Really ?
The fact you are using the argument " the land was promised to us and our offspring" shows that you have no intention and probably not the knowledge to conduct a civil discourse which contains scientific data regarding population migration, genetics or even politics. This is an argument originating from religious mumbo jumbo. It has 0 value.
Were the Nazis also justified in perpetrating the holocaust to 'defend their fatherland' (a phrase they used in concentration camps) then? Or maybe the Catholic-devised pogroms in Europe during the first crusade were also justified? This is absolutely ridiculous. Genocidal talking points.
You were born in israel. Cool. So did a palestinian boy, so did their parents/ grand parents and other ancestors since centuries. Btw noone ever brought an argument for jews to "leave israel", so I have no idea why you are using this strawman. In fact your very first sentences show that you agree with me. Just like it is absurd and there is no "moral right" to any land (imagine if the moors said they have a moral right to southern spain or greeks said we ruled the coasts of anatolia for 2 millenia so we have a right to the land, or native south americans kicked all the europeans from argentina) let alone if this right, comes from religious texts. This is what happened between 1880-1930 between the arabs and the jews, during the zionism movement. Let alone that the leaders of the movement were completely secular atheists who used the bible as an excuse for the political project of an israeli state on an inhabited and settled land ( since at least 1500 years). The arabs paid for the hypocrisy and antisemitism of the europeans. There were a lot of jews ( e.g palestinian jews, marxist jews, orthodox jews, diaspora jews) that never supported the zionism movement until the 40s.
No, I am pro human. I am a humanist. I do not consider myself a chosen surrounded by subhumans to be cleansed.
Zionism was a progressive movement originally. As you said, it was secular and its purpose to make the Jews "a people like other peoples", a people that is tied to a land and no longer rootless. The founding fathers of the Zionist movement understood that much of antisemitism was provoked by the behaviour of the Jews themselves, so they sought to reinvent the Jewish people and elevate them into a nation among nations. Unfortunately the method used to pursue that rather noble objective was that of colonialism. Islam and the Arabic language are also results of a previous colonialism but the people that lived there before the Jews began to flock into Palestine were certainly more rooted in that area. Conflict was inevitable and Zionism was hijacked by religion as a means to justify this settler colonialism and ethnic cleansing. It doesn't matter if some ultra-Orthodox support or reject Zionism. Their core beliefs are that the goyim are soulless subhumans whose purpose is to serve them. Those who reject the state of Israel reject responsibility and work. They believe that they have a divine right to leech off the goyim. So when you see those anti-Zionist Haredi Jews supporting Palestinians, it is not because they are moved by their suffering. This parasitic behaviour is exactly what the original Zionists swore to weed out because they understood that only through hard work and responsibility will the Jews become a "people like all other people." It looks like they failed.
Couldn't have said it any better. To further affirm what you've said, early Zionist literature is amply clear on the nature of the process; it was firmly described as 'colonization' and parallels are often made between Palestinians and the Aztecs. Thus, indeed, the environment in which Zionism was conceived is not at all relevant to either religious scripture or Levantine society in the 19th century. It's something wholly different.
It's appalling that you're not seeing the contradiction and problem in what you're saying, you've stopped responding because you can't seriously spew what you just said above in a rational argument. Nazis justified the Holocaust as an inevitable 'solution' to the Jews living over the Germanic fatherland. You did just the deed and justified it with religious scripture.
Curious: how do you pronounce "Muslim"?
a) Herodotus certainly knew of the story. It is irrelevant whether he meet Jacob who probably did not exist. Certainty is not a good thing when dealing with ancient words that sound similar. Just stop! Philistines are a people not a geographic region.
How would know? I'm an American who speaks English. Maybe that will help!
Not only was Palestine as a whole well-populated during the 18th-19th century, which was recorded by many travelers who visited the area, the rural population comprised ~85-90% of the total population. Anyone even a tiny bit familiar with the Levant's demography and history knows that.
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