J2b1-M205 introduced to Eupedia

Dema said:
absolutely no, that was a slight mistake by Serbian project to associate this haplogroup exclusively with Kriči tribe. But i dont blame them since they didnt know better before and there was very little information. Nebojša N. should know this since he is Y22063+ just as me and Kriči are negative to Y22063 meaning that both mine and his line have distance 1200 years from Kriči tribe and that we were definitely not part of Kriči tribe but rather some smaller side lines.

Yes all Balkan Slavs who carry this haplogroup were probably Albanian language speakers, they were assimilated into Illyrians since time of Imperial Rome. They become Slavs after Slavs conquered their native lands where they lived and therefore assimilated these lines.
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Also Dema How would I be able to post my results after my dna test finishes
 
mrdinar1 said:
Also Dema How would I be able to post my results after my dna test finishes
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I think ancestry dna will not give you specific SNP below J2-M205, but you are most likely Y22059+, and therefore share TMRCA of 1200 years with rest of us. There is not much to say, this haplogroup is today carried mostly by Serbs, but they were not Serbs before..
Just like entire Serbia was Illryian and Albanian before from Sremska Mitrovica birthplace of Marcus Aurelius Probus of Illyrian origin to the Niš birthplace of Constantine the Great of Illyrian origin. And most of Balkan was Illyrian including Bosnia, Croatia, Slovenia, and so on.... Slavs, Magars, Bulgars and others arrived later.... Slavs arrived before 1200 years from Poland - Russia - Ukraine....
Serbs assimilated a lot of Albanian haplogroup of which E-v13 is most visible. Other south Slavs dont have so much E-v13 but Serbs do because of Albanian proximity.
 
Also i got asked by few Italian members about J2-M205 in Italy because i said this haplogroup spread with Romans. Yes this is true, there are strong indications that all European J2-M205 spread with Roman Empire, but it probably entered Italy with Phoenicians controlling South Italy prior to Punic Wars, or when one of the greatest generals in history Hannibal Barca crossed Alps with elephants and therefore invaded Romans. This haplogroup can be directly associated with Akkadian Empire, Babylonians, Assyrians, Phoenicians, Roman Empire and so on.... Very similar to J1 haplogroup but smaller.
 
TaktikatEMalet said:
It spread in the Balkans with Roman Anatolians
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Y222059 is so far mystery how and when it arrived to Balkan. But generally J2-M205 after ancient Sidon (1600 BCE), it starts to appear in Imperial Roman bones, gladiator in England and sample from central Rome. No much connection with Anatolia.

Also we know that Augustus conquered Illyrians, and he was first of Imperial Romans.
 
Dema said:
Y222059 is so far mystery how and when it arrived to Balkan. But generally J2-M205 after ancient Sidon (1600 BCE), it starts to appear in Imperial Roman bones, gladiator in England and sample from central Rome. No much connection with Anatolia.

Also we know that Augustus conquered Illyrians, and he was first of Imperial Romans.
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It is not much of a mystery, if it wasn't Anatolian it was from somewhere in middle east - https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Y22075/
 
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TaktikatEMalet said:
It is pretty clear that it was brought by Romans to Balkans from the middle east, the latest study which shows heavy Roman Anatolian input also backs this up. This line doesn't have anything to do with illyrians

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Looks like you haven't read anything also projecting things i never said, i have no intention to repeat everything just for you...
I have never said the line is Illyrian but i clearly stated its Punic in origin. Do you know that Phoenicians controlled Mediterranean Sea all the way from Lebanon to the Spain, including parts of Africa and Italy. Until they fall under Romans, and the same happened to the Illyrians. I dont understand why are you giving me some silly links that i already studied many years ago. There is my BigY result on Yfull i am very aware of Yfull development, what is your point ?

Do you know that this alphabet you are using right now is also from Middle East and its Phoenician in origin ?

Do you know J2-M205 was found in ancient Sidon that was most powerful Phoenician city and its dated 1600 BCE.
 
Dema said:
Looks like you haven't read anything also projecting things i never said, i have no intention to repeat everything just for you...
I have never said the line is Illyrian but i clearly stated its Punic in origin. Do you know that Phoenicians controlled Mediterranean Sea all the way from Lebanon to the Spain, including parts of Africa and Italy. Until they fall under Romans, and the same happened to the Illyrians. I dont understand why are you giving me some silly links that i already studied many years ago. There is my BigY result on Yfull i am very aware of Yfull development, what is your point ?

Do you know that this alphabet you are using right now is also from Middle East and its Phoenician in origin ?

Do you know J2-M205 was found in ancient Sidon that was most powerful Phoenician city and its dated 1600 BCE.
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Ah my bad, thought you were implying it was Illyrian.
Are you able to update the map? It is equally present in south (gjirokaster), north albania (shkoder) and kosovo
 
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Some time has passed so... I am a north east Italian from Sottomarina, coast of north east Italy, built around the Lombard community of our St Michael monastery of Brondolo. I am j-M205. Of all the people tested I know in the north of my nation, I'm the only one. I have no clue about the cluster but maybe I will take an appropriate test soon. I have no idea how this haologroup arrived here. My idea is from the Balkan with the republic of Venice, or from remnants of the sea people during the Roman empire, or even with the eastern Roman empire.
Thank you all for the information I read here especially @Dema
 
Arnguth said:
Some time has passed so... I am a north east Italian from Sottomarina, coast of north east Italy, built around the Lombard community of our St Michael monastery of Brondolo. I am j-M205. Of all the people tested I know in the north of my nation, I'm the only one. I have no clue about the cluster but maybe I will take an appropriate test soon. I have no idea how this haologroup arrived here. My idea is from the Balkan with the republic of Venice, or from remnants of the sea people during the Roman empire, or even with the eastern Roman empire.
Thank you all for the information I read here especially @Dema
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It is from Levant brought to Europe by the Romans, nothing to do with ancient Balkans or Sea Peoples.

Ancient samples -

Modern distribution, it is still more common in middle east than Europe -

J-M205 YTree

www.yfull.com www.yfull.com
 
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TaktikatEMalet said:
It is from Levant brought to Europe by the Romans, nothing to do with ancient Balkans or Sea Peoples.

Ancient samples -

Modern distribution, it is still more common in middle east than Europe -

J-M205 YTree

www.yfull.com www.yfull.com
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Thank you @TaktikatEMalet .

I know it has nothing to do with ancient balkans, but I was asking myself if it can be tied to Carthaginians or Peleset for example, since it is found also in places they touched, that's why I was also wandering about Sea People.
 
Arnguth said:
Thank you @TaktikatEMalet .

I know it has nothing to do with ancient balkans, but I was asking myself if it can be tied to Carthaginians or Peleset for example, since it is found also in places they touched, that's why I was also wandering about Sea People.
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I think we have yet to find J-M205 in iron age Europe, for now best possibility is Roman era Levantines unless we find ancient DNA in Europe.
 
TaktikatEMalet said:
I think we have yet to find J-M205 in iron age Europe, for now best possibility is Roman era Levantines unless we find ancient DNA in Europe.
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So it was basically assyrian/akkad and canaanite in origin ? Were also Carthaginians/Phoenicians or Hittites involved in its spreading ? Sorry for my very ignorant questions. I'm new to this kind of topics.
 
Arnguth said:
So it was basically assyrian/akkad and canaanite in origin ? Were also Carthaginians/Phoenicians or Hittites involved in its spreading ? Sorry for my very ignorant questions. I'm new to this kind of topics.
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I would not advice you to listen to that guy since he obviously is not enough informed about haplogroup and about history. I doubt he even heard about Carthage, Phoenicians or Akkadian Empire. His throwing of random theories is really at a low level. First of all he does not understand the difference when we talk about J2-M205 in general, European J2-M205 samples, or Balkan J2-M205 cluster.
 
Arnguth said:
Thank you @TaktikatEMalet .

I know it has nothing to do with ancient balkans, but I was asking myself if it can be tied to Carthaginians or Peleset for example, since it is found also in places they touched, that's why I was also wandering about Sea People.
Click to expand...
TaktikatEMalet said:
It is from Levant brought to Europe by the Romans, nothing to do with ancient Balkans or Sea Peoples.

Ancient samples -

Modern distribution, it is still more common in middle east than Europe -

J-M205 YTree

www.yfull.com www.yfull.com
Click to expand...
Amount of incredible stupidity thrown here is amazing. Do you understand that since J2-M205 is found in Sidon 1600 BCE it means its one of original Phoenician lines therefore it controlled most of Mediterranean Sea. Do you understand that Italians and Albanians and therefore Illyrians are also Mediterranean people and that J2-M205 is native to the Mediterranean Sea from Lebanon to the Spain. It was not brought by Romans but it actually colonized most of Mediterranean Sea including parts of Africa, Spain, and Italy. Phoenicians invaded Romans and fought them multiple times also in Italy. They were not brought by Romans. J2-M205 is one of oldest Mediterranean haplogroup and first ships that were sailing Mediterranean Sea were sailed by J2-M205 members. But when we talk about European J2-M205 we can assume that it was mostly spread with Romans. And of course that Balkan cluster of J2-M205 has to do everything with Illyrians because it arrived on Balkans in time of Illyrians in most glorious times in human history in times of Roman Empire. Go read and learn and don't throw radnom stupidity here.
 
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Dema said:
Amount of incredible stupidity thrown here is amazing. Do you understand that since J2-M205 is found in Sidon 1600 BCE it means its one of original Phoenician lines therefore it controlled most of Mediterranean Sea. Do you understand that Italians and Albanians and therefore Illyrians are also Mediterranean people and that J2-M205 is native to the Mediterranean Sea from Lebanon to the Spain. It was not brought by Romans but it actually colonized most of Mediterranean Sea including parts of Africa, Spain, and Italy. Phoenicians invaded Romans and fought them multiple times also in Italy. They were not brought by Romans. J2-M205 is one of oldest Mediterranean haplogroup and first ships that were sailing Mediterranean Sea were sailed by J2-M205 members. But when we talk about European J2-M205 we can assume that it was mostly spread with Romans. And of course that Balkan cluster of J2-M205 has to do everything with Illyrians because it arrived on Balkans in time of Illyrians in most glorious times in human history in times of Roman Empire. Go read and learn and don't throw radnom stupidity here.
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Haha nice dream you had there, you claim I am stupid and then post this baseless nonsense. I have shown you the ancient samples, they are all from Levant. J-M205 has never been found in iron age Dalmatia, it had nothing to do with illyrians and they predate Roman arrival in Balkans by 600+ years, go read some more.
 
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Dema said:
I would not advice you to listen to that guy since he obviously is not enough informed about haplogroup and about history. I doubt he even heard about Carthage, Phoenicians or Akkadian Empire. His throwing of random theories is really at a low level. First of all he does not understand the difference when we talk about J2-M205 in general, European J2-M205 samples, or Balkan J2-M205 cluster.
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What about the Sherdan j2b1 from Sardinia? Do you know anything about it ?
 
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