slavic, germanic and others for the fun

[MOESAN]

some more forms :
I write 'rPI' for 'reconstitued Proto-Irish' (personal naming for an indtermined period between common celtic and old irish) : sometimes the forms show a graphy very close to old irish, sometimes more archaïc (and phonetic) – 'OC' : 'Old Celtic'


spit *beru- (rPI) / *brocca (rPI) see frenchbroche
spear beru- (OC), *beru- (rPI) / gaesa (Gaul-)
arrow *keras (rPI)
bow ???
club (what kind?) spundo, sundo (OC) / *kaullio (rPI) / *masdo-, *maddio- (rPI)
mass (what kind?) *mello (rPI) see Bret- mell-houarn (« iron mallet »)
sword ??? no word (in my index, but surely something as °clad-em- / °clad-io-)
see Gaul- cladios
dagger *bid-dio- (rPI)
shield skeito (OC?) see french écu << escu(t)low-latin (from celtic?) scutarius
: (« the one who bears the shield ») the word appears in french texts only about
1080 (Rolland story) as does bucler >> boclier >>mod-frenchbouclier, from
escu bocler: « shield with a lump », Lat- *buccularis << bucca

 

[MOESAN]

Can you help me out with this word in Latvian:
Dēls - son. My main problem. IE languages around have sunus, sin, sohn. Finnic has poeg, poika. Could it be related to -dahl as in Heyerdahl? Seems not. Wiki says dahl is valley.

sorry, I found only a close phonetical form which could be lonked to a meaning of "to separate" (to part) and we could imagine with the help of somê drog a son as the separate part of the father, a kind of "twigg"??? (as Eva formed upon Adam flank!) BUT..............very acrobatic

 

[MOESAN]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Yetos, Nfrank :[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]OK for the [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]ag-/ak [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]root (« protuding »?)[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]OK for a [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]*kr- (2) [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]root (« curved »)[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]english and other today germanic « daughters » seem to show a possibly faded out I-E *[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]-k- after [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]'S' and before[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]other consonnant, without a fricative 's' [/FONT]/S/[FONT=Times New Roman, serif] « [] » : ? [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]s-[] << s-h-[] << s-X-[] << s-k-[] ???[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]to snap - to snip - to snik[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] – dutch [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]snijden (schneiden)[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]the [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]'s-k-' [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]sequence (sic!) occurs very often with the meaning of « cutting », « [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]sep[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]arating »...[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Lat-Rom- (and loans or germanic cognates) : [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]secator/sécateur, section, disséquer , scinder (to dissect - to excind – to skive – to shave – to skin)[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Pokorny gave : [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]*s[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]ĕ[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]k- / *skei- / *(s)kel- / *(s)k[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]ĕp – *(s)k(h)ed- [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]with apparented basic meanings like « to cut », « to skin », »to shave »... the IE *S- is maybe a reinforcing prefix because it seem added in a lot of words of a lot of I-E today languages - [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]modern english shows an heavy tendancy to turn french words in [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif](e)scl- [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]into [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]sl- [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]words, too... when [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif](e)scr- rather [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]gives [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]shr- [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]words ?[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]sword [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif](« doubtful etymology) could be a °[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]s-k-w- [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]ancient word ??? (just a bet)[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]germanic could have had vey ancient dialects or some words retained from the famous 'northwest I-E' with different treatments of the [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]s-k-[]-[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] groups ? Today dutch has 'sch-' [/FONT]/sX-//SX-/[FONT=Times New Roman, serif] german and flemish and anglo-saxon have 'sch' [/FONT]/S-/ [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]and frisian/scandiavian have 'sk-'[/FONT] /sk-/ [FONT=Times New Roman, serif](-sometimes [/FONT]/S/ [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]before 'I' …) [/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]just some matter to thinking (I lack a complete tableau of ancient dialects)[/FONT]

 

[arvistro]

sorry, I found only a close phonetical form which could be lonked to a meaning of "to separate" (to part) and we could imagine with the help of somê drog a son as the separate part of the father, a kind of "twigg"??? (as Eva formed upon Adam flank!) BUT..............very acrobatic

It seems to come from IE root that is *dʰeh₁(i)- to suck/suckle. Now I regret we dont have the boring version of son
According to this site son originates from *sew- press. Here my English fails me. Press?

reference: http://indo-european.eu/wiki/index.php/Proto-Indo-European_roots

 

[Vedun]

"In contrast Germanic people was called with an exonym "Nemci", meaning people who don't speak (a slavic language)."

No, 'linguists' who study several slavic and non slavic etymological origins of words are mostly totally wrong.
The word 'nemci' does not derive from "people who do not speak", but from "NE-MI-CI" (with ending "ci" for plural). The correct transliteration is "Not us" (Ne mi). The word for Dutch in western Slavic ('wendic') was/is Nizozemci, which means "Not within our Lands" + plural of "ci". Another transliteration was Nižezemci; "lower land" - which is also a western transliteration and name for Nether-land. (lower land).

In Slavic, Trojan, Etruscan, Lithuanian is "Land" called Zemla (also note the Etruscan, Phrygian(Breg; "berg"; mount; around the high Anatolian plateau) goddess Semele or Zemla).
Another form for "land" was deza(Sanskrit) or desh(Hittite) or dežela (Slovene). The Hittite city of Kadesh (Ka- as Kat or Het or Khet or "Cat"; Hittite) for example simply meant "Hittite land" or "Land of Cats (кот, кіт; "kotat"(to crawl(kotat), to give a birth (skotit; cattle,...)" (Cats (lions) (and NOT "Holy" as is written in Wikipedia) were always sacred animals to Hittites (like the lions before the liongate in Hattuša (Katuša; Kat-deža). - note, that translations of majority of Hittite words are wrong. Hittite writing derived from Akkadian cuneiform, which derived from Sumerian, but Sumerian derived from cuneiform from current Ukraine... more exactly from the area around Kamyana Mohyla("stony mound")...

 

[Theodorik]

Writing invented in Ukraine??????

Your post has no evidence whatsoever to back it up, and is mostly wrong.
You claim that Sumerian cuneiform was invented in Ukraine? You should contact the scholars of the world so they can change their textbooks to reflect your new discovery.

The truth is that the cuneiform was developed in Iraq over a 1,000 year period. This is all documented by archaeology.
It was during the Jemdet Nasr Period that cuneiform evolved http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jemdet_Nasr_period
"Apart from the distinctive pottery, the period is known as one of the formative stages in the development of the cuneiform script. The oldest clay tablets come from Uruk and date to the late fourth millennium BCE, slightly earlier than the Jemdet Nasr period. By the time of the Jemdet Nasr period, the script had already undergone a number of significant changes. The script originally consisted of pictographs but by the time of the Jemdet Nasr period it was already adopting simpler and more abstract designs. It is also during this period that the script acquired its iconic wedge-shaped appearance.^[9] While the language in which these tablets were written cannot be identified with certainty, it is thought to have been Sumerian.^[10"

The world's first writing may have been in the Balkans, around 5600 BC.
"The above mentioned features were shaped on matter, since they were not expressed in written speech. The wooden tablet, with the incised linear symbols, from the lakeside settlement ofDispilio- Kastoria (5260 BC), is likely to be an early form of written speech as conjectured about similar symbols incised on clay, discovered in settlements of the southern Balkans (Vinca culture)."
http://www.ime.gr/chronos/01/en/nl/culture/index.html

Sumerian is a Nostratic language distantly related to some languages spoken in the Caucasus. The nomads who migrated from the Caucasus to Iraq didn't have any written language.

 

[Tomenable]

Interesting thread, thanks! Do you think that there once was a Proto Balto-Slavo-Germanic language?

 

[Sile]

unsure if this is the right thread..........but another link that the vandals where the wendish people

http://www.globalwends.com/uploads/1/3/0/4/13044918/wendish_in_scandinavia.pdf

on another post, it states the wends migrated from Skania in sweden to the german-polish coastal border lands and became the Vandals .....................somewhat later in time, the wendish where associated with the slavs ..............IMO, this is western propaganda to not have wendish associated with western society. I believe the wends where not Slavs, but migrating slavs where given the title of Wends.

-Why does the crown of Sweden still claim Wendish titles?

- Are ancient burgundians before moving to france part of these vandal/wendish group?

- Berber society has 17% of R1a ..............is this a legacy of vandal people?

 

[Yetos]

ok

Romans in Balkans build many cities with name Βεροια (Veroia) Bereya Beroea Beroa VER-

common is first Ber- Ver-
can smoeone explain what that name mean and they use it for cities?
do we find it also in Bergamo or in Verona?

 

[Sile]

ok

Romans in Balkans build many cities with name Βεροια (Veroia) Bereya Beroea Beroa VER-

common is first Ber- Ver-
can smoeone explain what that name mean and they use it for cities?
do we find it also in Bergamo or in Verona?

maybe you will find it in this link


which shows a difference of Gaulish and celtic languages..............since bergamo and verona where settled by gaulish people from 500Bc, maybe they gave the name

http://digilib.phil.muni.cz/bitstream/handle/11222.digilib/114125/N_GraecoLatina_13-2008-1_4.pdf

 

[Yetos]

@ Sile

I read it but I find nothing helpfull, thank you

I am still loking what Ber-Ver as first toponym in Roamn cities mean

 

[Vedun]

Your post has no evidence whatsoever to back it up, and is mostly wrong.
You claim that Sumerian cuneiform was invented in Ukraine? You should contact the scholars of the world so they can change their textbooks to reflect your new discovery.

I think I am a little bit too late... I think somebody already figured that out:



"Danylenko's magnum opus about the site was released posthumously, but it took the publication of Anatoly Kifishin's hefty monograph in 2001 to attract wider attention to Kamenna Mohyla. In this controversial work, Kifishin compared the petroglyphs of Kamenna Mohyla to those of Çatalhöyük and concluded that both were related to the Sumerian cuneiform script. Shortly before his death, Igor Diakonov lashed out against Kifishin's hypothesis (the two openly feuded since the 1960s)."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamyana_Mohyla

Current Turkish language is a "modern Sumerian" language, among Hungarian... But I have found more than 300 similarities between Sumerian-Ukrainian-Slovene-Turkish, which means there was some linguistic contact between these cultures...
For example Sumerian ANZUZU ("spider"). An = "lord" (above; An in Akkadian; "on") or "Him" (H)on / Han (in Swedish for example (He), ő in Hungarian, o in Turkish (onu for "her" (ona in Slavic); so "He" (as exalted; he, as a lord, master) & žuželka, žužek in Slovene, ошибка, жук (zhuk) in Ukrainian as a "beetle" (insect)... so literally "Master of Insects" (like Lion, the master/lord of animals) - Spider... or literally "On-ŽuŽu" (An-zuzu)...

 

[MOESAN]

Vedun , you are very imaginative - is that sufficient to make sure etymologies?
Do you know every different historical evolution of phonetics in every language?

 

[Yetos]

the case of an earlier alphabet is expand in balkans,
many symposium run and many tablets had been found, but seem with few marks,

there the Vinca symbols, the tartaria tablets, the Dispilio tablet,
and many many symbols in Aegean islands dating before 3500.
they can be from decoration, to logo, to letters etc.

yet needs more and more to 'rewrite history'

 

[Vedun]

I have simply wanted to turn everything upside down - whole human history (according to (Abrahamic; Inversion of Brahma) Creationists and official historians) which did not start with "Adam" (Adapa), "Shem", "Ham" but have older origins. Everything was opposite: it came to the Middle east from 'above' (Black sea), from current Ukraine, Siberia, Russia, and even India... including to Egypt. All those names (like Adam(Adapa), Gilgamesh, Abraham, Noah, Jesus, Moses,...) were no real historical people...

Kamyana Mohyla pre 12 000 "BC"

Mohenjo Daro, Harappa...(pre 9000 BCE)

(Note the letter "V" as the name for Taurus - Bull (Veles - Volos - Vol- Vaal (Phoenician Baal; "IH-VV" or IUVV ("YHWH"; where is hidden "Vaal" (Taurus) in the letter W): as horns (V); "VAL-HALA"...

http://www.messagetoeagle.com/mystsignscityofdavid.php#.VCCgD1cqhSo

Vinca writing (pre 6000 "BCE")

The Greek, Latin(Etruscan (Trojan)) alphabet did not derive from Phoenician(old Hebrew) or Sabean (Savean; Shiva)...

 

[MOESAN]

I have simply wanted to turn everything upside down - whole human history (according to (Abrahamic; Inversion of Brahma) Creationists and official historians) which did not start with "Adam" (Adapa), "Shem", "Ham" but have older origins. Everything was opposite: it came to the Middle east from 'above' (Black sea), from current Ukraine, Siberia, Russia, and even India... including to Egypt. All those names (like Adam(Adapa), Gilgamesh, Abraham, Noah, Jesus, Moses,...) were no real historical people...

Kamyana Mohyla pre 12 000 "BC"

Mohenjo Daro, Harappa...(pre 9000 BCE)

(Note the letter "V" as the name for Taurus - Bull (Veles - Volos - Vol- Vaal (Phoenician Baal; "IH-VV" or IUVV ("YHWH"; where is hidden "Vaal" (Taurus) in the letter W): as horns (V); "VAL-HALA"...

http://www.messagetoeagle.com/mystsignscityofdavid.php#.VCCgD1cqhSo

Vinca writing (pre 6000 "BCE")

The Greek, Latin(Etruscan (Trojan)) alphabet did not derive from Phoenician(old Hebrew) or Sabean (Savean; Shiva)...

Vedun, what is the present link between your hazardous hypothesis and this very thread about celtic, germanic, slavic and Co?
Would you not create another threadmore, philosophic-linguistic?
No offense

 

[Vedun]

There was more or less one human language among ancient civilizations, still in 5000 BCE before the Great War (Maha Rata of Maha-bharata) and later this language separated into so called Slavic, Celtic, Greek, German, Latin, Baltic languages... This language was rather closer to old Rig Vedic Sanskrit, Bharatian(Borean) before it started to "mix" and change, transmutate,..
This language influenced even old Sumerian, Etruscan, Akkadian, and Akkadian influenced later Sanskrit, Hittite, Greek...
Turkish & Hungarian languages were indirectly influenced by Sumerian languages which was already transformed, changed language... That's why you will still find so many 'relations' if you will study old Sumerian, Turkish, Hungarian, Sanskrit, Slavic...
I think that the Sumerologists never accepted these linguistic and cultural contacts from the past and consequently transliterated / translated many words incorrectly... through Akkadian, Hebrew and Arabic languages(everything was vice versa). Many words in Hittite (kat; kot; kadish; "hatish") were also wrongly interpreted... City of Kadesh was for example ignorantly and incorrectly transliterated through Hebrew, Q-D-Š, meaning "holy" (hence they never realized the entire root of this word, already includes the name of Hittite(Kati; Hati)... The "old Hebrew" was influenced by Akkadian, which was influenced by language which was closer to "Satem"; for example in Croatian Slavonic and Slovenian Prekmurian as Kaštiga (QSTG; QŠD; QDŠ) (kazen (KZ; KŠD; KDŠ) in official Slovene, kažnja in Croatian, related with English Hate or German Hassen (HT; "KT"; HSN; HTN) - punishment or Qušdu or Kašdu in Akkadian ("holy") or in Sanskrit as karate (kar); "kregati, (o)karati" in Slovene (scold; SQLD)... "a (holy) law which you should have never break" -(obey your parents or god or else you will be "punished"; as demand the Law of Karma (the highest Slovene deity was not Kresnik(Perun, Thor), Svetovid, but an universal law, force called Nikrmana (Nikarmana), which is even above gods themselves and their actions...
The correct meaning for Hittite Kadesh is Hat or Kat-desh or Deza or Dežela ("land" or Semele or Zemla or Žieme or Žeme or Zemlja, etc), or "Land of Hittites" and not 'holy' as it is still believed, instead even this root derives from much older language...

 

[LeBrok]

There was more or less one human language among ancient civilizations, still in 5000 BCE before the Great War (Maha Rata of Maha-bharata) and later separation into so called Slavic, Celtic, Greek, German, Latin, Baltic languages... .

I think you have burned today last shreds of legitimacy of your wild hypothesis.
So when the world was created, 6,000 BCE?

 

[Vedun]

Well according to official (Abrahamic/Biblical) historians the world was created 6000 years ago, indeed. This was the official claim, still in the 19th century "AD"...
Whole history is based on the Bible and Jesuitic sources... Already if you open up a Wikipedia, you will find everything related to 12 tribes of Israel, Ham, Shem and Noah...

 

[LeBrok]

Well according to official (Abrahamic/Biblical) historians the world was created 6000 years ago, indeed. This was the official claim, still in the 18th century "AD"...
Whole history is based on the Bible and Jesuitic sources... Already if you open up a Wikipedia, you will find everything related to 12 tribes of Israel, Ham, Shem and Noah...

I know that, but do you believe in it?