Apocalypse. I know it sounds mad, but this isn't the first mad ideology to sweep the world.

They're telling us what they want and what they intend to do. Why do so many people refuse to take them at their word, especially when they are actually doing it wherever they take control? When a husband threatens to kill and dismember his wife, and he's already done the exact same thing to a prior wife, not only should he be taken seriously, he should be taken down for everyone's safety. It's like trying to have a philosophical discussion with a rabid dog.

Appeasement in this context is when European countries, not just to protect the flow of oil and trade contracts, or even just to get votes, but in order not to rock the boat and have riots erupt in their cities, allow enclaves to grow where the inhabitants follow not the laws of their host country, but the antiquated laws of their countries of origin. It's when European women and girls in a European city can continually get harassed merely for wearing European clothing, and the police do nothing. It's when law enforcement doesn't come down like a ton of bricks on the vicious harassment rained down on Jews, a situation which has gotten so bad that we're seeing a new exodus of Jews from Europe. It's also when no one dares to say, much less do anything, about the fact that the incidence of rape has skyrocketed since the migration during the last decades of young men from countries with repressive attitudes toward women.

On a more geo-political scale it means thinking that you could let this wildfire spread throughout the Middle East and it wouldn't affect Europe or the U.S. After all, who cares if there's a genocide of Christians and Yazidis? Well, that was obviously a miscalculation. It's hitting Europe the hardest right now, but the U.S. is the big target.

As for the few pitiful sorties a day that the U.S. administration is flying in the Middle East, or the token, perfunctory aid it is giving the Kurds, yes, I do think it's the equivalent of a hands off policy.

yesterday Russian soldiers were in Palmyra when it was taken back from ISIS
some of them died

http://sputniknews.com/russia/20160329/1037166120/russian-hero-palmyra-named-father.html

where are the Europeans and the Americans?
doing bussiness with Erdogan !

 

[Garrick]

^doesn't sound good!



I am not qualified to answer this (Garrick's answer sounds good to me! But I am curious to research some)... You guys are obviously more aware of the current political landscape on your side of the pond... I feel like I have helped steer the conversation away from the topic, but it's still related and you guys seem tolerant of an evolving conversation.

I respect all people and everyone has right to profess and practice his or her religion to be Believer or Atheist.

Unfortunately some people do not have this luck.

We can see whole nations and communities in the Middle East and Asia Minor have disappeared in the last 100 years, some in recent times and today in front of our eyes.

And there are areas in the Balkans where are same processes, where Christians and Atheists disappeared between ten and twenty years before, and there are new areas where the same thing can happen.

Migration crisis that is still in progress showed that Greece, Bulgaria and Serbia are the last line.

Unfortunately these three states are now weak, with many problems, economic, demographic etc.

They cannot alone to cope with the many complex challenges and problems, they need support, if they not endure, the problems will be much bigger and will be moving to central Europe.

 

[Carlos]

Carlos, you are the best example why terrorism works. The odds of being killed by a terrorist in Western World is much lower than being strike by a lightning, or even lower than winning 6/49 lottery (1 in 16 million). To equate it with work hazard is unbelievably naive and irresponsible. Another IS terrorist goal is to create hate between Christians or Europeans in general and all Muslims. Judging by behaviour of many Europeans, they are achieving their goal. To beat IS and their hateful ideology, the West should support and unite with ordinary Muslims against all the extremists, ether Saudi's mullas, IS or Nazi.

On the contrary, you and people with their ideas will finally contribute to the end of the West. They do not want to realize that moderate Muslims only talk about themselves, their only concern is that not relate to the radicals, a form of survival and move on, people like you can have very good intentions, but only give time or wait for them to explode a bomb in the face and die in their bumbas will: Peace, and the world will already have changed. Go to where the ISIS and say that is a citizen of the world and then tell us what this has done, I think you can not tell us. His false kindness will kill us all, even with yourself, ask yourself if you want harakiri, others will not.

 

[LeBrok]

On the contrary, you and people with their ideas will finally contribute to the end of the West. They do not want to realize that moderate Muslims only talk about themselves, their only concern is that not relate to the radicals, a form of survival and move on, people like you can have very good intentions, but only give time or wait for them to explode a bomb in the face and die in their bumbas will: Peace, and the world will already have changed. Go to where the ISIS and say that is a citizen of the world and then tell us what this has done, I think you can not tell us. His false kindness will kill us all, even with yourself, ask yourself if you want harakiri, others will not.

Did you check the odds, or you don't believe in math and statistics? Carlos it is not the bad world but your mind paralyzing your life. Stop being so afraid. Hug the stranger, be nice to people. It might be the cure you need.

 

[bicicleur 2]

Did you check the odds, or you don't believe in math and statistics? Carlos it is not the bad world but your mind paralyzing your life. Stop being so afraid. Hug the stranger, be nice to people. It might be the cure you need.

no he didn't check the statistics, because that is beyond the point
now the casualties are still small, at least in the western world
but should we just sit and wait till the casulties become bigger?
that is at least the goal of these terrorists
their goal is not to divide the west, it is to completley destroy it

 

[Yetos]

Did you check the odds, or you don't believe in math and statistics? Carlos it is not the bad world but your mind paralyzing your life. Stop being so afraid. Hug the stranger, be nice to people. It might be the cure you need.

indeed, odds are small,

but then why all that mess? for a few tenths of humans? no need to do such mess, like a bus had an accident,
but what is it then that make this aatack repulsive?

IT IS THE CREATION OF DILEMA,
it is to stop western world think clear, and promote panic and fear among Free world,

OK TO MAKE MY SHELF CLEAR,
HOW MANY WERE THE ODDS TO DIE AT 9/11
then why such a mess after?
what is the difference among WTC and Brussels airport?
non, odds still are small,
so ok what next?
hit the white house? or EU parliament?
still odds are small,

it is where terrorists hit and why,
they hit train and Metro station, Bus station airports, why?
simply they want to panic western world, or to input fear,

PANIC, cause if you Panic you make wrong moves,
FEAR, cause if you fear, metro busses airplanes etc, you close your shelf inside the house, and leave free space for 'enemy'


and I ask,
If EURO-2016 will be cancelled,
or to Die by terrorist at a stadium at EURO 2016
how much are the odds? small?
WHO will WIN?
the terrorists? or the West?

so a small mathematic odd, if cancels a European tradition and Fiesta, BECOMES A WINNER.

 

[Carlos]

Did you check the odds, or you don't believe in math and statistics? Carlos it is not the bad world but your mind paralyzing your life. Stop being so afraid. Hug the stranger, be nice to people. It might be the cure you need.

Have you made a statistic to 20 or 30 years time? Our current problem is that of his country in the future if in the West, the known world loses this war. I know of what I speak I have embraced some 12,000 more approx. unknown in my life between Spanish and international, I take very in and for years wanted to deceive me thinking as you think, but not so confident, in the known world, Western Europe we have the enemy inside the house, from his distant galaxy is not able even to perceive the danger is West, the next will be you.


From here I call on Russia to be alert to the imminent and premeditated betrayal of other Western countries to Spain, I hope that Russia will not suffer that Spain is delivered to Islam. It's horrible belong to the place where always the fate of the world is cooked, are decisive moments, you follow in your remote galaxy, as Australians, we arrive noticas badly and late, is what has to be so far away, not just or even perceive the world as it is.

 

[bicicleur 2]

if you want statistics, in 2013 18000 people died from terrorism attacks
in 2014 it was 32000, an increase with more than 75 %
in 2015, it is unknown yet, but it is a lot more than 2014
if we go on at this rate, maybe it will be 100.000 this year
and in in another 3 or 4 year it will be 1.000.000

number 1 terrorist killer is Boko Haram, 2nd is ISIS