It is the last comment I may post on this forum. Are you playing dumb?
or are u really dumb. Cant u understand thet I wrote that Britain
was so germanic as Portugal because N Portugal was
not germanic before the invasion of the suebi as England was NOT BEFORE
THE INVASION OF THE ANGLO-SAXONS!!!! MAKES SENSE NOW????
 
It is the last comment I may post on this forum. Are you playing dumb?
or are u really dumb. Cant u understand thet I wrote that Britain
was so germanic as Portugal because N Portugal was
not germanic before the invasion of the suebi as England was NOT BEFORE
THE INVASION OF THE ANGLO-SAXONS!!!! MAKES SENSE NOW????

Pedro, even if you are not as Viking genetically doesn't make you any less Portuguese or Norseman at heart. Our Ancient Ancestors used to intermarry with each other frequently after an invasion, people assimilated and even changed allegiances to preserve their reputation.

It may be true that I'm dumb but I know this. Like archaeology as well as DNA, we are growing in our understanding of the ancient world. However with archaeology and DNA, we don't have a time machine to examine the culture nor collect DNA samples. Instead, we have to discover clue and read the history in order to solve our questions; just like what a detective would do. :)
 
It is not the question that I want to be a Viking or Germanic. Simply Porto and Braga, have always been heavily Germanic, as history accounts report,culture and the high incidence of haplogroups of Germanic origin as 18% of I in Braga as well as other germanic sublcades of R1b.
The problem lies with the fact people dont want to admitt, these two
cities are genetically more germanic than most of central Europe. There is
further an input from the vikings in the area in Povoa de Varzim.
There Peolple look as norwegians, the traditional dress is like
in the coast of Norway and the boats design was influenced by vikings
long boats. You can check it on wikipedia if u like it.
 
I have no idea if the people in that particular little village are unusually fair as I don't remember ever going there.

I can tell you, however, that there's a very large community of Portuguese=Americans near me, virtually all of whom are from Braga and Porto, whom I happen to know quite well because more than a few of them have worked for me, including a young woman whom I hired "fresh off the boat", as it were. :) We became quite close to her, and through her to the community. My son was ring bearer at her wedding, and I've been to many, many affairs at the Portuguese Community Center. (great food by the way)

They're very honest, hard-working people who are faring quite well here. They are not by any stretch of the imagination Norwegian looking, however. In fact, they're quite the shortest, darkest Europeans I've ever met. Nor is there anything wrong with that in my book, for what it's worth, but it's the reality.

I've also recently been hosted at the second home she's bought in the Porto area, and while there's certainly a few fairer types in the area it is by no means some Norwegian outpost in terms of phenotype.

In terms of the frequency of certain yDna lineages, the studies are the studies. That's all we have. Someone's feeling that the number must be higher doesn't have any probative value.

You also seem to be unaware that the y lineage can be extremely uninformative as far as autosomal make-up (and phenotype) is concerned. An elite migration of men can spread their y chromosome around, and it can drift to high frequency in some villages or towns, but in less than two hundred years there could no longer be any autosomal material left in their descendants.
 
I dont know where have you been or who do you know from my region.
Telling we are short and dark is completly wrong. I am over 5´11 foot
and blue eyed. Most of my friends are about or above that height. I had ´
friends from Povoa de Varzim who were 6´3, and some were ash-blond haired.
Of course extreme light pigmentation and nordic feautures dont apply to
most of the country. But as I wrote I am only concerned about the real
inhabitants from Porto and Braga. Lots of people from other regions
of Portugal migrated to these areas, rural exodus weird? You talk about
an elite group, being 40000 suebi? Just a minor impact on the gene pool?
Most of the names and traditions of certain areas are nothern european because of what?
I haplogroup at 18 % in the area. You know what about my region? Nothing. Than you
come making assumptions about the history of my country just beacause you dont
want to admit our germanic origin. That is shameful.
 
Perhaps you could invite your local friends and relatives to take part in DNA testing. The more DNA test we get, the more accurate the results. I recommend going to a DNA testing company to test for adna instead of relying on ydna alone.
I still remember the day when we Englishmen used to think we were either 100% roman or 100% Saxon, but DNA has proved otherwise.
 
That is something I would like to do.I think the studies have already proven that the germanic component is significant. I only hate people like Angela who have some kind of inferior complex and reffuse to accept reality as it is. Coming on forum saying " I saw very dark portugueses so you cannot be germanic" which is a very scientific approach to the subject.
 
That is something I would like to do.I think the studies have already proven that the germanic component is significant. I only hate people like Angela who have some kind of inferior complex and reffuse to accept reality as it is. Coming on forum saying " I saw very dark portugueses so you cannot be germanic" which is a very scientific approach to the subject.

My dear Pedro, you are the one who raised the issue of phenotype when you claimed that the people of Porto and Braga are very "Norwegian" looking. I have seen scores of them both here and in Portugal and that's absolute rubbish. If you didn't want to discuss it, why did you bring it up?

You must also be confusing me with someone else. I have absolutely no interest in "being" Germanic, or "looking" Germanic. Given the history of my particular region and my family during the war that would be a sign of a rather severe mental disorder. Plus, I was raised by an Italian nationalist of the old school; for him, even the Celts/Gauls were barbarians whom he was sure we had sent packing. I have accepted the findings of population genetics to the contrary with as good a grace as I can muster. :)* As for the Germanic invasions, they destroyed our empire. I would celebrate it...why?

As for "science", you have been presented with the "science" in the form of yDna studies, which aren't even determinative in terms of autosomal composition anyway, which you don't seem to understand. You refuse to accept these yDna studies because they don't support your chosen narrative. The fact is that you have no data whatsoever to support you contention. So, precisely who is being un-scientific here?

Ed.
*That was a joke, Pedro, in case you couldn't tell. I'm quite content to accept all my ancestors. Neither do I hold grudges over what happened two thousand years ago.
 
Last edited:
First of all Povoa de Varzin is a town, not a little village(why say a little village because it suits
you?) Second genetic studies on northern Portugal prove we are mostly
descending from the celts(r1b3 ever heard?) Third the region I am talking about
displays 18% of I haplogroup being the historical spot where the suebi
and the viking chose to settle. The average height of northern portuguese
youngesters is 5´10 or 178 cm, not short. Italians by the way in south
look like middle eastenaers as their y-dna proves. Start to search
wikipedia about Povoa de varzim and the suebi in Northern Portugal. since
that may be the only thing you can read. I dont know what kind of
portugueses you know, they may be from south or you mistake their identities
or they are not really from norhten Portugal. Since you visit northern
Portugal I would advise to pay attention to how people look particularly
in the villages. Apologize to me should be polite by the way.
 
First of all Povoa de Varzin is a town, not a little village(why say a little village because it suits
you?) Second genetic studies on northern Portugal prove we are mostly
descending from the celts(r1b3 ever heard?) Third the region I am talking about
displays 18% of I haplogroup being the historical spot where the suebi
and the viking chose to settle. The average height of northern portuguese
youngesters is 5´10 or 178 cm, not short. Italians by the way in south
look like middle eastenaers as their y-dna proves. Start to search
wikipedia about Povoa de varzim and the suebi in Northern Portugal. since
that may be the only thing you can read. I dont know what kind of
portugueses you know, they may be from south or you mistake their identities
or they are not really from norhten Portugal. Since you visit northern
Portugal I would advise to pay attention to how people look particularly
in the villages. Apologize to me should be polite by the way.

Apologize for what? For pointing out the obvious? The published y Dna data doesn't support your position. Therefore, there is no scientific support for your position. End of that story.

No autosomal analysis of these people has been done to my knowledge, but there's certainly been autosomal analyses by the score of Iberians. They are not "Germanic", to put it mildly. Nor do they cluster anywhere near the Irish or the British on any PCA I've ever seen. According to the Ralph and Coop IBD analysis, there's virtually no autosomal impact of the Germanic invasions in Iberia.

Next...I begin to suspect you've never even been to Porto and Braga. If you had, there's no way you could be saying these things. I also repeat: you are the one who brought up phenotypes. I don't know why you're unhappy about the phenotypes of the majority of the people of Porto and Braga, but that isn't my problem. I'm more than happy with the looks, the personality, and the make-up of my own.

If you find some dna results that support your claim that the people of Porto and Braga not only have yDna but autosomal results that prove that they are very "Germanic" in make-up let me know. Otherwise, I'm not interested.
 
If you knew a little of genetic studies you would realize people
from Porto and Braga are genetically more germanic than most of central Europe.
You dont read what I tell you to, and you dont know about the atlantic
model haplotype. You are a just an italian with an inferiority complex.
The word to describe your attitude would be ignorant, you reffuse to
learn.I am over 5´11, blue eyed and I am from that region, my grandma
had ash-blond hair. Tell me how on earth are we distant from the northern
europeans. Some germans look less german than myself.
 
I am truly overwhelmed by the number of tall, blonde Nordics in that town. Oh, and I won't stop you from posting unsupported beliefs, but one more insult directed at me or any other poster or any ethnic group whatsoever and you'll get an infraction. Calling people dumb qualifies. They can add up quickly. Ask some of your friends.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sF-FgrXxmyc


 
The only insulteous person, were you.You try to rewrite the history of my region against scientific work. If this forum is about that,
this may be my last post.
See that you end up agreeing that we are nordic.
 
The only insulteous person, were you.You try to rewrite the history of my region against scientific work. If this forum is about that,
this may be my last post.
See that you end up agreeing that we are nordic.

Now that would be heart breaking.

As I said, when you have scientific data be sure to share it. After all, genotype does not necessarily equal phenotype. In the meantime, as you can see, they have very nice festivals in the Porto and Braga area. I had a great time there. You should pay a visit and connect with your roots.
 
I refuse to believe this Pedro fellow is being 100% serious. Surely this is someone pretending to be Portuguese and trying to give the Portuguese people a bad name on this website?

Of course the Suevi left their mark in N. Portugal/Galicia, essentially in a bunch of personal names, some vocabulary, the "sh" sound for the letter S before consonants (as in German), which is unique among Romance languages, the economic model of small, independent rural properties, and the very peculiar Portuguese names for the weekdays (which were invented by Suebi bishops, if I remember correctly).

But I think the deeper question is: what is behind this Germanic/Viking fetish that so many Southern Europeans on this forum seem to have? I emphasize "this forum", because in real life, I've never met any Portuguese, Italians or Spaniards displaying this obsession. At the end of the day, the Suevi genetic legacy must realistically be no larger than that of other invaders, i.e. Romans, Moors etc.
 
I refuse to believe this Pedro fellow is being 100% serious. Surely this is someone pretending to be Portuguese and trying to give the Portuguese people a bad name on this website?

Of course the Suevi left their mark in N. Portugal/Galicia, essentially in a bunch of personal names, some vocabulary, the "sh" sound for the letter S before consonants (as in German), which is unique among Romance languages, the economic model of small, independent rural properties, and the very peculiar Portuguese names for the weekdays (which were invented by Suebi bishops, if I remember correctly).

But I think the deeper question is: what is behind this Germanic/Viking fetish that so many Southern Europeans on this forum seem to have? I emphasize "this forum", because in real life, I've never met any Portuguese, Italians or Spaniards displaying this obsession. At the end of the day, the Suevi genetic legacy must realistically be no larger than that of other invaders, i.e. Romans, Moors etc.

I hope you're not including me in that group?
smile.gif
Sometimes I feel like I'm Alice after she's fallen down the rabbit hole.
startled.gif


Not that only some bizarre sub-group of southern Europeans have been infected. Nordicism is sort of an equal opportunity disorder. Still, if the people espousing it are northern Europeans it makes a modicum of sense even if it's intellectually and morally bankrupt.

More than once I've been tempted to find myself another intellectual hobby. I mean, how much can one really read about the Indo-Europeans, especially when it comes with all this associated claptrap? At least here we insist on actual data, and we mix it up a bit in terms of interests both genetic and in terms of the broader European context, as you'll find if you stick around.
 
I hope you're not including me in that group?
smile.gif
Sometimes I feel like I'm Alice after she's fallen down the rabbit hole.
startled.gif


Not that only some bizarre sub-group of southern Europeans have been infected. Nordicism is sort of an equal opportunity disorder. Still, if the people espousing it are northern Europeans it makes a modicum of sense even if it's intellectually and morally bankrupt.

More than once I've been tempted to find myself another intellectual hobby. I mean, how much can one really read about the Indo-Europeans, especially when it comes with all this associated claptrap? At least here we insist on actual data, and we mix it up a bit in terms of interests both genetic and in terms of the broader European context, as you'll find if you stick around.


Angela, you're most definitely not a part of that group. I never see you attaching or conditioning your Italian pride to being Germanic/Viking/Celtic etc. On the contrary, I always see you trying to put some sense into these Southern nordicists' heads, but it doesn't seem to have much effect.
 
Well let's just say the suebi and vikings left a kind of big print in the area culture wise and it is fairly normal that people with a kind of germano-celtic culture want to be that same way in dna.It is just ordinary, sincerely I am from a family with a lot of germanic attributes, though I do not believe I will be that much germanic in genetics (autosomal dna), about what angela said I would never say it is a lie, portuguese are a mixture of many peoples over the years and some darker phenotypes happen sometimes, for example I have a cousin, her mother has blonde hair and is very white, her father is a little darker and she when tanned could be confused with a north african for example and in both sides of her family noone looks even a bit close to her. About the people looking germanic, I would say it is about 10-20% of the population of this area that could pass unnoticed in germany or austria, actually I have an austrian friend from tyrol near innsbruck and he looks like my uncle.
About the comments made on this forum it is no way possible that north portugal will be as germanic as germany or austria, we all know that the source of the germanic peoples will always be the place with more germanic people.
 
As a conclusion to my later post I would had that I am not even a little nordicist nor I will ever be, it is more a question a curiosity that I search these kind of matters and in my point of view it is very impolite to say to someone that I am superior because of my genetic background. Yes it is more than true that there are more people in north portugal with germanic caratheristics but not even close to other european countries. If I had to describe myself by the common terms of european genetics I would be neither nordic nor alpine nor mediterranean nor dinaric. I would say I am portuguese a short fellow with light skin and a kind of germanic look with green eyes ,but germanic, I don't think so if I had to make an estimate and cuting out small people movements I would say I probably descend from the celts and the peoples that they overtook like 90% the rest I would leave to germanic and even who knows berber countributions. And no the portuguese are not racists, we have our problems mainly with gypsies but not with anyone else.
 
If you knew a little of genetic studies you would realize people
from Porto and Braga are genetically more germanic than most of central Europe.

If you think people from your region have a lot of Germanic ancestry take a DNA test. It'll tell you if you have a lot of Germanic ancestry. It'd be really interesting if your region of Portugal are descended from Goths.

I am over 5´11, blue eyed and I am from that region, my grandma
had ash-blond hair. Tell me how on earth are we distant from the northern
europeans. Some germans look less german than myself.

There's many differnt physical appearances in ethnic groups. Two differnt people from the same town can look completely differnt. And two people from differnt ethnic groups can look identical to each other. There isn't a single look for every group of people in the world. Your family having pigmentation traits most popular in North Europe doesn't mean you have ancestry from there.

I found this interesting. It's examples of Scandinavians with Mediterranean-type pigmentation: Dark Scandinavians/Northern Germanics. All of a sudden they look South European. A similar thing might be going in your family.

001484_48.jpg
ballack.jpg
 

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