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Immigration What should Europeans do with illegal immigrants?

Tomenable said:
Gregor Gysi from "Die Linke" explains why Germany must accept refugees (tell me it's not real!)
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Gregor Gysi is a genuine, communist crackpot, don't listen to him. He's probably still sad and angry that his own country (the DDR) no longer exists, which is why he has destructive fantasies about taking the country apart that absorbed his home country and adamantly payed for rebuilding it...
 
Taranis said:
Gregor Gysi is a genuine, communist crackpot, don't listen to him. He's probably still sad and angry that his own country (the DDR) no longer exists, which is why he has destructive fantasies about taking the country apart that absorbed his home country and adamantly payed for rebuilding it...
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if you just distribute your wealth without letting the receiving people work for it, you never get gratitude
it was a big blunder made by Helmut Kohl

the unification costed Germany 10-15 years of marginal GNP growth, it is the only 10-15 years French GNP was growing faster than German GNP

that is why the present immigration could fail too
this has to be handled very careful, especialy as there is no control whatsoever on what kind of people are entering
the newcomers must get a chance, ok, but they should also be held accountable if they fail
how will you do that?
is Germany ready for that?
I have the impression Belgium is not
 
Taranis said:
That's completely ridiculous. There's not even 100 million people living in that region (the entire Mashriq, that is the Levante plus Mesopotamia, and I'm counting in Israel and the Palestinian territories). Even if Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Israel, Gaza and the West Bank were to completely empty tomorrow, that wouldn't be 100 million people. Get real.
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What strikes me as odd is that almost none of the people claiming that we need migrants to offset the demographic decline also promote natalist policies aimed at ethnic Germans.
 
Taranis said:
Jesus, where you do you folks dig up these fishy numbers? That's an urban legend from the 1990s. The second biggest Turkish city after Istanbul is Ankara (the capital city of modern Turkey), which, who might have guessed that, has more people than Berlin. What is accurate is that Berlin has one of the largest Turkish communities outside of the Republic of Turkey (perhaps the largest in Europe, yes), but there's dozens of cities in Turkey that have more inhabitants than Berlin has Turks. Unless you're going to tell us that 99% of Ankara's inhabitants are Kurds. ;-) As for the second-most spoken language in Germany, apart from English and French (which most people know as second or third language), my guess would be that the most commonly-spoken language in Germany is actually Russian.
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wow
long time no see

ok that is from 2014
map.jpg



the map is from 2014 not from 90's

at 2016 Netherlands is about to have Turkish as secondary language also

statistics given by UN, movehub,
now if from 2014 till today that changed I do not know,
But I prefer that Turks from 90's learn perfect Deutsch, so you can not recognise or hear them
while Russians probably did not yet.

now the anecdote about Berlin surely is not true,
simply the estimation of Turks at Deutschland, how much is it?
only 700 000 are non civilians currently immigrants, while estimation of today civilians and second generation is 3 000 000 and a total with those who have D passport but live elsewhere is how much?

anyway , in Netherlands are rising now and soon Turkish will be second language
 
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epoch said:
What strikes me as odd is that almost none of the people claiming that we need migrants to offset the demographic decline also promote natalist policies aimed at ethnic Germans.
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In liberal mindset natalism is related to fascist thought.
And of course they will nicely wrap it as a liberty of choice and women's right of career advancement
 
the west germans have still not sorted out the east Germans in their homelands..........what do you expect them to do with the syrians?
They will sort out the valued ones and retain them and the others will be filtered through other nations of Europe.........maybe Merkel's lapdog Renzi of Italy will take some.
 
LeBrok said:
This is also issue of money. People with money are more free in this world than people without. And it is not only about freedom of buying an airplane ticket, it is about limitation of rights. You have money you will get visa at your wish, if you are poor you will never get one.
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money is not the issue, corruption is

and it is not a black and white issue

why are you all the time looking for issues that are not there ?
 
bicicleur said:
money is not the issue, corruption is
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Explain what corruption has to do with people allowed to travel freely?!


why are you all the time looking for issues that are not there ?
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The issue is that rich people can travel wherever they want and poor people are not allowed. I guess for you it doesn't exist.
 
bicicleur said:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/russia-go-alone-syria-putin-6504744

the UN, Europe and the US have a huge responibility
they have helped Islam fundamentalism growing strong
they wanted to get rid of the dicators and created chaos worldwide
it is time they admit their failure and look for a pragmatic solution
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I can't believe you repeating this stupid mantra like a broken record. Tell us please, how long was the process of democratization of Europe and how many millions died for the cause. You might also find someone to blame for destruction of old European empires and big mess in 20th century.
 
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LeBrok said:
I can't believe you repeating this stupid mantra like a broken record. Tell us please, how long was the process of democratization of Europe and how many millions died for the cause. You might also find someone to blame for destruction of old European empires and big mess in 20th century.
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so let the genocide continue, it will bring democratization in the end

what a lame excuse
 
bicicleur said:
so let the genocide continue, it will bring democratization in the end

what a lame excuse
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Nobody is excited about all the violence in Near East now. Same as nobody was excited about 20th century carnage in Europe, or elsewhere in the world. The point was that what we see now in Near East is not a failure of Democracy or Freedoms but a process which should lead to democracy in the future. Exactly the same way it happened in Europe. Your comments imply that mess happened after dictators were disposed and chaos will rule there forever, because they are no able to run democratic countries. I said, that you could say exactly the same about Europe from WW1 to pretty much fall of communism. And heck, now it is hard to find non democratic country in Europe among all 50 of them.
 
LeBrok said:
Nobody is excited about all the violence in Near East now. Same as nobody was excited about 20th century carnage in Europe, or elsewhere in the world. The point was that what we see now in Near East is not a failure of Democracy or Freedoms but a process which should lead to democracy in the future. Exactly the same way it happened in Europe. Your comments imply that mess happened after dictators were disposed and chaos will rule there forever, because they are no able to run democratic countries. I said, that you could say exactly the same about Europe from WW1 to pretty much fall of communism. And heck, now it is hard to find non democratic country in Europe among all 50 of them.
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I reckon many Germans, Hungarians, Serbs and others are very excited about the chaos in the Middle East because of the resultant migration flow.

Also, the Middle East today is nothing like Europe in the 20th century.

The Middle East has never had very stable nation states and with the current Shia v Sunni split and the tribal and ethnic fragmentation in western Asia your view is total pie in the sky.

Where are your realistic proposals to deal with the animosity between Sunni (Saudi Arabia and her minions) and Shia Muslims (Iran and her minions) which makes peace impossible in the region.
 
Vallicanus said:
IThe Middle East has never had very stable nation states and with the current Shia v Sunni split and the tribal and ethnic fragmentation in western Asia your view is total pie in the sky.

Where are your realistic proposals to deal with the animosity between Sunni (Saudi Arabia and her minions) and Shia Muslims (Iran and her minions) which makes peace impossible in the region.
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And how many stable states there were in Europe in first half of 20 century. I'm sure fingers of one hand will be enough to calculate.
Do you remember ideological and economical animosity between the Western and Easter Europe, with nuclear war included, for almost whole 20th century?!
 
So you have no solution for the Sunni v Shia problem!
 
LeBrok said:
And how many stable states there were in Europe in first half of 20 century. I'm sure fingers of one hand will be enough to calculate.
Do you remember ideological and economical animosity between the Western and Easter Europe, with nuclear war included, for almost whole 20th century?!
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referring to 20th century Europe all the time and thinking things will resolve itself is what I would call intellectual lazyness

you even don't want to see what is actually happening in the Middle East
I don't think you see a solution but you simply don't want to admit it
you're in far away Canada and it's not your problem, at least not for the moment
 
bicicleur said:
referring to 20th century Europe all the time and thinking things will resolve itself is what I would call intellectual lazyness

you even don't want to see what is actually happening in the Middle East
I don't think you see a solution but you simply don't want to admit it
you're in far away Canada and it's not your problem, at least not for the moment
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He is in some ivory tower of his own where the real world does not enter at all.
 
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