Aspurg
Banned
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- Ethnic group
- Bædzænæg
- Y-DNA haplogroup
- E-A24070
- mtDNA haplogroup
- I1a1a
Yes they do, and they seem distant. However, quite some diversity within PH2967 cluster among Albanians and we literally know very little about the J2b2 among Tosks, the Albanians who I suppose could have influenced them. We just recently got two samples from Mat who actually tested as Z1296+ Z1297- PH3120- PH1751-, who obviously represent a earlier split from the Mirdita samples (perhaps bronze age).
Well actually Tosks from the Arberesh study show some peculiarities, of 12 Tosk J2b2 there only 3 are dys19=14, which is an opposite tendency in comparison to Ghegs. None of those are of this Dukasi variety. I saw one Greek (23 STR's) and a Pole from Gdansk with these values. Until some of these appear among commercially tested, as I did with dys392=11, you connect different STR's from these studies to reach 29 STR's for this haplotype overall.
You shouldn't rely on few low res scientific study samples or base your hypothesis on them. We absolutely know nothing about them nor can we confirm that they are actually BY611 and not some sort of convergence. Fact remains Bulgarian project has over 800 testes and only about 6 or 7 of them are R1b-BY611 (3 or four of them from Macedonia) - and not even one with DYS392=11. No reason to cross borders and wander off when there is plenty of BY611 within Albania of their variety (393=12, 392=11).
First time I saw BY611's I thought of them as likely local/Illyrian. Then only after noticing dys392=11 and some L23's dys392=11 from Bulgaria I moved more to the "Eastern camp". It's true that these have not yet appeared in Bulgaria but that is true for some other Bulgarian L23's from that study (dys448=21) so the only thing we can do is wait. This way it's impossible to confirm they are BY611, even though that is likely, think about it, how common is dys392=11 in R1b, and also these are SNP L23+ so Z2103, and among Z2103's who has dys392=11 other than this Z2705 haplotype?
I'm aware some of those Bulgarian (especially Macedonian dys393=13) might turn out to be of Albanian origin.
Also there no reason to believe that BY611 has an eastern connection, when all the Z2705 upstream branches representing the earlier splits come from Italy, Spain and then England. That's the other fact or sort of the elephant in the room that we can't push aside.
Well, I was also counting on dys392=11 being negative to Z2705 and possibly connected to some of these older clades, but that turned out not to be the case. Also there are distant cousins of BY611 in the East in the form of Y5587 and BY250, but true, they are very distant.
I agree that the presence of older clades in the West is something that might turn out to be important. I also thought, as far more Westerners are tested, that some of these older clades will eventually appear among balkan ethnicities. If they don't, and that's quite possible, that might also have significant influence on BY611's distant origins.
No, he is not. The new yfull sample is kit 301843 (393=13, 392=13) and he too shares the 1300ybp TMRCA with the rest of us.
I see, well that does indicate dys392=11 is also Z2705* as there is already this Portuguese with usual (393=13, 392=13) values.