Genetic structure of the early Hungarian conquerors inferred from mtDNA and Y-DNA

According to Révész László sample no.12 (I2a) have three symbolic skull-trephinations.

This is another thing we must sometimes go after. You seem to be extremely well informed about hungarian anthropological and archaeological issues, as if these textbooks were on your shelf and read them in Hungarian....
 
This is another thing we must sometimes go after. You seem to be extremely well informed about hungarian anthropological and archaeological issues, as if these textbooks were on your shelf and read them in Hungarian....

I am a csan-go musician and my wife is Diego a+b+.
 
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Other authors writing about Goths were Procopius and Isidore of Seville but they tell their deeds in the Roman Empire. I think that as the Pontic Steppes fall into the Byzanthine sphere of influence the main sources might be taken from there. I suppose that tracking the history of the Crimean Goths could provide more information. By the way I think that if such Goths were able to stay in the Pontic steppes would be because they were not more attached to the land in an economical sense, maybe they were citizens involved in trading or so, and by that they would have had better chances to overcome Huns, Cumans, Petchenegs, Bulgars, etc. ... but speaking frankly the steppes were a kind of ethnic mill.
 
Other authors writing about Goths were Procopius and Isidore of Seville but they tell their deeds in the Roman Empire. I think that as the Pontic Steppes fall into the Byzanthine sphere of influence the main sources might be taken from there. I suppose that tracking the history of the Crimean Goths could provide more information. By the way I think that if such Goths were able to stay in the Pontic steppes would be because they were not more attached to the land in an economical sense, maybe they were citizens involved in trading or so, and by that they would have had better chances to overcome Huns, Cumans, Petchenegs, Bulgars, etc. ... but speaking frankly the steppes were a kind of ethnic mill.

What if samples 1 and 3 are not R1b?
 
I have asked for the sequence, two hungarians from Karos1 are nearly identical....
 
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1469-1809.2008.00440.x/full

To elucidate this question we attempted to screen 8 skeletal remains, from the age of the Hungarian Conquest, for the Tat C polymorphism, using bones from which ancient mtDNA fragments had been successfully recovered, which were therefore good candidates for Y-chromosomal analysis. Four of the 8 examined contained detectable Y-chromosomal DNA after whole genome amplification. Out of these, two possess the Tat C mutation. In case of the sample anc19 the presence of the ancestral Tat T allele was confirmed by typing the ancestral state (C allele) of the marker M9 (C→G)...

"Four of the 8 examined contained detectable Y-chromosomal DNA after whole genome amplification. Out of these, two possess the Tat C mutation."

But there is two more samples!!! What's their haplogroup? And what is the haplogroup of Ladislaus I of Hungary and King Béla III/ Coloman the Bookish ?
 
Ask the authors... in short I do not trust these data, because they only tested Tat, on very few samples with early technology. Nevertheless according to our preliminary Y data N1c (Tat) is present in the conquerors, frequency unknown. The origin of this allele is in east-middle Asia, so not necessarily a finno-ugric marker.

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Several explanations have been suggested for the striking absence of Tat C in the linguistically Uralic modern Hungarian population (Rootsi et al., 2000; Semino et al., 2000b). One is that Voguls and Ostyaks, and many other Siberian populations obtained this Y-chromosomal lineage only relatively recently, after the ancestors of the Magyars had left the Siberian forests for the great Eurasian steppe. Another is that Hungarians and Siberian Ugric-speaking populations have always been genetically unrelated despite their linguistic affinities. A third possibility is that the ancestral Magyars did have the Tat C allele, but lost it through genetic drift during their migration to Hungary, or after their settlement there.

My favorite :"...Voguls and Ostyaks, and many other Siberian populations obtained this Y-chromosomal lineage only relatively recently..."

The Tat C allele was found to be frequent not only among the Finno-Ugric populations but also among Latvians and Lithuanians.
 
Rurikid Dynasty DNA Project

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/rurikid/default.aspx?section=news

The Russian Newsweek tested the first two Rurikid princes. The first one was Prince Dmitri Mikhailovich Shahovskoi of Paris, France, the prominent Professor at the Russian Orthodox Institute, who made the 1st Y-DNA test in the Rurikid Dynasty (at the end of 2006). Unexpectedly, he was found to belong to the genetic haplogroup N1c1 – the so-called “Finno-Ugrian”. Later, however, it was discovered that the N1c1 Rurikid princes belong to the so-called “Varangian Branch” in this haplogroup. This branch is one that is quite different from the present population of Finland (which is the “Finno-Karelian Branch”).


SNP-N-TREE-FIN.jpg


FTDNA%20N-L550%20SNP%20Map%20-%207th%20of%20December%202016_zps9nf5xbq6.jpg


FTDNA%20N-L1025%20SNP%20Map%20-%207th%20of%20December%202016_zpsfzk0rd7b.jpg
 
http://biorxiv.org/content/early/2016/12/07/092239

[h=2]Abstract[/h]As part of the effort to create a high resolution representative sequence database of the medieval Hungarian conquerors we have resequenced the entire mtDNA genome of 24 published ancient samples with Next Generation Sequencing, whose haplotypes had been previously determined with traditional PCR based methods. We show that PCR based methods are prone to erroneous haplotype or haplogroup determination due to ambiguous sequence reads, and many of the resequenced samples had been classified inaccurately. The SNaPshot method applied with published ancient DNA authenticity criteria is the most straightforward and cheapest PCR based approach for testing a large number of coding region SNP-s, which greatly facilitates correct haplogroup determination.
 
torokt:For me possible Xiongnu relation of Hungarians is even a larger surprise.


Do you mean the Asian B and A mtDNA haplogroups?

THE NANAI CLAN SAMAR: THE STRUCTURE OF GENE POOL BASED ON Y-CHROMOSOME MARKERS
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1563011015001294

Members of the Nanai clan Samar reside in the Gorin area of the Khabarovsk Territory. Their gene pool was studied using the SNP markers of the Y-chromosome. The major haplogroup, occurring in more than 83% of clansmen, is the northern Eurasian haplogroup N1c1-M178. Four other haplogroups are С*-М130, I*-M170, J2a1а-M47, and O2-P31.

I*-M170 is quite interesting.
 
THE NANAI CLAN SAMAR: THE STRUCTURE OF GENE POOL BASED ON Y-CHROMOSOME MARKERS
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1563011015001294

Members of the Nanai clan Samar reside in the Gorin area of the Khabarovsk Territory. Their gene pool was studied using the SNP markers of the Y-chromosome. The major haplogroup, occurring in more than 83% of clansmen, is the northern Eurasian haplogroup N1c1-M178. Four other haplogroups are С*-М130, I*-M170, J2a1а-M47, and O2-P31.

I*-M170 is quite interesting.
The area locates near port Vladivostok. So it is possibly from Russian. However, is N1c1-M178 related with Tungus people?
 

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